Saw a few units with an agent the other week. Some initial impressions: 1) The selling agent is kind of rude. Scoffed at my questions the whole time. Hope she does not live in the building. 2) Wonderful fit and finish. 3) Overpriced for a coop. Prices same or higher compared to similar new condo developments in the area. This is despite being a coop (the residential part of the "condop" is still a... [more]
Saw a few units with an agent the other week. Some initial impressions:
1) The selling agent is kind of rude. Scoffed at my questions the whole time. Hope she does not live in the building.
2) Wonderful fit and finish.
3) Overpriced for a coop. Prices same or higher compared to similar new condo developments in the area. This is despite being a coop (the residential part of the "condop" is still a coop, no way around that), despite the land-lease, and despite the high maintenance charges. Add to that poor mortgage options (ARM only, from what I could gather) and no tax abatement (which is common in the area).
What gives? My question for the people buying or considering this building: how do you justify the premium price? Common wisdom has it that a coop should be 10-30% under the condo price, especially if it is on the land lease!
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Response by AlessioNYC
about 14 years ago
Posts: 4
Member since: Jan 2011
You can't really compare this property with the ones in the surrounding area. It's not all about the size but more about the quality and location.
First of all, 88 Morninside faces a beautiful park. Buildings in NYC are always more expensive when they sit right next to a park. All of the appliances in the units are from European brands, the light fixtures are from top Italian brands. Not all of the surrounding buildings have a beautiful rooftop with bar and kitchen for private parties. Here you also get storage unit including space to park you bike. Doorman and virtual concierge. Some of the new building in the surrounding area are still using granite counter tops in the kitchen, which i found to be really outdated and old fashion.
You are steps away from Columbia University. What else do you need? :)
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Response by lef2009
about 14 years ago
Posts: 96
Member since: May 2009
I live in the building, so I may be biased, but I must disagree about the prices. I don't know why you imagine a discount is to be expected vs. coop price -- and I don't think the prices are "premium" for a building of this kind and quality. The building has condo-like rules for subletting apartments so I don't see any negatives to the coop status. The land lease should, and does, mean that the prices are lower than comparable units nearby. (The land lease makes the monthly maintenance higher than most (but not all) other new Harlem construction; I think that's reflected in the prices. I think I got more the buck in terms of space, finishes, location and amenities than I would have elsewhere in this chunk of Central Harlem.)
The units left are all 1 BRs and I think they are nicely designed and constructed. Almost all are much more generously sized than most of what is now sold as 1 BRs and the space is very usable.
Finally, I don't know why you imagine that only ARMs are available. There are lots of lenders who have given diverse mortgages (including 30 year fixed mortgages, for the financially conservative among us).
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Response by sledgehammer
about 14 years ago
Posts: 899
Member since: Mar 2009
You are biased indeed! You overpaid and will defend your overpaid investment each time someone will make a realistic statement about the building ...
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Response by kylewest
about 14 years ago
Posts: 4455
Member since: Aug 2007
When does the land lease expire for this building?
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Response by lef2009
about 14 years ago
Posts: 96
Member since: May 2009
There land lease is for 99 years, with a right to renew for another 99. I'm pretty financially conservative, so was initially troubled by the land lease, but I'm ultimately not very concerned about what the building's financial situation will be the 22nd century. Others may, of course, see if differently.
Every time I sit in my living room and look out over Morningside Park or downtown, I'm delighted with my decision.
LEF
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Response by w67thstreet
about 14 years ago
Posts: 9003
Member since: Dec 2008
Testing
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Response by caonima
about 14 years ago
Posts: 815
Member since: Apr 2010
it's overpriced, but where else in harlem is not overpriced?
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Response by buster2056
about 14 years ago
Posts: 866
Member since: Sep 2007
lef2009, even if the land lease is locked into place for 99-198 years, read the fine print about how rent increases are calculated in the lease. It can often be linked to the appreciation in value of the underlying land, so there is much less certainty/predictability about future maintenance.
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Response by aboriginie
about 14 years ago
Posts: 10
Member since: May 2009
The annual increase is
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Response by aboriginie
about 14 years ago
Posts: 10
Member since: May 2009
The annual increase is fixed at 1.5% or 1.75% per year (I don't remember which) for the term of the lease.
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Response by lef2009
about 14 years ago
Posts: 96
Member since: May 2009
Aborigine is correct: 1.75%. If it had been as Buster speculates, I would nor have bought here.
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Response by JGL598
about 14 years ago
Posts: 1
Member since: Dec 2011
I am not sure why there is discussion on the pricing in this building. I have been looking for a place to purchase for about two months now and this building by far seems to be the best bang for the buck. For Harlem, perhaps it is priced slightly high, but you need to consider that you are across from the park and Columbia, the 125th street subway is a 3 minute walk from the building and this is an area that within 10-years these prices will seem like a bargain.
When you consider co-ops on the Upper West Side, Lincoln Square, Hell's Kitchen and Manhattanville are all selling for at least the same price to almost $100k more for a 1-bedroom that are smaller on average by 100 square feet or more, with far fewer perks such as that roof deck/views, storage, laundry in unit and in the basement, gym and media room, door man and a beautiful lobby; not to mention many in the more established areas cannot come close to the finishes in this building for the price. This building starts to look more and more attractive the more you consider comparable units in other areas and what the trends in this part of Harlem are and has actually moved to the #1 spot on my list. I am hoping to make an offer on a 5th floor unit once I get my purchasing partner to come take a look.
So do I think anyone who has purchased in this building has a bias, perhaps, is it warranted, probably if you do your homework and actually compare this to what inventory is on the market and the location compared to many other new construction projects in Harlem is hands down superior.
Just sayin.....
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Response by darkhound
almost 12 years ago
Posts: 16
Member since: Mar 2011
Overpriced? Funny revisiting this now. Based on re-sales , prices are up at least 40% in the last few years. The neighborhood is getting better and better, with many more years of improvement to come. Too bad I didn't have the capital to buy a few more.
You can't really compare this property with the ones in the surrounding area. It's not all about the size but more about the quality and location.
First of all, 88 Morninside faces a beautiful park. Buildings in NYC are always more expensive when they sit right next to a park. All of the appliances in the units are from European brands, the light fixtures are from top Italian brands. Not all of the surrounding buildings have a beautiful rooftop with bar and kitchen for private parties. Here you also get storage unit including space to park you bike. Doorman and virtual concierge. Some of the new building in the surrounding area are still using granite counter tops in the kitchen, which i found to be really outdated and old fashion.
You are steps away from Columbia University. What else do you need? :)
I live in the building, so I may be biased, but I must disagree about the prices. I don't know why you imagine a discount is to be expected vs. coop price -- and I don't think the prices are "premium" for a building of this kind and quality. The building has condo-like rules for subletting apartments so I don't see any negatives to the coop status. The land lease should, and does, mean that the prices are lower than comparable units nearby. (The land lease makes the monthly maintenance higher than most (but not all) other new Harlem construction; I think that's reflected in the prices. I think I got more the buck in terms of space, finishes, location and amenities than I would have elsewhere in this chunk of Central Harlem.)
The units left are all 1 BRs and I think they are nicely designed and constructed. Almost all are much more generously sized than most of what is now sold as 1 BRs and the space is very usable.
Finally, I don't know why you imagine that only ARMs are available. There are lots of lenders who have given diverse mortgages (including 30 year fixed mortgages, for the financially conservative among us).
You are biased indeed! You overpaid and will defend your overpaid investment each time someone will make a realistic statement about the building ...
When does the land lease expire for this building?
There land lease is for 99 years, with a right to renew for another 99. I'm pretty financially conservative, so was initially troubled by the land lease, but I'm ultimately not very concerned about what the building's financial situation will be the 22nd century. Others may, of course, see if differently.
Every time I sit in my living room and look out over Morningside Park or downtown, I'm delighted with my decision.
LEF
Testing
it's overpriced, but where else in harlem is not overpriced?
lef2009, even if the land lease is locked into place for 99-198 years, read the fine print about how rent increases are calculated in the lease. It can often be linked to the appreciation in value of the underlying land, so there is much less certainty/predictability about future maintenance.
The annual increase is
The annual increase is fixed at 1.5% or 1.75% per year (I don't remember which) for the term of the lease.
Aborigine is correct: 1.75%. If it had been as Buster speculates, I would nor have bought here.
I am not sure why there is discussion on the pricing in this building. I have been looking for a place to purchase for about two months now and this building by far seems to be the best bang for the buck. For Harlem, perhaps it is priced slightly high, but you need to consider that you are across from the park and Columbia, the 125th street subway is a 3 minute walk from the building and this is an area that within 10-years these prices will seem like a bargain.
When you consider co-ops on the Upper West Side, Lincoln Square, Hell's Kitchen and Manhattanville are all selling for at least the same price to almost $100k more for a 1-bedroom that are smaller on average by 100 square feet or more, with far fewer perks such as that roof deck/views, storage, laundry in unit and in the basement, gym and media room, door man and a beautiful lobby; not to mention many in the more established areas cannot come close to the finishes in this building for the price. This building starts to look more and more attractive the more you consider comparable units in other areas and what the trends in this part of Harlem are and has actually moved to the #1 spot on my list. I am hoping to make an offer on a 5th floor unit once I get my purchasing partner to come take a look.
So do I think anyone who has purchased in this building has a bias, perhaps, is it warranted, probably if you do your homework and actually compare this to what inventory is on the market and the location compared to many other new construction projects in Harlem is hands down superior.
Just sayin.....
Overpriced? Funny revisiting this now. Based on re-sales , prices are up at least 40% in the last few years. The neighborhood is getting better and better, with many more years of improvement to come. Too bad I didn't have the capital to buy a few more.