Chelsea - far west teens

Pros - proximity to Highline, Chelsea Market, Chelsea Piers, Equinox, the playground on 22nd & 10th for the kids, the Waterside Park.....

Cons -- housing projects all around you (and potentially along your path to/from home), distance to the the subway.

I've lived in this general area for 5 years -- three years right off of 10th and two between 8th/9th. I like 8th/9th much better. It's quieter, prettier, and feels significantly closer to everything (especially when freezing cold).

You're a minimum 8-block walk from the nearest subway.

And it's a brutally cold walk in the winter, with the wind gusting off the river.

Aside from that, it's really a great area (if you can overlook the projects on Ninth Avenue).

Why is the proximity to the Highline a "pro"?

High Line noise as a negative?

Also, we work with some Google clients (our office is on 16th) and it just feels like that company keeps growing and growing, spitting out more employees who want to walk to work, with developers trying to respond to that (like Sam Zell with the new rental building on Tenth and 23rd).

So I would say the unmentioned negative for Tenth Ave. is increasing density. I'd predict that the area is much more crowded in five years than it is now.

ali r.
DG Neary Realty

how bad are those projects on 9th?

And literally right next to the HUD housing projects are condos that start at $2 million......it's a mixed neighborhood. These projects are also very well-kept, no more trash than any other part of the city, and not a lot of people "hanging out", unless you count the little kids and their parents in the play areas. The HUD housing projects also have very strict requirements regarding, shall we say, "personal conduct". Violators are thrown out.

nycREjunkie, it's a much more interesting area to live than Central Park West in the 60s and 70s.

Subways are on Eighth Avenue and 14th Street, with entrances up to 16th Street, buses on 9th, and crosstown of course on 14th & 23rd Streets.

I agree with lad that 8th/9th is prettier and feels closer to everything, and I also agree with front_porch that 10th is getting more & more crowded.

I would say the proximity to the Highline is a "pro" if you enjoy hanging out in lovely parks, doing whatever people like to do in lovely parks.....people watch, picnic, read, etc.

The High Line is an elevated Sidewalk to Nowhere that for some reason attracts throngs of tourists.

Huge "con".

i'm surprised to hear that 8th/9th avenues are prettier, quieter, nicer than 10th. Closer proximity to Highline, Chelsea Piers and West Side Hway riverfront park seem better than the big name stores closer to 6th ave. Distance to transportation certainly a big hangup especially as many pointed out during the colder, wetter months.

It's a pretty park, with great views, views which change with every step you take. I stay away from it during "peak" times because I don't like the crowds, but during off-peak it's a beautiful and relaxing place to hang out.

Your mileage may vary. But the High Line is probably one of the most interesting parks in the city, and that's precisely why there are crowds.

Weeds along an elevated sidewalk do not a "park" make.

I think 8th & 9th just "feel" closer to action, and I'm not talking about the big stores on 6th. (Ugh.) I think it's just perception, daz'all.

As I've said, I like the High Line (even though I don't go there much), Chelsea Piers is amazing, and the West Side riverfront park is also fabulous. If you like to commute by bike, even better. The Chelsea Market is a great place for food shopping ---- the grocery store in there rivals the Greenmarket for varied fresh produce, and the prices are fantastic. I can't even begin to mention all the restaurants along 9th & 10th.

I'm also surprised nobody's mentioned the Chelsea art galleries as a plus, although I suppose even one or two people might call that a con ("big spaces with weird objects and paintings that for some reason attract throngs of art lovers.....huge con")

;)

"The Chelsea Market is a great place for food shopping ---- the grocery store in there rivals the Greenmarket for varied fresh produce, and the prices are fantastic."

I guess they're "fantastic" compared to prices at the airport in Honolulu ...

I lived on West 22nd between 9th and 10th for over 10 years, even in the 80's those projects were never an issue for us. (father in law bought the brownstone in 1959, I lived there from around 81-91; kids continued living there with their mom after that.

You get used to the walk to the train it really was a non-issue for us, but I'm a walker. On nicer days I would even walk to West Village Nursery to pick the kids up, it's a pleasant walk in such a lively neighborhood.

The Chelsea Market is also a big plus for killing a few hours with the kids or just great food shopping. Also an easy stroll to Chelsea piers.

My main concern would be what I would have to pay to live there (:

Keith Burkhardt
The Burkhardt Group

I would agree with KeithB, the projects aren't even an issue. It's not until somebody mentions it that it even registers with me.

NYCMatt, do you even know the name of the store in Chelsea Market that I'm talking about? Without googling it, I mean. Not sure why you'd have any idea anyway......if you live in Ft. Greene, why on earth would you be shopping at the Chelsea Market, and then schlepping groceries back on the BQE?

Why would I ever live in Fort Greene?

Re: The distance from Eighth Avenue to Tenth Avenue is EIGHT BLOCKS.

Actually, it's EXACTLY .33 miles from 8th Ave to 10th Ave which is 6.6 normal city blocks @ 20 blocks/mile.

Chelsea market retail list. Also if you love to cook/eat Italian, Buon Italia is like shopping in Roma! Cao.
http://chelseamarket.com/retail/

So there you go.

Minimum 8-block walk to the subway, allowing for the 6-and-change walk east, and the handful of blocks north/south.

The M23 and M14 are both crazy slow. Most days I could walk faster than those buses.

10th to 8th is not terrible if you're on the east side of 10th, but if you're on the west side of 10th, you have to cross three avenue blocks to get on the uptown subway. That can take 10 minutes.

10th Ave to 7th or 6th can take up to 15 minutes, even for a fast walker, depending on traffic lights and also sidewalk traffic. Forget about the M23 or M14. Most days I can walk faster than those buses.

my friend who has lived on the sem block fo 10 yrs has said the highline marks the top for Chelsea--neighborhood's gone full-cycle--soon to be a la soho--really a mall/tourist commerce zone than anything else--the traffic and hordes of fanny-pack wearing tourists have already invaded, and the chain stores are moving in

Well, Matt, I arbitrarily put in 100 east 56th street to 500 west 19th street on Google maps. 19th is BTW the farthest you can get from the E-line in this scenario. It says the e train would take 27 minutes. With NO transfers.

168th and Broadway, where you live, would take 30 or 31 minutes, WITH a transfer.

"The distance from Eighth Avenue to Tenth Avenue is EIGHT BLOCKS."

I think you may need to rethink your understanding of the word "block". Here we go:

"a group of buildings in a city bounded by intersecting streets on each side"

So the "distance" from tenth avenue to eighth avenue is by definition only two blocks. Now, you seem to be arguing that this is a comparable difference to travelling north/south eight streets. As West34 points out even that's not true; to the extent it was, you're conflating a measure of distance and another measure in a not particularly helpful-to-understand-your-point kind of way.

Matt's method of expressing his point may not be clear, but IMO (as someone who lived on 10th Ave) he does have a point. Crossing avenue blocks is oftentimes a lot harder / more time-consuming than crossing street blocks. If you add in that adjustment factor, I think it can be the equivalent of eight blocks, maybe more. I used to walk from 10th to 8th followed by eight street blocks everyday for work. The two segments of the walk were pretty much equal.

It's a great neighborhood, don't get me wrong, but if you need anything other than the C or E, the subway will feel like a hike.

Yet matt lives in Washington Heights, and TOP works in midtown east. I am 90% certain there is NO location mid-town east that is CLOSER for Matt than to TOP's area of interest.

Matt always shits on other areas, but neglects to note the dung in his own backyard.

avenues typically count as 2 blocks. I live near tenth and take the c/e everywhere. It's a great line and there's tons going on in the neighborhood. I use the highline all the time, lounging on thedoublewide benches, eat at chelsea market, go to galleries and ride my bike up and down the hudson river park.
the projects are a non-issue. Not like the ones in Brooklyn. Different family dynamic.

i prefer west 50's as the gay pop per sq ft is nearly double due to the density which makes for easier grindr hookups

..that said projects are no issue at all as the area's so gentrified if you ever feel threatened by people hangin on stoops you're half a block to the rest of ohio uni alum..

..agree with above post that highline is more of a tourist trap now (good for surrounding biz, for charm??) than a 'quiet neighborhood backyard' to meet dudes when the wife's asleep..take that as pro or con.. galleries remain empty tho (i'd take that as a pro)

"Well, Matt, I arbitrarily put in 100 east 56th street to 500 west 19th street on Google maps. 19th is BTW the farthest you can get from the E-line in this scenario. It says the e train would take 27 minutes. With NO transfers.

168th and Broadway, where you live, would take 30 or 31 minutes, WITH a transfer."

***

Why would I ever take the E, when the A stops at 16th Street ... with NO transfer?

I'm going to guess that it's because the A doesn't go anywhere near 100 E. 56th Street and the E does.

Actually, it does; 59th Street/Columbus Circle. Entrance on 57th Street.

Well, according to NYCMattMath, that is something like 20 blocks from 100 E. 56th. If you wouldn't want to walk eight blocks, I don't know why you'd want to walk twenty.

In any case, the answer to your original question is obvious--the E goes much closer to the desired destination and has a greater frequency at the expense of making an extra stop at 23rd street. I suspect it's faster to take the E than the A on the routing in question something like 99% of the time, so that's why Jason (and Google maps) suggested it.

I'm missing the significance of the random address of 100 East 56th Street ...

That's the address that Jason arbitrarily chose as representative of Midtown East. The general point is "there's a train that goes to Chelsea that also goes to Midtown East; there is no train that goes to Washington Heights that also goes to Midtown East."

More importantly, even if we chose 1 E 59th Street, which would be the most favorable possible address as a comparison point to Washington Heights, it would be a shorter commute to live in far west Chelsea than Washington Heights.

Washington Heights = the Formica of Manhattan neighborhoods

Right, but Washington Heights is a heck of a lot cheaper than far West Chelsea. Plenty of people choose to live farther out for a less expensive housing cost.

With far West Chelsea, the choice is to live farther out AND pay top dollar real estate prices. There are many pluses to the neighborhood that could potentially offset this for the right buyer, but the fact remains that you are very far from a subway given the price premium.

i live in far west chelsea and find it incredibly convenient to everywhere but the upper east side. I do venture mush north of there anyway.
The C/E takes you to Columbis circle, midtown fifth ave, west 4th. Easy to get cross town trains on 14th st, 42nd st.
Great hood if u can afford it.

"Great hood if u can afford it."

It's not particularly expensive, just not a very good *value*

There's a difference.

Highline certainly adds a whole lot, neighborhood will get better.

But I just do not want to be trapped on the other side of the projects from where most everything else is...

Matt you dummy, TOP says he works mid-town east.

"...work midtown East...."

Well there you go.

He needs to find a job that's not on the East Side.

Anybody know where NYCMatt lives? He complains about every part of the city and every building in the city. Sounds to me like a guy who lives in Jersey and is jealous of NYC residents. I'm just saying...

Re: Anybody know where NYCMatt lives?

Apparently, Matt:

- lives in Washington Heights
- in a building where tipping is not allowed but there's only one staff member
- sits on the coop board and routinely rejects applicants with better financials than his own
- has his building bricks repointed at three times the frequency the industry recommends
- loves formica countertops
- is proud of his repro Stickley furniture
- is an expert on just about everything
- has negative things to say about every neighborhood south of 96th street
- is gay

You are wrong west 34. He hates Harlem and East Harlem too.

Also, you should mention that he hates open kitchens. He would not therefore move into say this

http://www.elliman.com/new-york-city/manhattan/chelsea/252-west-30th-street--3ab---art-deco-condo/ycztyar

or this.

http://www.corcoran.com/property/listing.aspx?Region=NYC&listingid=2246792

Well, I don't know if Matt would or wouldn't like 252 W 30 but I can tell you I couldn't imagine spending over $3.5MM to live a block from Penn Station and the Post Office. Disgusting, horrible, dirty, crowded, ugly, inconvenient to anything I'd feel like walking a couple blocks to. Are you kidding me? Reminds me of the Onyx. Anyway, what was this argument about, again?

well. this is my type of place. except the bathroom. love it.
i could imagine buying it. people who cannot probably cannot afford it anyway.seems obvious too.
so what's the point again?

>jason10006
about 6 hours ago
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You are wrong west 34. He hates Harlem and East Harlem too.

Jason, didn't you make the racist statement that Harlem is now more safe because it is more diverse now?

>
West34

about 6 hours ago

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Re: Anybody know where NYCMatt lives?

Apparently, Matt:

- lives in Washington Heights
- in a building where tipping is not allowed but there's only one staff member
- sits on the coop board and routinely rejects applicants with better financials than his own
- has his building bricks repointed at three times the frequency the industry recommends
- loves formica countertops
- is proud of his repro Stickley furniture
- is an expert on just about everything
- has negative things to say about every neighborhood south of 96th street
- is gay

- has an overly sensitive body clock
- hates all employers
- demands triple penalty overtime pay for just doing his job
- either has a bad credit score or is supportive of bad credit scores

"Anybody know where NYCMatt lives? He complains about every part of the city and every building in the city. Sounds to me like a guy who lives in Jersey and is jealous of NYC residents. I'm just saying..."

I have lived all over the city actually -- and never in New Jersey.

I hardly complain about "every" part of the city -- just the butt-ugly and insanely inconvenient parts (Williamsburg immediately comes to mind -- and yes, I've lived there). And the only buildings I complain about are the ones that are overpriced.

...and has a congenital inability to laugh, has no children, and is probably the angriest person in NYC

"...and has a congenital inability to laugh, has no children, and is probably the angriest person in NYC"

Wrong.

Wrong.

And wrong.

"I hardly complain about "every" part of the city -- just the butt-ugly and insanely inconvenient parts (Williamsburg immediately comes to mind "

NYCmatt -- What is inconvenient about WB? Is it relative depending on how close to the subway you are? I am moving out of manhattan i think...too expensive.

On paper, Williamsburg looks really convenient.

In practice, it's not.

First of all, it's not convenient to the rest of Brooklyn. The "G" train is an absolute joke. If you want to get from Williamsburg to Brooklyn Heights ... DUMBO ... Park Slope ... or just about anywhere else in Brooklyn, it's quicker to take the L back into Manhattan, then transfer back INTO Brooklyn. Quicker, but still an enormous waste of time.

It's also not convenient to any part of Manhattan that's not directly inside the 14th Street corridor. Midtown. Downtown. Uptown. Unless you're convenient to the J/M/Z line (which in itself is still not all that convenient), your only escape from Hell is the "L" train (itself short for "Hell"), and you will always be TWO trains away from everything.

Your life will always be about the damn 14th Street Transfer. ALWAYS.

When I moved out of Williamsburg it honestly felt like I got my life back. I emerged from the subway in Brooklyn Heights ... saw the sign over the subway entrance showing SEVEN subway lines ... and actually wet myself a little, knowing I was now in Subway Heaven.

By the way, if you think Manhattan is too expensive, Williamsburg won't be much better. Despite it's insanely inconvenient location, it's filth, stench, and butt-ugly "architecture" (I'm using the term loosely here), the prices in Williamsburg for some reason unknown to even the greatest minds of the 21st Century are almost the same.

Re: Williamsburg butt-ugly "architecture"

so Formica countertops are beautiful and cool but vinyl siding isn't?

Yes. You're finally catching on.

Williamsburg would be convenient if you work along the L- or J/M lines. In many places, far more convenient than Washington Heights.

Say you worked on literal Wall Street - J would be way faster than the fastest express train from 168th. If you worked at Google, either the L or the M. And if you are the type who loves going out in the East village (which many do) Washington Heights would be hell.

And so forth.

As usual, Matt assumes everyone likes or needs to go to the exact same places he does.

"Williamsburg would be convenient if you work along the L- or J/M lines. In many places, far more convenient than Washington Heights."

Right.

7% of Manhattan is "convenient" to Williamsburg, while 75% is convenient to Washington Heights.

Depending on where in WB, a morning subway commute (or for that matter now ferry commute) could be more convenient and faster for BPC, Fidi, Chinatown, LES, Little Italy, the EV, GV, and Gramercy. It may or may not for Chelsea, Murry Hill, Mid-town East.

That is not 7% versus 75%.

>When I moved out of Williamsburg it honestly felt like I got my life back.

If NYC Transit paid your triple penalty overtime, would you have overlooked the loss of your life?