277 West End Avenue (Viewest) #6C Coop, seven rooms: 3BR/2BA + Maid’s BR & 1/2 bath Asks $3,495,000 Maint.:$3,530 This classic seven last came to market in summer 2008 with an offering that was aspirational even by bubble standards. Despite needing extensive renovation, the apartment was priced at $2.995MM. The collapse of Lehman in October triggered a $500K cut. The listing moved from Orsid... [more]
277 West End Avenue (Viewest) #6C
Coop, seven rooms: 3BR/2BA + Maid’s BR & 1/2 bath
Asks $3,495,000 Maint.:$3,530
This classic seven last came to market in summer 2008 with an offering that was aspirational even by bubble standards. Despite needing extensive renovation, the apartment was priced at $2.995MM. The collapse of Lehman in October triggered a $500K cut. The listing moved from Orsid to Corcoran, was chopped two more times, and finally closed in August 2009 for $1.865MM. That sale was tagged in hindsight as a "best buy" by some astute posters - though not by me - on the "Ones that got away" thread:
http://streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/22052-ones-that-got-away-best-buys-from-the-crash?page=2
Now #6C is back, and quite a lot has changed. The new owners have combined the kitchen and dining room into an open, modern, well-equipped family "hub", with impressive appliances and ventilation, new floors and excellent storage. The maid's room is now a home office, with a modern half-bath and laundry. Thermostats control through-wall AC. Steel doorframes have been stripped and restored. Original floors have been refinished with a dark stain in the gallery and living room, and covered with neutral carpeting in the bedroom wing. A sound system has been added to the public spaces. All three bedrooms have upgraded storage, and the master suite is enhanced by a comfortable dressing area.
On the other hand, some salient features haven't changed. First, the main bathrooms are original. Although they are in generally good condition, they stick out in an apartment that has been thoroughly modernized and priced accordingly. Another unchanged - and sadly unchangeable - feature is the view. The living room and the two biggest bedrooms face north toward Schwab House. There's some reflected light, but the view is more characteristic of Amsterdam Avenue in the 90s than West End in the 70s. In a neighborhood where almost every featured line (six rooms or larger) looks out on handsome pre-war facades and brownstones, a view of charmless modern brick is a major demerit. The remaining rooms face an interior court, with no views and limited light.
The asking price for #6C fairly reflects 2011 sales of renovated seven-room apartments in a sought-after area. What it may not reflect are the drawbacks of this line and a softening in this market sector that seems to have begun in the second half of the year. There are certainly buyers for a family-friendly seven in this area, but I think this one appraises well below $3.5MM, especially with the 2009 sale so fresh in the public record.
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Response by bramstar
almost 14 years ago
Posts: 1909
Member since: May 2008
Ugh. Bad choice on the multi-color mosaic backsplash. Looks dated already and any potential buyer is going to want a discount for having to rip that out and start fresh. Also, the 'family hub' you mention may be a plus for some but is a potential deal-killer for those seeking a true classic 7 with a separate dining room.
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Response by AvUWS
almost 14 years ago
Posts: 839
Member since: Mar 2008
So do they make it all back? I hope they were living in it/enjoying it during that time.
Carrying costs of 30 months so far at some $11,000/month (assuming 25% mortgage), maybe another 6 months before it is sold. How much for the renovation, $200,000, $400,000? (I don't know these things.)
If it sells for $3 mill they might still make a couple of $100,000 after closing costs, but it sounds like a lot of trouble to go through all that unless you did it for the sake of living there.
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Response by West81st
almost 14 years ago
Posts: 5564
Member since: Jan 2008
Bramstar: Agreed. There might be ways to appoint the foyer to make it work better for formal dining. Unfortunately, you might have to move walls and shrink the third BR to get the dimensions right. One fundamental problem with this line, IMO, is that over 250 square feet are consumed by a foyer and gallery that can't be used for very much.
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Response by nyc10023
almost 14 years ago
Posts: 7614
Member since: Nov 2008
Interesting. I saw both 12MC and 6C at 277, as estate wrecks. I see the extra-wide foyer as a plus - it's gracious and you get the "I have space to waste" feel that you don't get in more economically laid out apartments. And we have a piano, so it's easy for us to visualize how to use that space.
Bathrooms are hard to renovate - when I tried to picture how I would redo the baths at 6C, the best I could come up with that would be reasonably neutral would be a brand-new facsimile of the old, which begs the point of why not keep the original?
Have yet to fine-tune my thoughts about 277 as I haven't seen the A-line which is an 8-room.
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Response by bramstar
almost 14 years ago
Posts: 1909
Member since: May 2008
A large foyer can be a real plus for those who collect art. No windows = excellent conditions for paintings and works on paper.
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Response by nyc10023
almost 14 years ago
Posts: 7614
Member since: Nov 2008
Would also compare this to the 7-room listing at 270WEA requiring work (no board approval).
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Response by West81st
almost 14 years ago
Posts: 5564
Member since: Jan 2008
10023: Yes - pick your poison: views vs. condition and noise. Personally, I'd take 270 and put money in the renovation budget for really good windows.
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Response by nyc10023
almost 14 years ago
Posts: 7614
Member since: Nov 2008
Noise? From WEA?
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Response by West81st
almost 14 years ago
Posts: 5564
Member since: Jan 2008
Busy intersection a half block away, low floor. I haven't seen the apartment yet, so it's just an educated guess.
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Response by West81st
almost 14 years ago
Posts: 5564
Member since: Jan 2008
Update on 277 WEA #6C: Reduced $445K, to $3.05MM. The new ask seems to suggest that the sellers aren't interested in offers south of $3MM... yet.
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Response by Brooks2
almost 14 years ago
Posts: 2970
Member since: Aug 2011
"yet"
luv it
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Response by bramstar
almost 14 years ago
Posts: 1909
Member since: May 2008
>>The new ask seems to suggest that the sellers aren't interested in offers south of $3MM... yet.<<
Then they are delusional fools.
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Response by bramstar
almost 14 years ago
Posts: 1909
Member since: May 2008
By the way, I see this one selling in the $2.3-4 range. Perhaps if they are *very* lucky they could push it slightly higher. But that seems extremely unlikely given the numerous unchangeable negatives that even a top-quality reno cannot overcome.
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Response by West81st
almost 14 years ago
Posts: 5564
Member since: Jan 2008
I can't be sure they're dug in north of $3MM. It just seems like a reasonable inference. If the sellers wanted to reach the sub-$3MM buyer pool, I think the new ask would be in the 2.9s. Their broker is good, and I'm sure she knows the signal that a $3.05MM ask sends.
As for where this one will ultimately trade: Bramstar's $2.3xMM prediction might be a little low, but it's a lot easier to defend than the original ask, which was nutty.
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Response by nyc10023
almost 14 years ago
Posts: 7614
Member since: Nov 2008
If this sale is a flip (also see 240 WEA, 13A & 13B), they should have priced it aggressively at 2.495 out of the gate. FSBO. This doesn't strike me as a difficult board.
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Response by bramstar
almost 14 years ago
Posts: 1909
Member since: May 2008
West81st--with the relatively high maintenance and lack of view/light do you think this could achieve more than $2.3, $2.4? Even considering the reno (which will not be to everyone's taste and is starting to look like yesterday's trend, as I mentioned in an above post)?
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Response by NYCmodern
almost 14 years ago
Posts: 100
Member since: Dec 2011
Despite the view, this is my dream apartment. I used to live right on that block and absolutely love the location and would give my right arm for such a beautiful 3 bedroom apartment! But alas, my current mortgage and maintenance is approximately the amount of the maintenance on this unit so I have to just keep dreaming.
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Response by nyc10023
almost 14 years ago
Posts: 7614
Member since: Nov 2008
Bram: because of the way taxes are assessed, maintenance is not out of whack. Bldgs 20+ blocks uptown benefit from much lower taxes. If you have time to dig into this, figure out what your taxes are per sqft compared to 277.
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Response by nyc10023
over 13 years ago
Posts: 7614
Member since: Nov 2008
6C in contract. Bated breath to see closing price. Any guesses?
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Response by kylewest
over 13 years ago
Posts: 4455
Member since: Aug 2007
Just comment on design. Overall not bad. Too bad kitchen doesnt have higher end inset drawers and cabinet doors. The gold tile part og the mosaic is too prrsonal-- many wont like it. Also too much tile. Rug should be large enough so furniture all sits atop it so livingroom rug here is too small. Also track lighting is a miserable choice imo--always. No one prefers it-- its a compromise and at $3 mm i wouldnt have it. Layout is decent. Enough room to play with it a little. Oh to have a classic 6 or 7. One day...
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Response by Truth
over 13 years ago
Posts: 5641
Member since: Dec 2009
...and yours will be beautiful kyle!
Where's ph41 to demand that you post photos of your apt?
She owes se discussion threads photos of her apt. "It's only decent, brave and fair thing to do...blah ,blah, blah..."
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Response by bela
over 13 years ago
Posts: 183
Member since: Jul 2008
Apartment 15C is a much better apartment than 6C in my opinion. 6C is dark and will always be dark. 15C clears Schwab.
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Response by Fairway
over 13 years ago
Posts: 156
Member since: Feb 2011
Funny pricing in this building. 15C for $2.6, this one for just over $3, and 8B, which looks very unfortunately decorated and not much bigger, asking almost $4 million
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Response by Truth
over 13 years ago
Posts: 5641
Member since: Dec 2009
The penthouse hypocrite still owes se discussions photos of her apt.
You can say more than describing it as "unfortunately decorated",Fairway.
If you want to.
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Response by West81st
over 13 years ago
Posts: 5564
Member since: Jan 2008
Fairway/Bela: And now #15C is down to $2.499MM, although SE doesn't show the reduction yet.
Have you seen #15C? I missed the open house. It's unusual for a listing to tout a high-end 90s renovation AND say the apartment needs TLC. With no pictures to go on, my guess would be that the reno is very taste-specific.
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Response by West81st
over 13 years ago
Posts: 5564
Member since: Jan 2008
Fairway: #8B seems to have gotten the message: reduced $400K, which qualifies as progress.
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Response by Fairway
over 13 years ago
Posts: 156
Member since: Feb 2011
Still paying $1.1 to look at West End instead of seeing Schwab House
Now they have a nice classic 6 there for almost $2.8 as well
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Response by jag74
over 13 years ago
Posts: 0
Member since: Aug 2012
6C sold for 2.82
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Response by West81st
over 13 years ago
Posts: 5564
Member since: Jan 2008
Update: #6C closed on 07/30/2012 for $2,812,500.
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Response by uwsbeagle
over 13 years ago
Posts: 285
Member since: Feb 2012
West81: and what's your verdict on the price? Fair, low, or high?
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Response by bela
over 13 years ago
Posts: 183
Member since: Jul 2008
west 81st do u know what 6d sold for?
the price for 6c i think is HIGH
bathrooms not done, totally dark and open kitchen is taste specific
location is great though
15c needs major cosmetic work, i would not ccall it total gut b/c it was totally gutted before so assume electric and plumbing is new
uwsbeagle: Anything between $2.5MM and $2.9MM would be pretty easy to defend, based on the scarcity of sevens in this location. Market movement since the 2009 sale gets you to around $2.2MM, and the renovation had to be worth something, once they found a buyer with compatible tastes.
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Response by bela
over 13 years ago
Posts: 183
Member since: Jul 2008
6c I would think that renovating bathrooms would be a better way to spend money than all the speakers and technology. i hate the asthetics of speakers in prewar. i also think window ac's are totally fine in prewar.
just my 2 cents
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Response by w67thstreet
over 13 years ago
Posts: 9003
Member since: Dec 2008
$2.8MM, what a terrible investment for the buyers.. the sellers also missed out on the sprint 120% run up.
The sellers if they sold earlier could be up $2.5MM if they had cut it and run 5 months earlier and the buyers could've been up to $5.6MM and looking for a REAL home on the UWS instead of this POS unit for $2.8MM....
The insanity of the NYC RE re geniuses never ceases to impress w67.
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Ugh. Bad choice on the multi-color mosaic backsplash. Looks dated already and any potential buyer is going to want a discount for having to rip that out and start fresh. Also, the 'family hub' you mention may be a plus for some but is a potential deal-killer for those seeking a true classic 7 with a separate dining room.
So do they make it all back? I hope they were living in it/enjoying it during that time.
Carrying costs of 30 months so far at some $11,000/month (assuming 25% mortgage), maybe another 6 months before it is sold. How much for the renovation, $200,000, $400,000? (I don't know these things.)
If it sells for $3 mill they might still make a couple of $100,000 after closing costs, but it sounds like a lot of trouble to go through all that unless you did it for the sake of living there.
Bramstar: Agreed. There might be ways to appoint the foyer to make it work better for formal dining. Unfortunately, you might have to move walls and shrink the third BR to get the dimensions right. One fundamental problem with this line, IMO, is that over 250 square feet are consumed by a foyer and gallery that can't be used for very much.
Interesting. I saw both 12MC and 6C at 277, as estate wrecks. I see the extra-wide foyer as a plus - it's gracious and you get the "I have space to waste" feel that you don't get in more economically laid out apartments. And we have a piano, so it's easy for us to visualize how to use that space.
Bathrooms are hard to renovate - when I tried to picture how I would redo the baths at 6C, the best I could come up with that would be reasonably neutral would be a brand-new facsimile of the old, which begs the point of why not keep the original?
Have yet to fine-tune my thoughts about 277 as I haven't seen the A-line which is an 8-room.
A large foyer can be a real plus for those who collect art. No windows = excellent conditions for paintings and works on paper.
Would also compare this to the 7-room listing at 270WEA requiring work (no board approval).
10023: Yes - pick your poison: views vs. condition and noise. Personally, I'd take 270 and put money in the renovation budget for really good windows.
Noise? From WEA?
Busy intersection a half block away, low floor. I haven't seen the apartment yet, so it's just an educated guess.
Update on 277 WEA #6C: Reduced $445K, to $3.05MM. The new ask seems to suggest that the sellers aren't interested in offers south of $3MM... yet.
"yet"
luv it
>>The new ask seems to suggest that the sellers aren't interested in offers south of $3MM... yet.<<
Then they are delusional fools.
By the way, I see this one selling in the $2.3-4 range. Perhaps if they are *very* lucky they could push it slightly higher. But that seems extremely unlikely given the numerous unchangeable negatives that even a top-quality reno cannot overcome.
I can't be sure they're dug in north of $3MM. It just seems like a reasonable inference. If the sellers wanted to reach the sub-$3MM buyer pool, I think the new ask would be in the 2.9s. Their broker is good, and I'm sure she knows the signal that a $3.05MM ask sends.
As for where this one will ultimately trade: Bramstar's $2.3xMM prediction might be a little low, but it's a lot easier to defend than the original ask, which was nutty.
If this sale is a flip (also see 240 WEA, 13A & 13B), they should have priced it aggressively at 2.495 out of the gate. FSBO. This doesn't strike me as a difficult board.
West81st--with the relatively high maintenance and lack of view/light do you think this could achieve more than $2.3, $2.4? Even considering the reno (which will not be to everyone's taste and is starting to look like yesterday's trend, as I mentioned in an above post)?
Despite the view, this is my dream apartment. I used to live right on that block and absolutely love the location and would give my right arm for such a beautiful 3 bedroom apartment! But alas, my current mortgage and maintenance is approximately the amount of the maintenance on this unit so I have to just keep dreaming.
Bram: because of the way taxes are assessed, maintenance is not out of whack. Bldgs 20+ blocks uptown benefit from much lower taxes. If you have time to dig into this, figure out what your taxes are per sqft compared to 277.
6C in contract. Bated breath to see closing price. Any guesses?
Just comment on design. Overall not bad. Too bad kitchen doesnt have higher end inset drawers and cabinet doors. The gold tile part og the mosaic is too prrsonal-- many wont like it. Also too much tile. Rug should be large enough so furniture all sits atop it so livingroom rug here is too small. Also track lighting is a miserable choice imo--always. No one prefers it-- its a compromise and at $3 mm i wouldnt have it. Layout is decent. Enough room to play with it a little. Oh to have a classic 6 or 7. One day...
...and yours will be beautiful kyle!
Where's ph41 to demand that you post photos of your apt?
She owes se discussion threads photos of her apt. "It's only decent, brave and fair thing to do...blah ,blah, blah..."
Apartment 15C is a much better apartment than 6C in my opinion. 6C is dark and will always be dark. 15C clears Schwab.
Funny pricing in this building. 15C for $2.6, this one for just over $3, and 8B, which looks very unfortunately decorated and not much bigger, asking almost $4 million
The penthouse hypocrite still owes se discussions photos of her apt.
You can say more than describing it as "unfortunately decorated",Fairway.
If you want to.
Fairway/Bela: And now #15C is down to $2.499MM, although SE doesn't show the reduction yet.
Have you seen #15C? I missed the open house. It's unusual for a listing to tout a high-end 90s renovation AND say the apartment needs TLC. With no pictures to go on, my guess would be that the reno is very taste-specific.
Fairway: #8B seems to have gotten the message: reduced $400K, which qualifies as progress.
Still paying $1.1 to look at West End instead of seeing Schwab House
Now they have a nice classic 6 there for almost $2.8 as well
6C sold for 2.82
Update: #6C closed on 07/30/2012 for $2,812,500.
West81: and what's your verdict on the price? Fair, low, or high?
west 81st do u know what 6d sold for?
the price for 6c i think is HIGH
bathrooms not done, totally dark and open kitchen is taste specific
location is great though
15c needs major cosmetic work, i would not ccall it total gut b/c it was totally gutted before so assume electric and plumbing is new
it is in better shape than 6c was for sure
Bela: #6D sold in May 2010 for $2.1MM. The transaction doesn't appear on SE because the transaction was recorded in ACRIS as a "Contract of Sale" rather than the usual tax filing:
http://a836-acris.nyc.gov/Scripts/DocSearch.dll/Detail?Doc_ID=2010052100880001
uwsbeagle: Anything between $2.5MM and $2.9MM would be pretty easy to defend, based on the scarcity of sevens in this location. Market movement since the 2009 sale gets you to around $2.2MM, and the renovation had to be worth something, once they found a buyer with compatible tastes.
6c I would think that renovating bathrooms would be a better way to spend money than all the speakers and technology. i hate the asthetics of speakers in prewar. i also think window ac's are totally fine in prewar.
just my 2 cents
$2.8MM, what a terrible investment for the buyers.. the sellers also missed out on the sprint 120% run up.
The sellers if they sold earlier could be up $2.5MM if they had cut it and run 5 months earlier and the buyers could've been up to $5.6MM and looking for a REAL home on the UWS instead of this POS unit for $2.8MM....
The insanity of the NYC RE re geniuses never ceases to impress w67.