Anybody have thoughts about 470 Convent HDFC?

I have only viewed 470 via the online postings- so I am not certain how helpful my post might be to you. I have been an owner of a market rate condo in Hamilton Heights for nearly 6 years now. I also have 2 close friends interested in buying an HDFC apartment in Harlem (one likely to buy in Hamilton Heights specifically). Long term I am extremely bullish on Hamilton Heights, although I am less certain about the shorter term prospects. In the last 2 weeks alone I have heard rumors of a Duane Reade and a craft beer bar coming into the neighborhood.

I haven't mentioned 470 Convent to either of my friends for simple reasons personal to each of their searches. One friend is looking for a larger apartment (these aren't small- but she wants larger) and she wants the original pre-war details- even if it means buying an estate condition apartment(plus she has her heart set on one particular building that has low turnover and she is patient enough to wait it out). The other friend is looking for a lower price point. While the asking prices at 470 seem reasonable, the monthly maintenance seems a bit high. I suspect this is because of an underlying mortgage, but I am sure you are better informed than I am on this aspect. The apartments seem to be well laid out. As with any apartment, and more specifically any HDFC building, be sure to fully understand the drawbacks of an HDFC because few brokers or buyers truly understand them.

if there are > 60% original owners in an HDFC, avoid it for any chance

caonima -- why is it bad that >60% are original owners? Is that in general or just for coops that were coverted recently? (Looks like it was converted in 2009)

Semerun--Thanks for the thoughtful assessment. Hamilton Heights is wonderful, and I think you're right about Duane Reade if you mean the space by the 137th St subway stop. 470 Convent doesn't have the prewar details, alas, but seems to have been nicely renovated. The maintenance is a bit high--I am wondering, is that only a bad thing, though? There are plenty of HDFC coops out there so committed to keeping low maintenance that they can't address necessary facade or other work on their buildings, and have precarious financials as a whole. I think having a higher maintenance could mean they are fixing previous problems by levying high monthly fees .. or that they are prudently moving forward.

I am wondering if anyone can compare this building more specifically to other HDFCs in the area as regards this.

Caonima--I assume you are saying that it's a happier thing to buy into a building with a fair number of other people whose economic state in the building is comparable to one's one--is that it? If so, there's some logic to that, but after all, original owners can be impeccable coop members and stewards of their building's well-being and prosperity. I think that buying an HDFC apt in the re-sale market doesn't necessarily mean sensible property ownership in itself. Or did you mean something else?

dc10023 and Uptown2012, I know many people bought into HDFCs. Some are very happy, some don't.

I mention 60% is just for reference, please don't take that as a hard line.

Many original owners are good people, however, they may not be your ideal closed neighbors. For example, some of them may like to play super bass music with low frequency drum beats at 2AM. Or some of them got used to deadbeat on rent. Even after the government give them a free (actually $250, not totally free) unit, some people are still reluctant to pay monthly fee on time. If you are lucky, the board may be controlled by responsable people. But also very likely being controlled by greedy corrupted ones who has good connections. In that case, the reserve fund will be mostly spent on over-priced contractors, kick-backs, legal fees, or covering the deadbeat's back payment.

If there are more new owners than original owners, sometimes they could boost the building atmosphere. The board will sooner or later have more new bloods who want to have a peaceful life, and improve the building greatly. I personally witness new owners in a building turn the deadbeating old owners into paying ontime in a positive inspiration. Environment and peer pressure is very important.

Uptown, yes, I was referring to the space near the 137th St stop being turned into a Duane Reade. I think you bring up a valid point on the maintenance issue as well. It should also be noted that HDFC's are afforded a huge tax break- which helps keep the maintenance low. For awhile, I self managed my condo almost entirely alone (which became a non-paid full time job- not realistic for the long term)- so I can understand your point about a higher maintenance. The key is making sure whatever the charge may be, that it is well run. I personally believe my current common charges should be much higher, as do the current board members- but we realize that would place a huge burden on some owners that are struggling to get by in this economy. We will continue to raise our common charges over the next few years in small increments, but will wait awhile before hiking them to the levels where we believe they really need to be.

I have heard the points that caonima brings up previously- i.e. delinquent owners, corrupted board members, etc and they are certainly valid points. I believe it requires a significant amount of due diligence to buy any property in this town, and even more so for an HDFC.