building at 166 East 61st Street

The building is a two-unit condo, 19.8% commercial and 80.2% co-op. The co-op has an $8,000,000 underlying mortgage.

You'd think the maintenance would be a bit high, what with that mortgage, no retail income, and the co-op paying for central AC, but it looks pretty good.

NWT, would you mind sharing your quick source of information? Sometimes I'd like to do research like this on my own, rather than bug you about it! Thanks.

Just ACRIS. Searching on a recent buyer (Wesley somebody) turned up the block/lot for the co-op (1395/1002). The 1xxx indicates it's a condo unit. The condo declaration is under lots 1001 and 1002, but less to wade through if you go to 1001. For mortgages page through lot 1002, scanning for mortgages or agreements with biggish $ amounts.

Note how some co-op purchases and UCCs were recorded incorrectly under the commercial-lot 1001 instead of the co-op lot 1002.

ACRIS, of course. Another time sucker! Thanks, NWT. :)

NWT, thanks for replying! Your information regarding the financials is very helpful. We like the building, location and street a lot. Anybody else out there have anything to add?

Very convenient location. Seems to have nice views.

Here's your catch, if that's what you're looking for: it's in a heavy traffic area. 61st Street is not too bad, but 60th is not so good, and most of this building faces 60th rather than 61st. I think the address is somewhat misleading.

Right, the main building is on the NW corner of 60th and Third, across 60th from Bloomingdales, with a narrow leg up to 61st with the lobby.

NWT-do you know how I could find listing of buildings which are mixed commercial and residential on the UES?

No way I know of.

Thanx. Anyone now of any mixed commercial/residential buildings on UES, or condos that would allow a therapy office/ practice-not live work, solely the practice ?

Why do you say no retail income? Isn't the retail store on the corner of 60th and 3rd retail and connected?

It's retail and connected, but the co-op doesn't own it. The retail unit's owner collect $x in rent from Ethan Allen. It then pays its own RE taxes and 19.8% of the condo's expenses, and keeps the rest as profit. The co-op collects maintenance from the apartment owners, pays its own RE taxes, plus 80.2% of the condo's expenses, plus all of its own expenses (e.g. the mortgage,) with no retail income.

It was set up that way, as a two-unit condo with the sponsor owning the retail unit, so the sponsor could keep raking in that retail income forever.

Had it been a pure co-op, the sponsor would've leased the retail space from the co-op and sub-leased it to stores, and made a profit. Such a lease would've ended eventually, though, and the co-op could then get market rate on the space. Sponsors tried to enforce "sweetheart" 99-year leases, but many were shot down when NYS decided they were rip-offs of the co-op.

Hence the cond-op, which lets the sponsor get the various tax and marketing advantages of a co-op conversion, while retaining the retail. That environment has changed so as to favor condos, so very few new cond-ops.

Thanks, seems like a great deal for the sponsor. The co-ops pays a good portion of the condo expenses. I like this building but 2.5k+ CCmonth is a lot, would rather have a bigger mortgage and atleast be gaining equity.

Still seems like a lot of CC - 8mm * 8% = 640k annual between 168 units that is not that much around $320/month per unit of course adjusted for the larger units. But where does all the other money go?

The RE taxes alone are $1.3 million per year. That plus staff would be the bulk of the spending, as with most co-ops. $500-something per room per month in maintenance is pretty standard these days.

oh yeah forgot about the punitive RE taxes to subsidize the rest of the city, those are a killer

based on this, not sure how people afford to live here in the city

places are over-priced if you ask me

looks under-priced to a seller, over-priced to a buyer. Depends on which side of the check your standing.

With the run up of RE prices in NYC over the last decade, I would think overpriced for a place that needs a gut rehab.

does anyone know if principle is being paid on the 8mm note or are they just servicing interest?

We really liked this building a lot (great location, pretty street) and seriously considered purchasing an apartment there. We were deterred, however, when we discovered that the building's TCO had expired in March and that the management company had not yet applied to renew it. It's our understanding that without a valid TCO or CofO, it would be difficult, if not impossible, to obtain financing to purchase an apartment in the building. We decided to look elsewhere as it could be weeks before a new TCO is issued. FWIW, you can check the status of a building's CofO or TCO on the DOB's web site.

One more thing, in answer to ms123's question, the $8 million underlying mortgage is an interest-only loan.

what is a TCO or CofO? When an underlying mortgage is a interest only loan, it could potentially
increase maintenance fee. Isn't it?

Temporary Certificate of Occupancy and Certificate of Occupancy.

The building's CofO from 1971 hasn't expired, per the Department of Buildings.

IO means they are not paying down any of the principle, and yes if interest rates rise when they need to refi the CCs which are already high, go up more

does anyone have insights on how effective the air conditioning is (how old the boiler unit is, condition of the mech./steam room)? any word if an assessment is likley to come up anytime soon?

They recently installed a new HVAC system in a few years ago, with assessment for the same. So I wouldn't expect an assessment in connection with the AC system. It uses a cool water system (I think its a reversing valve, so it works with heat and AC) and all is included in the maintenance (so you won't have a separate AC bill and can just leave it on cool all day in the summer). The major problem is some units face the sun, and others do not, so it is common that they will turn the AC off while it is still unreasonable warm in the sunlit units. You have no control over the temperature of your unit, unless you buy an indoor ac unit. That's something to pay attention to.

The board is currently pushing hard to increase the flip tax from 1% to 2% in order to offset expenses, which as explained can only be paid by maintenance as the corporation has no other real form of income.

If the building was 100% condo, the residential unit owners wouldn't own the retail space in any event. No particular reason why a co-op should come along with a random investment in commercial space.

Ya, its pretty uncommon for a coop to have commercial space, but they exist (e.g. Imperial House) at 69th.

Or http://streeteasy.com/nyc/building/33-east-70-street-new_york, where a full block of Madison Avenue retail cuts the maintenance to about half what it'd otherwise be.