Sale at 613 East 6th Street 1B

Hi newbie. OK, let's break down the good and the bad. In general, it looks like a "nice" place, and 6th between B & C is, for the most part, a beautiful block. It has one of the most amazingly landscaped public gardens I've ever seen, the church is gorgeous, and Against the Grain/Grape and Grain is great spot to grab a nice glass of wine, some Belgian beer or a bite to eat. The roof deck and common garden are, of course, good value-adding factors.

But...pretty as it is, past Ave B halfway between 14th St and Houston means you'll have a solid walk to get to the train. That's a negative for most people. Half the apartment is garden level, which is a fancy term for basement. Lower ceilings, possibility of moisture and mold, greater likelyhood of vermin, etc. Also, most of Alphabet City east of the park is marshland, and the buildings are on landfill. Check the DOB for past flooding reports and the FEMA flood rating. I saw a building two blocks away that had a FEMA 500 year flood rating (2% chance every year of a significant flood, or something like that). The building right next door had the next worse rating, whatever that is. The building may need a supplemental pumping system, which may be audible to you or otherwise be an issue that you will be aware of while tenants higher up will be more or less oblivious. Finally, I don't mind the long, narrow, layout (a little classic EV flavor), though it seems the appeal of old NYC funkiness has waned considerably these recent years as prices have skyrocketed. In other words, you may like the layout, but it probably isn't great from a resale perspective. One last, last thing. The spiral staircase does seem to eat up a bit of the square footage.

So, let's see, it's nice, but assuming it's really 600 sf, and half of is a lower-ceilinged, lower value garden/basement, I don't see how it's worth even $1k/sf, making it significantly overpriced. The roofdeck and garden are great, but for 600sf and no doorman (and again, a basement which should be worth fewer shares), maintenance of $837 seems high. You will definitely want to have the ground water situation checked out. I think it merits a home inspector with this specific experience before signing a contract.

I had WAY too much caffeine at lunch. Woooo!

thank you! this was very helpful!

hey one of my friends is also interested in this place and she went in and measured it - said there is no way this place is more than 600 sq - by her calculations, its about 285 sq ft on the parlor level and probably the same (maybe a little more) on the garden level. the place is empty. i also did a walk and yes it is far from the trains..

So add this to the growing list of "What do you do?" properties. It is so grossly overpriced (>25%) that you can't imagine them hearing you out on a reasonable bid, the seller has fantasies about making an unrealistic fortune on the sale, and the broker is overestimating (lying about) the square footage by 50 freaking %. There are many properties priced like this that have been sitting on the market for ages (though this one's about 2 months old with 1 price chop).

The current owner paid $407,700 in June of 04. Considering the fact that it’s a half-basement, most likely on landfill, with high maintenance, $550k seems like a fair deal all around. That would be a little more than 10% annual appreciation. Look at unit 5D in the building. It only appreciated 10% total over two very hot years (2005-2007)!

Do you wait for the big price chop or give them your well-reasoned, calculated offer now? They’re obviously hoping for a sucker, but there are far fewer of them out there in these post-frenzy times. Maybe the owner is testing the market, hoping she can get out before the drop, but she already missed the peak, so does she need/really want to sell or will she pull it when she realizes she can’t clear $300k profit?

Livable but unusual/funky properties like these are only going to come down this year and next (yes, just my opinion, but one I feel is sound), so at the very least I would say don’t let yourself feel like you’re losing out on something that won’t come again. Maybe you make that clear, reasoned offer, including your own financials, pre-approval, etc., to let them know you’re serious, and then leave it. Call to politely remind them of your offer each time they reduce the price. If she does need to sell, you might get a call back at some point. If she doesn’t, I don’t see any reason for you to be the sucker that overpays.

One thing I’ve wondered about properties like this: does the offer described above carry more weight if a trusted buyer’s broker makes it, quoting comps and other factors? The information wouldn’t be any different than an offer you'd present yourself, but would it seem more formal or legitimate?

The most recent sale last year of 764 - is that 5D? if so, isnt that more than 10% appreciation?

Yes, it was 5D. It sold for $699k on 8/16/05, and $764k on 7/30/07 ($5k below asking). That's less than 10% appreciation in almost exactly 2 years.

ah thank you... wow i cant believe this - since the place is empty, i assume the owner is no rush to sell, as when i first saw this place it was occuppied and the broker said they were selling because the owners bought another place...

maybe this warrants another price drop! i would say over 100K!

also i note 414 10th street - that has had several price chops all in all about 100K!

"maybe this warrants another price drop! i would say over 100K!" I'd say a little over 200k, seriously.

Wait a minute, I didn't realize it was empty now but occupied before. Sounds to me like the owner needs to sell in a big way, unless she plans to rent it out (assuming the co-op even allows it). That the broker said the owner bought another place is a HUGE slip up. Can she afford to carry both? I'd say it's time for the offer I described above.

i made an offer of 700K - promptly rejected with a counter of 755 :)

newbie08, I think you will be very, very grateful for that rejection in the not-too-distant future.

yes - i think you are right - i feel like a fool

You should totally NOT feel like a fool. You went for it, which is half the battle. I think the seller is dreaming. The place is ground and below ground level, in not the best area. The place looked very narrow. Screw them!

well i think the area is okay - nice street as tenemental points out... but far from trains etc. i guess time to move on

newbie08, it is a nice block (with indeed a long walk to the trains) but I agree w/ khd's spirit. The fools are the ones who got caught up in the frenzy and bought considerably overpriced properties thinking they'd continue to see unsustainable appreciation year after year.

Here's an anecdote to flesh out my previous comment: Before I found this site and discovered the comps, with only shady brokers and not-so-well-informed friends to guide me, I bid on a property and won. I found the comps before signing the contract and realized that the same price (or less) was buying much larger units in the same building. I passed, and a sucker took it for even more than I had bid, at full asking (I later learned some things about the buyer, who was, indeed, a sucker). A short time later another closed sale in the same building popped up on StreetEasy. A very similar apartment for literally 20% less. Talk about potential buyers remorse!

If you never did any research and accepted their counter than, yes, you'd be a fool. But you asked some questions, did some research, and made a smart decision. Don't be surprised when they come back to accept your $700k in a couple of months, but don't take it!

It might make you feel better to run the NY Times rent vs. buy calculator and think of the money you're saving each month over this place w/ no chance of near-term (or even mid-term) appreciation at their asking price.

tenemental, you should be in the streeteasy hall of fame for good advice

Can an Italian kvell?

Newbie08, just out of curosity, when you offered 700, did they explain why they could not accept it?

Tenemental, how long do think it is good to wait, I am willing to make an offer of 650, but dont want to insult the sellers so that later they wont talk to me if they do have to go for 650. its timing thing.... do you think i should just wait or make the offer?

No they did not say anything other than make a counter. However, they did not say they were insulted. Before you make the offer, read tenemental's string here; as even 650 seems high - you must REALLY like the unit, but will you be able to resell it for a decent appreciation (assuming you hold on to it long enough etc.) when priced at 650 in a market that seems to be indicating a value of under 600?