Suing our Condo board or any other bright idea's?

>making people feel they have no choice but to kill themselves and their pets

Right, blame the board, not mental illness.

"How the f***& is that fair to unit owners?"
"Sorry if I sound a little bonkers, I'm trying to wooooooo sahhhhhh but I am appalled, feel like I have no power to do anything, to ensure that the place where I own property will hold market value, that my maintenance money is not being misspent, pocketed etc...."

The current ownership structure - were you unaware of it when you bought? Was something misrepresented?

DUH genius, (I knew someone who say this) I'm not saying they "MADE" him do it, I'm saying the publicity from it is NOT GOOD for unit owners. Period. And of course no one can make someone commit suicide. But having dealt with this building they have someone who is EXTREMELY aggressive, forceful, a bully at the helm and I can easily see how someone who was even a little emotionally fragile could fall apart going up against them. They tried to bully us in a disgusting, very testosterone filled way and it wasn't until we threatened a lawsuit that they laid off. There are ALOT of things going on there that are not kosher nor just humanly decent and this is compounded by the building not having enough individual unit owners to band together to go up against the crazy's.

But thanks for your GEM of a predictable commentary huntersburg.

We bought in 1988 right after the building went condo I believe. It was run totally differently then. The company that owns it split into 2, and from my vantage, we got the s*** end of the stick with the one who now runs us.

Oh yeah, you are in a position to criticize me.

If I were you, I'd be more worried about bring guests over who might see how poorly your building is maintained. Have you even seen your hallways? If that's not an indication enough about how poor a purchasing decision might be in the building...

1988? Reagan was still President, right?

So what's your excuse - not enough time to look at the full picture and respond?

We purchased in 1988 huntersburg. At the time it was a WELL maintained, lovely building. And was until maybe 7-8 years ago when it has just not been maintained well.

And again, the point is not whether it was a good buy or not. It's what are Unit owners in NY allowed to do in both of the cases of 1. Suspicion about corruption and mishandling of maintenance funds 2. Sponsors owing a ridiculous percentage of units in a building.

Your position is that you sat there for 7-8 years and did nothing, but someone else is at fault?

It was rented for 13 years to a single tenant. We believed in that time it would be updated as the lobby was.

Wait, none of this is the point. Go away. Your comments are hidden for a reason. I enjoy your ridiculousness when it's in other people's threads, just not mine okay LOL.

You are a shareholder and acted simply based on belief not supported by evidence, but someone else besides you is to blame?

How about this. Tell me what my rights as sharehold are. Walk me through this. OKAY. Treat me like the idiot you think I am but with HELPFUL information.

You have been a shareholder for 7-8 years, but you need to come on to streeteasy and ask a "hidden" poster for advice?

I don't agree with hunters aggression here, but on the other hand you are actually possibly a prime example of the problems in buying in condos, where the ease of renting becomes a prime reason to buy. Obviously, you had no problem with the building while your apartment was rented out, but only "discovered" the problems when you went to sell. Did you ever get involved in building management issues while your apartment was rented out for the last 13 years?

hi penthouselady!

Re: Sponsors owing a ridiculous percentage of units in a building.

1 - What is the acceptable percentage ownership by the sponsor?
2 - What was the ownership 7-8 years ago when you purchased?
3 - On what basis did you believe that within your acceptable timeframe that the percentage ownership would go from what percentage you were aware of when you purchased, to the percentage you believe is acceptable?

Once again, can someone answer the ACTUAL questions posed. Not one person has actually answered the questions. We do not all live in a vaccuum that assumes that circumstances were perfect preceeding us coming here to ask for information.

My father owned the unit, had a heart attack then cancer, the unit has now come to me. Does that clarify things. Clearly, I am in a situation now where I am asking specific questions for a reason. Instead of getting help, once again SE comes with criticism. I very clearly asked WHAT MY RIGHTS ARE IN THIS SITUATION. Not for everyone to say "Well how did you let yourself get in this situation".

So please, anyone?

I'm not asking how you got yourself into this situation. I'm wondering why you believe that you deserve anything more than you actually have?

Oh, your dad owned and then he died, well, we should give you extra rights over other shareholders because you are a good son.

Is that your position?

Hunter - try to read the OP's posts - it was purchased in 1988, and has been rented out for the last 13 years. This is an estate situation (which, IMHO is what is called "free money"). Your rights? Sell it for what you can get and say a thank you to your father in heaven.

ph41, you say nothing contrary to my position, except you want to feel that you are nicer.

Listen, if you want to be nicer than me, great.

1. Huntersburg we didn't buy 7-8 years ago. We bought over 20 years ago.

2. From my understanding, Banks are not lending to people looking to buy in certain buildings where the Sponsor owns X amount of units. I don't know what number x is, and I don't know the exact percentage in our building. I just know ours is one of the seemingly blacklisted ones specifically for this Sponsor Owner reason. Has there not been any law passed in NY to prevent Sponsors from hoarding units? It not, why?

Asking since clearly this is new to me and I am simply trying to understand exactly how this works. And yes, I could ask a lawyer but I had this slither of a hope that at least someone here could shed some light on things for me.

It is not an ESTATE situation. MY father is not dead. He is simply tired, lives out of state and once our tenant moved out into a smaller unit in the same building, I have taken over the management of the apartment. I live in ASIA right now otherwise I would live in it myself however the mortgage, real estate taxes and maintenance are not cheap so it is the OPPOSITE of Free money.

Once again, stop making assumptions and please answer the questions posed.

1 - supports my point even further

2 - ownership has risks and rewards.

unnumbered paragraph - hire a lawyer or professional and stop being so cheap. Over 20 years, being cheap helped contribute to your distress today.

Angel, didn't you post that you've had all cash offers, which would make the mortgage lending problem not a problem, right? So, how much lower were the all cash offers than what you think you can get if the banks will finance? Are you possibly being a little too greedy for the free money?

>It is not an ESTATE situation. MY father is not dead. He is simply tired, lives out of state and once our tenant moved out into a smaller unit in the same building, I have taken over the management of the apartment. I live in ASIA right now otherwise I would live in it myself however the mortgage, real estate taxes and maintenance are not cheap so it is the OPPOSITE of Free money.
Once again, stop making assumptions and please answer the questions posed.

Everyone else besides the owners are responsible, right?

This is a perfect case of people who live so high in judgement of others that they find themselves incapable of simply offering helpful insights or just saying nothing at all.

>Are you possibly being a little too greedy for the free money?

ph41, I'm not sure I agree with your aggression here.

"Are you possibly being a little too greedy for the free money?"

WOW, are you freaking serious. Go Away.

because angel, you weren't judging the sponsor, right?

Angel - so why not take the all cash offers?

ANGEL -- I am afraid I can't be very helpful, either, as you need to talk to a lawyer who needs to get all the facts about the condo board. (Sorry to dash that "slither of a hope that at least someone here could shed some light on things"; it is just too complicated, with too many variables.) I don't know what percentage of sponsor ownership is "ridiculously high" but you are long past the point in the building history in which the sponsor should control the board.

If you are asking "how do unit owners make sure the board works for them?", the lawyer's answer (absent some kind of malfeasance, dishonesty) is likely to be: the old-fashioned way, by mobilizing unit owners to replace the board with a more responsive bunch. Unit owners who have been renting their units out don't have exactly the same interests as the owner-residents, but they should overlap a great deal. Contact other owners. educate them about the issues in management. Run an insurgent slate of candidates.

Unfortunately, that is not a short-term fix for anything. The only likely way to make that happen sooner is if you can prove there has been some kind of *actionable* mis-management (e.g., self-dealing, kickbacks).

If you are asking "how do we sell?", your options are probably *very* limited until (unless) the board/management situation is changed. A lender (or agent who sells in the building?) would need to tell you precisely why people are having trouble getting loans here, and there may not be much (anything?) to be done about that in the near term. And all this will be very hard to do from Asia.

Again: If the board has run the building into the ground, and made it impossible for owners to sell in a non-cash situation, the "remedies" are more likely to be in voting than in suing anyone. Details are critical, so get a practical lawyer.

And don't read the grey stuff.

SMattingly - really good post laying out all the pros and cons.

I, unfortunately, tend to compress to 3 sentences all less (and assume that people will follow the abbreviated logic).

SMattingly, THANK YOU. Thank you Thank you Thank you..... that is the kind of answer I was looking for.

I lived in this building till going to college and hope to actually return to living in it in a few years unless we sell which we would only do worst case scenario. So my interests truly are more resident owner focused and renter owner secondary. Though clearly it has been used as investment for some time now, it is an emotional property that my family called home and only rented out as necessity once my parents had to move north to care for family.

Perhaps why I am a bit sensitive to those that treat this as anything other than it is, a sucky situation that I am just trying to sort through now that I have some of the control.

I'm nearly positive there is some "actionable" mis-management , kick back stuff going on from other incidents and discussions but yes, being out of the country most of the year right now makes things harder to pursue.

Agent has definitely said there is a lender/building sponsor ownership issue with the banks.

I guess there isn't much to be done until I'm back in the city and can lead a Spartacus like revolt LOL.

Again, thank you so much for actually shedding some light on things for me.

As in Angel wants to sell, doesn't like what's happening in the building but father has been an absentee owner for the last 13 years, so, can't really charge in now and make lots of changes in the management of the building since you really didn't get involved before, so just sell it for what you can get.

Again ph41. GO AWAY. You coudn't be MORE wrong.

Boo hoo

If you really want to go back and live there, just rent it out again until you want to come back to reclaim it and live in your childhood home. LOL

You might want to reread your appalling comments tomorrow once you sober up.

You continue to be revolting and obnoxious and a prime example of the bad stereotype of new York.

Get off the sauce.

And there is Columbiacounty - the drunk of upstate new york. Must have missed the rabbits tonight

Look at it like a business, because it is. At least 55% of the business is owned by one entity. The remaining 45% is owned by 302 separate owners.

(The 55/45 is just by apartment count, 369/302. The commercial unit makes it even more than 55%.)

It being a condo, many of the 302 minority owners are non-resident and don't worry much about how the building is run as long as the return (rent - CCs/taxes) is still OK. It'd be tough to get them all together -- or even contact them -- to try to force through any changes.

The collective resources of you 302 are as nothing to those of the majority owner. You're a fly on an elephant. Think about that before litigating.

I'd just let the Milsteins (Seymour's kids Connie and Edward, right?) run this rental business the way they want to. It's to their mutual interest, after all, and you're not paying more per PCI than they are. If you don't want to own a rental, then sell and either buy a co-op or rent yourself.

Oops, for those not keeping up on suicidal-pet-murderer news, we're talking http://streeteasy.com/nyc/building/one-lincoln-plaza

Angel,

In any condo or coop, majority rules. That's what we buy into when we buy. It sounds like there's a serious majority that is ruling poorly in your opinion and that is unlikely to change. Your options to affect the majority are few, especially as a long-term absentee owner. Your description makes it clear that you think things are getting worse, in which case your best financial option is to sell and move on.

Thank you NWT and Eric. I appreciate your thoughful responses. It's really sad the place isn't what it was and what was a place I had great memories of is being neglected. I'm holding onto a glimmer of hope that they are going to be spending the next 5 years sprucing things up, but the fact they don't even have anything finalized now but put the assessment through worries me. If they did upgrade things then obviously, we would regret having sold now and buying something of comparable size/views etc would cost more than we would walk away with.....

Knowing what I know now, I don't think I would ever buy in Manhattan again. I love the city to death and plan to spend most of the rest of my life there, but its insane what goes on dealing with condo boards and having little control over property you have a stake in. I for one, unless I was a multi millionaire, would rent rent rent.

>I'm holding onto a glimmer of hope that they are going to be spending the next 5 years sprucing things up,

Hope is an excellent strategy.

30 Lincoln has some of the same issues The brothers whom run these buildings do not care about owners or renters. Buildings will always be subpar as long as they control the boards.

(from other board)

Angel building must be less than 50% sponsor owned for banks to approve it for financing.