Forte Condos...

Ha. Thanks for the link, samadams.

So I may be misreading or the Post article may be missing some nuances, but the gist of this program seems to be: If a seller wants to sell an apartment for much more than it is worth, and is refusing to sell for what it is actually worth, then the government will step in and cover part of the delta in order to incentivize getting more housing onto the market.

I guess there are stupider government programs out there.

It's not clear that the Post article is about Forte. Could be about be@schermerhorn or maybe other developments.

is be@schermerhorn in foreclosure? The only building in DT that I know of so far in forclosure is the Forte

Its probably Be@ and not Forte since they don't have a TCO and haven't had an open house for weeks. They are probably in the foreclosure process presently. If I'm wrong and it is Forte that'll suck for the residence who bought and are currently occupying the building; even though it only a handful of them.

It has to be Forte actually the article says the banks already forclosed and it would have hit the wire if Be@schermerhorn had gotten bagged. Forte will be a HUD property

I think it's 37 units sold at Forté, with residents already living there. I'd call that more than a handful, though it's barely one third of the building.

Who knows what building the article is referring to, but whichever building it is, this program is an acknowledgment that prices are still too high and will come down, particularly in Downtown Brooklyn.

If these units are gonna be offered for 300,000 in a lottery with 50,000 going to the seller as an incentive why not lower the prices so that they are 350,000? The lowest unit in forte is 490,000

people living in the Forte are f%*^&

Nah. They overpaid by 40% or so but the best way to recover that loss is to fill up the building as quickly as possible, to create a market for goods and services in the neighborhood. Lower prices will do that.

I have a gut feeling the post article is refering to Be@Schemehorn!

If it were Forte, would the article say Fort Greene instead of Downtown Brooklyn?

I don't think anyone knows what's happening with be@schermerhorn.

well we have narrowed it down to two. It will most likely be both by Christmas anyway

My impression from the article is that the banks would take the loss, while the developer would get the $50k incentive.

Say a bank wrote a loan on a construction project that required the units to sell for at least $500/sf in order to pay back the loan.

What the city seems to be saying is, they want the banks to agree to sell at a loss -- for $400/sf, or whatever the $300k price works out to -- so it's the bank that would be eating the writedown, not the developer.

The developer I guess gets to keep the $50k sweetener.

Nice to be a developer in this town.

its says the 50 thousand would go to either the bankers or the developer

It would only seem to make sense that the $50k would go to whoever hed title to the unit at the time of the sale of the unit to the city/restricted income purchaser. Thus, if the bank had foreclosed/taken a deed in lieu of foreclosure, then the bank would be entitled to the $50k. If the developer still owned the unit, then the developer would get the $50k, although the developer would in all likelihood need to get its lender's approval to make the cheap sale and the developer would need to pay all of the sales proceeds, including the $50k, over to the lender as a release price.

Something is not making sense here. How can they price down units from $600k to $300k. This would be pure stupidity by the bank. These would go fast if the bank would only drop prices down to about 500k on the 2 bed. units. Don't understand why they would need to turn them into affordable housing.

I agree that rather than running to the government the bank ought to reduce prices incrementally until they get down to real values. They may be able to get just as much as the purchase price plus the subsidy if they find the right price.

Not sure the floor is necessarily $500K for a 2BR, though. That seems to come out around $450/sf, which I would consider still too high for Downtown Brooklyn in the post-bubble world.

the bank just needs to get this off the books and take the write down

That's fine but to drop prices down to $300k for low income candidates without trying selling these units in the market for less tha the current price does not make sense. They are basically raping the current owners. I really feel bad for these guys.

I don't feel so bad for the current owners. I feel bad for the taxpayers.

The current owners are at least benefitted by having their neighboring empty units fill up as quickly as possible. Even if the bank were to come down to a good price, it may take a year or two to fill up the units. I presume the subsidy will help fill up the building much faster than that. Filling up the units faster will create more of a market for goods and services in the neighborhood, which will in turn help everyone's property values.

If you're concerned that the income restrictions will mean bringing in neighbors who don't have the purchasing power to help the neighborhood very much, I would be less concerned. The gov't can't be THAT restrictive if it's going to find someone who can afford to pay $300,000 for an apartment.

On the whole, I think this helps the current unit holders. Their units are already underwater no matter what the bank does. However I'm not persuaded that this is a good use of taxpayer money.

Most of the listings are now unavailable.

I wonder why most and not all. I am guessing the ones that are still available are under contract but have not yet closed. Any thoughts?

No, I think it's just that the StreetEasy system for some reason is picking up the old listings from the Clarett Group that are not actually active. I thought I had read somewhere that all actual listings had been transferred to the Developers Group.

So I'm guessing it's just a software quirk and no Forté listings are actualy active.

Does anyone know what Eurohypo's plan is?
Lower prices, go rental, affordable housing, etc....

We can only speculate. The salespeople won't comment, which is understandable. Maybe if someone wants to find a number for the Eurohypo U.S. P.R. department we could call and ask them, but I doubt they would tell us either. Possibly they haven't decided yet themselves.

I know what I would LIKE to happen:

(1) Units go back on the market but with big price drops.

Other possibilities seem to be:

(2) Government program puts the units back on the market with even bigger price drops, and income restrictions.

(3) Remaining units get rented out.

are any owners at the Forte on here? What are you guys going to do?

I'd be surprised if there's anything they can do, unless they can somehow pool together enough cash to buy out Eurohypo. And there wouldn't be any reason to do that if Eurohypo is just planning to discount the units and sell to resident owners. Yeah, the lower sale prices reveal the depreciation in your own units, but at some point you just have to take your lumps.

But if Eurohypo is planning instead to rent out the remaining units, or sell them pursuant to a government affordable housing program, then if I were the condo association I'd be scrambling to find some kind of alternative. Those alternatives would mean actually causing more depreciation rather than just revealing existing depreciation that is hidden by a lack of transactions. Much worse, if you ask me.

Maybe Eurohypo would sell for 40 or 50 cents on the dollar. Tough for 36 resident owners to come up with $16~20 million, but maybe if they could pool $5 million together they could find some financing to cover the rest. If Eurohypo were to take 40 cents on the dollar than I would guess that the buyer could make a small but respectable profit selling the units as condos on the market.

this will be intresting to watch. My guess is that Goldman would not have walked away if there was any sort of market for condos in this area. I mean they walked away without even trying like there is no hope.

Depends what you mean by "hope". With 70,000 square feet of inventory left and $40 million of Eurohypo debt ahead of them, Goldman et al would have to have averaged more than $570/sf on the remaining units just to break even.

So all Goldman is conveying by handing over the keys is that there is no hope the units are worth more than $570/sf. There is obviously a lot of room below that. I think the most anyone on this discussion has suggested recently is $400/sf, and I was thinking $300~$350/sf. So if Eurohypo were to sell its position for $16 million I think there definitely would be some hope that the buyer would make a profit.

Sorry, I wrote that wrong. They'd have to beat $570/sf just to get $1 of their equity investment back. I'm sure it would be more than that to break even.

Does anyone has more news on the transfer of ownership. The Brownstoner mentions that according to the deed document, Clarett and Eurohypo struck the deal way back in April, but it didn't close until a couple of weeks ago.
What is the process from here? Has anyone talked to Eurohypo about their intentions?

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/02/nyregion/02condos.html

So who is controlling the Sales for the remaining units? Would it be the bank(Eurohypo)now?

I would assume they'll hire some agency to do the selling for them. The bank would have the last word but I doubt they'd be involved in the marketing and actual selling of the units.

Is it safe to say that it won't be the developers group?

Hi, I'm planning on buying a condo for the first time and was wondering if you guys can answer some questions.

In a year or so, my plan was to buy a luxury condo in Fort Greene, and most likely it would be Forte. I noticed many people said the construction was bad. Could you be more specific? Are the walls thin? How can you tell the construction is bad?

Also, do you think in a year there will still be units available? Or should I buy it as soon as they drop the price to 380k or whatever the article stated. I make around ~65k a year and am a first time homebuyer. I also work for goldman so maybe they can give me a discount :)

Thanks

You work at Goldman and only make $65? I guess you clean the toilets. As far as shoddy construction I noticed in the model apartment that there were cracks in the wall. I'm not an expert but that really stuck out to me.

They could keep the developers group given their knowledge and experience with the building. You can't blame Developers for the failure of the building - in reality everything worked against Forte. Timing was bad and pricing of the units was even worse. If the bank drops prices to reasonable levels, I am sure Developers will move the units fast.

toby the question is what is reasonable. In this market 400 Psf would move em

At most. Maybe $300/sf for the lower floors and $400/sf for the higher floors, with gradations in between.

And that depends on if they participate in the affordable housing thing. Who would want to pay $400/sf to live in an affordable housing building. It is sad to say but that would bring the value of the building down much lower than $400.

Anything new with this place? Anyone?

I haven't seen anything, Toby. The building's web site hasn't changed in months. The listings on the TDG web site have been gone for weeks. StreetEasy still has some "legacy" Clarett Group listings that I assume are not actually active.

I suspect when there's news we'll all get it at the same time.

I just heard that sales won't begin until november, has anyone heard otherwise. Why is this taking so long? I may as well purchase at the Clermont Greene.

I am assuming the bank is negotiating with the city on the number of affordable units Forte is willing to pass on.

Any word on sales in this building? Waiting to purchase something in Brooklyn. Looking for a deal possibly in this building. Anyone know if they are going to be doing affordable housing or just restructring prices?

Check Oro. They just dropped prices down by 25% across the board.

Any news on these guys? Have they started selling units again?

its been almost 3 months and still nothing? they lose more money every day

Who knows. You could try contacting this guy:

http://www.eurohypo.com/en/site/website/immobilien-finanzierung_amerika/immobilien-finanzierung_usa/index.php

Or their PR people in Germany. Either way, they probably won't share their plans yet but I guess it couldn't hurt to ask.

Some new listings up - cheapest around $420/sf. Still too much. They seem to have knocked only 10% off of their previous prices, though it's hard to compare because they've avoided re-listing apartments they've had listed before (perhaps deliberately?).

Kind of disappointing after all the wait. I was hoping to see bigger cuts than that. We'll see if they sell . . .

According to my calculations seems like they cut 25% on the previous prices on the 1 bedrooms I was looking at.

There is one Forte listing that shows the former price: apt 17A, a 2 bed with 1100 sf, is now offered at $547k. It was previously listed for $905k.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/building/230-ashland-place-brooklyn

You're right, guys, there are some bigger drops. Apparently the new sponsor decided to reduce the spread in price between the lower floors and upper floors. But on the third floor they only came down about 10%. I guess if you want to live in Downtown Brooklyn and you value a view, you may find a pretty good deal on the upper floors.

what is the preference, line A or C?
Any recommendations

I visited the building last winter, and liked the A 3 bedrooms: interesting layout, with some drama to make you forget the so-so building choices. Watch out for the lot line windows on the lower floors. I don't remember which floor clears above the planned building next door, and it might have changed from last year anyway, with the market implosion.

Thanks maly.
What do you mean by the lot line windows? What should I watch out for?

You could lose the windows when/if someone develops the next door lot.

Yeah, I just put up the one listing because it was an interesting price drop, but to me this place is still significantly overpriced.

It's nearly $500/sf, I don't think that pricing level will hold over the next two years. I personally don't like residential high-rises, so it would take a much bigger price drop to get me interested.

But personal tastes aside, the current pricing level is still quite a bit too high, in my opinion.

The price/sq ft looks good on paper for this building. But I think the angles in the layout end up as wasted space. The 707 sq ft studio for instance, would get the same furniture as a 600 sq ft "square" apartment. i liked the views though.

I'm a buyer at $250 sq ft and 8% interest rates.

It may seem like a reasonable deal with the latest cuts, but guess what, it really isn't when the monthly CC is really high...over a $1000 per month for some units for very little amenities (not even bike storage)...gimme a break, this is all a gimmick!

Oro, Toren, Forte, Belltel..... the flood of capacity is almost here. And all these developers hoped would come over from Manhattan can suddenly afford to stay in Manhattan. Good times coming!

I've been calling the Brooklyn glut (specifically N flatbush) for some time now... and now here we are.

does anyone know what the adjacent property plans are? the lot line condition mentioned in earlier posts-- is there some proposed new building on the BAM Harvey theater site or another adjacent site?
and any ideas as to why the common charges are so high? oro and toren both have swimming pools (forte does not) but the cc's are equal or even lower than forte.

Forté's higher common charges were discussed last year in a series of articles and press releases. Curbed has some links:

http://curbed.com/archives/2007/03/08/fort_condo_explains_charges_knocks_competition.php

My bet is that the biggest factor is simply that Oro and Toren are bigger buildings and have a staff that is not proportionally as large.

It's really expensive to have a full-time doorman. That's by far the biggest expense in the building, and Oro and Toren have three times the number of units to spread out that cost.

I'm going to see Forte (second visit) this Sunday. I liked it on the first visit but am worried about getting that deep in debt with the maintenance so high. I suppose I could try to put in a low bid even though their prices have recently come down. Does anyone out there think they may still come down? With no parking in the building your adding another hefty monthly charge and you still have to walk to your building. I looked at Toren and Oro as well and they are just asking too much. Any advice?

if you like the place then bid on it bit not to much lower then asking. all the other units are inc ontract at the asking (after the price slash). i dont think it will come down since there are contracts out on the whole building.toren and oro are FAR form the subway and in bad areas. you wont get a better deal and be this close to so many transportation lines

You won't get a better deal right now. I personally think you'll get a better deal soon. I agree with JJ that Forté is a better location than Toren or Oro, given the location of the subway lines especially.

However 1HP is right nearby Forté, so it's just as good a location. Give it a year or two, and 1HP will likely have to come down to Forté's prices or lower. There's a limited number of buyers out there, and Forté just nabbed a bunch of them . . .

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/17126-forte-integrated

Hey guys,
I’m moving the threads for a couple of reasons:
1. “Forte rebooted” was not created under Forte’s main page. Not easy to locate if it’s not on the SE front page. By incorporating the forum, we can check out the discussions as well as the building’s status (in-contracts, recorded sales);
http://streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/16435?page=3
2. There’re already 300 posts in the initial board. We need to make an extra click on the “last page” to see the recent comments.
3. For the new comers: “Forte condos” has been abandoned for a while. However, if you want to check out some history:
http://streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/3021-forte-condos?page=2
Sorry about the inconvenience if you need to rebook email update.
Leom the organizing freak :)

Thanks Post 87 and JJ for your feedback. I cancelled my visit Sunday. If they really do have contracts out for all the one bedrooms (B line)
at asking price then I'd be wasting my time coming in with a lower bid. I think I'll take a break and see what the New Year brings. I'm curious to know why they don't have permanent certificate of occupancy yet.