80 Metropolitan

nyc2009 --- reading your posts is good practice for screening out total bs..thanks !!

since jim is a genius let's let him explain why new developments hold back units and don't put everything on sale at once.

unfortunately nyc2009, if something you say is true at this point it's going to get tossed out with the rest of your comments because you've destroyed your creditibility (the The Edge threads, for example)...if you try really hard and limit yourself to actual, real, as in not-made-up, information for a while, maybe your posts will not instantly all go into the mental trash bin....

jim, you were giving W11 credibility. What do you have to say about them now after yesterday?
lets see how you explain your way out of that one

good question: holding back units is a little bit marketing bs I guess...but personally i think it has more to do with the practicality of putting listings up for 120 units at the same moment because it makes it hard to wade through them; they put up samples in effect; when you go to the offices they will usually discuss all the unsold units

and..it isn't difficult at all to figure out how many units are really unsold (in my experience they will tell you if you ask; anyway, it isnt' hard to find out using the internet sources like se)...

I never vouched for the developer per se at w11. It's a risk factor but primarily as manifested in the build quality.

I am telling you for a fact that the bank holding a mortgage on a new development will not knowingly let a sales office sell one size of unit faster than others. If you don't believe it call Capital One and ask them.

nyc2009, so they'll just reject sales because they want a balance of sales among apartment sizes? That makes a lot of sense.

by the way everything is bs until it becomes true. like W11. time will prove me correct about the edge. i have time to wait

its very frustrating as a buyer to have weed through all these tactics. time will tell is certainly true, but that means I have to wait months to see whats real and whats not? such a ridiculous market. there clearly needs to be more regulation on new development disclosure.

nyc2009..i honestly don't know if banks give such guidelines as you state; if so, that's interesting, but i suspect a development would work around that somehow rather than lose sales..

a developer and the sales office will do anything to make a sale. that is true. But the mortgage holder on the property will remove the sales team and put in another one if they discover that they are selling only one size of unit. It happened in downtown Brooklyn and in Harlem on 124th street.

bjw2103- you are starting to figure it out. that is why they do not release all of the apartments at once. they don't reject sales they just don't make all apartments available. I am not saying it makes sense to most people but that is what they do.

nyc2009, I was being sarcastic. What you say makes little sense - when you visit a sales office, you figure out pretty quickly that all units are available. Why would they turn you down if you say you want x apartment and will pay full ask for it? On top of that, once you get an offering plan, all apartments are listed there. As jim said, I think you're only cementing your reputation as a bs artist around here.

Yeah, everything is up for sale. I think it'd be a better strategy to list (probably a better term than release) some more units, as they have only a few listed at the moment with "newer" prices. At least that's what I'd do :P

From my experience, I have seen the agents try to keep a variety of units listed in the hopes of not being left with for example only a bunch of 2bdrms and no other options, perhaps this is what nyc2009 is saying? i don't know whether it is mandated from a bank, but it does make some sense.
N77, what are the "newer" prices, seems like the same unrealistic prices to me, I think you could pretty much rent comp units for half the monthly outlay needed to own here.

all apartments are listed in the offering with their prices. that does not mean they are available for sale. If they are available why are they not listed on the website? Do you see how many are listed as off the market? Why do you thin that is?

But the point is, that, in reality, they are. Why they aren't listed? No idea. Kiz, there aren't yet, "newer prices", that was precisely my point.

I just want 80 met to come clean about what's live and what's not. If they would just show where they stand they would get some real bids and do some business

If they showed where they stand for actual sales they would not do another sale ever. The only way they can make a sale is through smoke and mirrors. They should change the name of the building to 80 Magic Tricks.

Uhm, I think whatever they sold is pretty much listed here. And it doesn't seem they added much (except a couple of repetition), so frankly I don't know what's all the mistery really...

The mystery is why do they have listings in contract since 2007 and 2008 ?

The mystery is why do they keep up the cheesy 2004 broker tactics instead of just selling the units
this > 50% sold is not reality
It appears that about 20 units have actually closed
with 34 outstanding contracts, many of which were inked years ago. some may be in negotiation, but how long should that take. it would seem to me that if the developer were interested in bonafide negotiations it would be in their best interest to wrap things up asap and get the unit sold, do they really want to be sitting around with 34 empty apts and dick around--no.
My interpretation is that the buyer and seller in most of these 34 situations could not come to an agreement but the developer needs to keep them appearing active because....
a new prospective buyer would run from a bldg that has been on sale since 2007, closings for about 6 months but only able to post 19 closings out of 110 units.
N77--if i were one of those 19 i would be concerned-- they need to make sales-- 19 in a 110+ unit bldg will not engender stability
at the very least--open the sales office--have a couple of open houses--return some phone calls--advertise prices that are somewhere near the mark that new buyers are biting at.

"at the very least--open the sales office--have a couple of open houses--return some phone calls-."

well put. if i were one of the nineteen i would be all over them to do this.

this thread needs some facts ..other than lousy phone coverage this is a lot of speculation...

billyres: what is the explanation for delays in closing the outstanding contracts?...are you closing?...i understand that at least not long ago the building was not fully ready for move-in, but is that still true?..how long are they giving contract holders to close or drop dead?...

jim, tco's are generally given by floor. there haven't been any closings on the 5th or PH floors, that could be the explanation for those units. all units on floors 1-4 should be good to go.

they have TCO for all floors.

I recall them saying the whole builidng was not ready for move-in . But that was a couple months ago. I forget how many floors were ready. billyres started this thread...has he closed?

all residential floors have tco--
tco for 5th and 6th (ph) floor came about 2 weeks ago- so we can't pass judgement on the outcomes of those contracts-- but that is <1/3 of those 37 listed
the bldg is now fha and fnma approved. You can use this link to verify fha approval of any project:

https://entp.hud.gov/idapp/html/condlook.cfm?CFID=1727070&CFTOKEN=f1930637aa79f753-0C69EFE4-C3DC-551A-9EE64A68F5E6DF21

there are no open houses and the agent is not on-site- that is a fact

the contract holders in limbo are not likely to talk because if they are or were in negotiation they are probably bound by a confidentiality agreement or they have some outstanding complaint or litigation--so unless you happen to personally know all those people you are not going to factually know what is going on

It seems that, according to their website, there have been some price reduction at least. 2G (2BR) from 689 to 629. 1J from 655 to 599 and others.

i looked at 1j...that is what they told me verbally couple months ago...so not really a new move, although i suppose it might mean that it is a new talking point, so they would go lower than that

I think it is a good sign that at least they are getting a dose of reality and showing some effort to make a sale rather than continue with the game of chicken.
it looks like they also added a couple of new listings. correct?

I am not closing.

BillyRes, I am glad you updated. Since you started this thread almost 2 years ago, it's really interesting to read all your comments over time. Do you think you have enough perspective to teach others about your experience?

we'll we know one contract isnt gonna close

Billyres, thanks for the update. Did you just walk away on the deposit or try to negotiate or file something with the AG?. What was your final straw thinking? any knowledge of others walking (did you guys have a google group)

BillyRes, sorry to hear it, but I'm sure you've thought things through and are making the best decision for yourself. Do you still see yourself moving to Williamsburg in the end?

Sorry to hear it also, I should say. It's a nice building in a nice hood, but you have to do what seems right for your economics at this time...

billyres, i wont be surprised if you can swoop in in 12-24 months and pick up a better unit at a cheaper price even with your deposit loss

StreetEasy History
05/03/2008 Previously Listed by Halstead Property at $759,000.
07/08/2008 Delisted temporarily by Halstead Property.
01/16/2009 Listed by Halstead Property at $799,000.
03/21/2009 Price decreased by 8% to $735,000.
05/31/2009 Price decreased by 6% to $689,000.
02/17/2010 Price decreased by 9% to $629,000.

with this kind of thing going on i bet a lot of those contract holders are happy they didnt close at 800-1000/psf

kiz, that's particularly helpful for buyers who care less about buying into a specific line. Lines that see lots of cuts are strong cues that negotiation is on your side until the sponsor finds a price point that's attractive to a minimum amount of buyers for that line. Sponsor has an information disadvantage in that case.

thats still only a 17% cut vs what they started with two years ago....

Do you think they are starting to get the picture?
Here is a 26% ask price decrease on one of the townhouses

StreetEasy History
02/09/2008 Previously Listed by Halstead Property at $1,635,000.
07/02/2008 Previously Listed by Halstead Property at $1,665,000.
07/07/2008 Delisted temporarily by Halstead Property.
01/01/2010 Halstead Property Listing is no longer available.
02/17/2010 Listed by Halstead Property at $1,295,000.

maybe..I know i wont trust anything they say until I see all the contract info updated.

marco, are you considering a purchase here?
what are your parameters?
ie-price psf, % sold

ppsf is the main thing. I think the units are nice and i like the neighborhood. I need to know what they really have left to know what a fair price is. I also think the market is still falling in general so I'm comfortable with waiting.

i was also considering here, but the main sales guy seems to be a real a-hole. Can anyone tell me how their recent closing experience was?

SamW: Have you done a Google search?

Billy..you've become kind of reticent and mysterious; why did you ulimately walk off? and what you planning to do --come back and bid at current market prices....or move to vegas....or what. You were a sane voice on here, so interested to hear what you think

"i was also considering here, but the main sales guy seems to be a real a-hole"

couldnt agree more

That's funny. I was strongly considering buying at Northside Piers and I really disliked the sales person there (Florence Clutch).

funny how they are both Halstead properties, Northside and 80. Anyhow, I would really like to know people who have moved in and their experiences closing -- concessions, offers, etc.

It like they're in a trendy city restaurant and they're doing u a favor by letting u dine there. I asked the people at nsp about a year ago if they would do FHA loans and they laughed at me... I bet they're workin on getting approved right now.

SamW, I closed almost two months ago. The experience in closing was fine.

N77, that was pretty vague, what were some things you were able to negotiate, etc.

SamW, yes I was able to negotiate a little on price & closing costs. Their immediate response is probably negative regarding negotiating, but with a little patience it'll happen.

Just noticed the depth of the swimming pool(under 4ft)..holy shit!! If more than one person is in that pool at once you can forget about swimming laps..it will be a WAVE machine

Like the wave pool at action park

its not a water park, its s lap pool in a condo. you people would complain about free bjs

sam i'm not trying to be difficult but have you ever had a swim in a pool that shallow? Swimming has been my sport since childhood and i can tell you it will be very hard to swim laps if you have just a couple people in there at once. There is a reason all pools have a deep end namely to limit waves. Fast pools are deep pools. That pool will feel like your swimming thru sand i promise you.

they reduced price on 3E...20k..still a ton of stale contract listings though. this place is gonna fall flat on its face

Anybody have any current news on how the sales are doing?

i think they are doing really well. this is by far the best building in Williamsburg, and believe me we have been to them ALL. The best common area, the best building structure, the best appliances, the best construction.

Sam W are you buying into this buld? Any thoughts on the edge?

does anyone know any info on that 7-8 story building coming up on the south facing side of 80 met? This is going to block decent views of the bridge.

SamW: Agree with your assessment of the building's quality.

Listings in Contract (31) / Being Reported and Communicated as a "Sale"

2007 (Year Entered in Contract)
11/2007 $915,000 #3H 2 beds 1,205 ft²
11/2007 $615,000 #4B 1 bed 736 ft²
11/2007 $615,000 #4J 1 bed 741 ft²
11/2007 $575,000 #3B 1 bed 736 ft²
11/2007 $465,000 #4C 529 ft²
11/2007 $435,000 #2H 553 ft²
11/2007 $520,000 #4L 649 ft²
12/2007 $575,000 #2B 1 bed 736 ft²
12/2007 $485,000 #1I 1 bed 692 ft²
12/2007 ↑ $630,000 #5T 1 bed 699 ft²
12/2007 $625,000 80 #5D 1 bed 688 ft²

2008 (Year Entered in Contract)
01/2008 $1,459,000 #PHT 3 beds 1,296 ft²
01/2008 $1,095,000 #PHK 2 beds 1,242 ft²
01/2008 $475,000 #1U 680 ft²
02/2008 $550,000 #4G 1 bed 686 ft²
02/2008 ↑ $530,000 #1T 1 bed 699 ft²
03/2008 $635,000 #PHP 1 bed 711 ft²
03/2008 $425,000 #1K 548 ft²
04/2008 $1,175,000 #PHQ 2 beds 1,218 ft²
04/2008 $535,000 #2D 1 bed 688 ft²
04/2008 $410,000 #2F 555 ft²
05/2008 $560,000 #2T 1 bed 699 ft²
06/2008 $1,849,000 Townhouse 3 beds 2,361 ft²
06/2008 $1,425,000 #PHA 2 beds 1,368 ft²
06/2008 $470,000 #5F 555 ft²

2009 (Year Entered in Contract)
02/2009 $565,000 #5G 1 bed 686 ft²
02/2009 ↑ $489,000 #3L 649 ft²
04/2009 $410,000
12/2009 $1,175,000 #PHS 2 beds 1,203 ft²
12/2009 ↓ $799,000 #2S 2 beds 1,050 ft²

2010 (Year Entered in Contract)
01/2010 $1,290,000 #5K 3 beds 1,614 ft²

J1972: that is another building by the same Dev. --wont block views

SamW, no offense if I am wrong, but you seem a little biased
a bldg the same height as 80 met about 10 yards to the west of 80 met will clearly block the views of the units facing directly west

"i think they are doing really well."
can I ask what you base this statement on?

BillyRes - that compilation is very helpful, people should take note. Thanks for that.

Please correct me if I'm wrong but I was referring to the building coming up on the south facing side of 80 met, not the west side. Its still in its infancy with only structure in place.

Do you mean the bldg on north 1st (like 60-something n 1st)-- the old structure that they added about two more floors on top of? if so-- it is about he same height as 80 met and will obviously block the views if you are directly across from it to some extent-- the bldg is already completed so you can prob get a first hand look.

oh sorry, I misunderstood
you obv mean the contstruction site-- I do not know what is planned there but it likely will be the maximum allowed (70 feet?)same as adjacent structure

Thanks kiz10014 for the info

has anyone had issues with offers and/or closings. I have heard recent horror stories about the way the sales office is ran?

i'd love to hear from ppl who have bought at 80 met, too. i'm considering and also looking at another bldg. would like to know what the recent horror stories and issues with offers & closings are about.

cynetvin,

i decided to buy here and i am completely unaware of "horror stories" and "issues with offers & closings." i'm planning on closing quickly so i will post on the experience. while many of the comments i've read have been helpful, many are not - making this site a great place for both information and misinformation. as far as this building is concerned, imo this was the best construction in the area, had the best finishes and best common space and amenities per resident. some folks on this post have been focused on the supposed attitude of the in-house broker and the depth of the swimming pool, which just goes to show that they are not focused on what is being sold here. my experience with the in-house broker was just fine and i'm sure that the insurance is cheaper on a pool with 4 feet of dept (in all fairness, i don't swim). i'll be able to tell you about the closing process in about a month, hopefully debunking some of the comments that have been made. good luck with your search.

j76 - what did you buy? did you get any concessions?

You can negotiate, although it is my belief that there is less room to negotiate here than other properties that are in the area. They seem to have more confidence in their product - and I came to the conclusion that they indeed had a better product. I'm not going to comment on specifics, personal or otherwise, you're going to need to rely on the public information from ACRIS. The reason for my posting was so that people like me (non-broker, in the market for a condo in Williamsburg) could understand what the experience was like. My way of giving back to a post that has been relatively helpful to me. I am clearly hoping that everything goes smoothly from here and if it does not I will be sure to share.

You are not concerned about buying in a new development that is only 20% sold?

J76 I am in agreement with you and I'm thinking of going into a 2bedroom here as I think highly of the construction and details put into this building. Which line are you in? I'm considering the S line,south facing, which has good southern exposures and partial bridge views. The one big dilemma I have is to get pass that 4 floor addition going up in front of 80 Met, which will block some views. I'm going back and forth on it as to how much this will affect re-sale later. Thoughts?

Isn't every new development only 20% sold at some point?

Yes, but is my answer.
After 2 years and a half of sales, and months after the TCO was issued, 20% is very low. Some new developments in Williamsburg sold out in months during the same period. Current buyers are taking a huge risk IMO.

maly, I'm really not worried - not sure what developments you are referring to, but some buildings in the area were able to sell based on their ability to lower their prices (something 80 met refused to do, but have now done) and their ability to get approved for FHA loans (something that they were also able to do just recently).

j1972, i never looked at the S line, but with respect to resale in the future, I like that in 10 years from now, when I'm probably ready to move, I can tell the buyer that they have 15 more years on their tax abatement.

j76 thanks and right on with the 15 yr tax abatement which is a a big plus

j76 thanks and right on with the 15 yr tax abatement which is a a big plus

"making this site a great place for both information and misinformation. as far as this building is concerned, imo this was the best construction in the area, had the best finishes and best common space and amenities per resident. some folks on this post have been focused on the supposed attitude of the in-house broker and the depth of the swimming pool, which just goes to show that they are not focused on what is being sold here. my experience with the in-house broker was just fine and i'm sure that the insurance is cheaper on a pool with 4 feet of dept (in all fairness, i don't swim). i'll be able to tell you about the closing process in about a month, hopefully debunking some of the comments that have been made. good luck with your search."

J76...there is a difference between misinformation and information that does not put the building in a positive light. if you want to see misinformation visit the disussion board for THE EDGE...you have silly comments discussing the pending bankruptcy of the project with no facts.
As far as saying the pool is 4ft deep(like pools at Edge, Toren ect) that is not misinformation just a perhaps an overlooked fact. As for the sales team it should bother you that someone(me) who loved your building from the outside was unable to get anyone on the phone for over 2wks. Just not business savvy. As i am in contract in a fully sold building in the immediate area nothing would make me happier than for 80 Met to sell out at existing prices. As far as I'm concerned you should want the sales staff to be contacting potential buyers...right??

moxieland,

I hear what you are saying, but if you read my comments, I'm not saying the pool and your experience with the sales staff is "information" or "misinformation." I only said that I didn't believe that was really important -- in my opinion. Also, there is defineltly misinformation that can be found within these 388 posts and also a bunch of helpful information -- both positive and negative.

If I end up having a negative experience I will share it with this post, but so far, I have had a good experience. If someone didn't call me back for 2 weeks, I would be upset too, I just didn't have that experience.

I'm happy that you have had a good experience. I hope many more people do as well and buy the remaining units. It would be great to see 80 met, NSP 1 and 2, and the Edge all sell out. I believe 80 met has the best chance of winning that race. If we see those sales in north bburg it would be a great signal that prices are stabilizing.
Maybe i just caught the sales team at a bad time??? who knows??

I had a good experience with the sale team. However, I think at this point they should help themselves by posting some better pictures of the building and units, instead of relying on renderings and pics that don't do justice to the interior of the units.

Me too, would like to hear a bit more from people who closed and now live at 80 Met. We're considering an offer for a 2BR.

I'm close to making an offer in 80 met but The edge also. Anyone have any views between these two developments? I personally feel strongly for both, for different reasons. Thoughts anyone?

80 Met square footage is accurate, but the edge is way off. livable space at the edge is about 75% of quoted sguare footage

marco_m thanks for the sq ft count. Would love to hear other opinions from you as you seem to know both buildings well.

I would also factor in how many units need to be sold at each place...while % bought is very important for lending options,total units left to sell is extremely pertinent for the running of the building(and to avoid the dreaded part owned/part rented)..i can not find the total number of units at the Edge but assume it has to be much higher than the 123 units at 80 met...for that reason i would feel much more comfortable with an 80 met purchase. my 2 cents

the edge is the better building in my opinion. of course Im also a sucker for the golf simulator.

I think both bldgs have pluses and minuses, depending on individual preferences--and eventually (hopefully if stability is reached) both will be great places to live
but as you can see very few people are buying at current prices-- either they will lower prices or they will hold them for years until current pricing becomes the market price (less likely)
either way, why would one buy now, you are basically guaranteed in the red on day 1

its my guy feeling(though I could be wrong)that both these buildings, especially 80 Met is not going to lower any more than they have. If this is the case in not sure how long more to wait...I'm hoping as spring/summer approaches that sales will pick up

I think they will both lower prices more. NSP is cutting deals left and right because Toll Brothere is under pressure.

J1972-- they do seem quite stubborn, but i think sooner or later they will have to meet the market
either way, whats the harm in waiting--they stil have about 70 units to sell