80 Metropolitan

marco...thanks for the insight...can you pls explain in a little further Toll Bothere and NSP, I'm not familiar.

Toll Brothers are sitting on 2 very undersold and expensive projects. 303 East 33rd and Two Northside Piers.

Thank marco....with the hood being in this limbo/transitional phase I wonder what the "mirror ball" predicts for the burg in 6-8 years time in terms of the developmental state of affairs with the current over development, especially with the influx of lower quality buildings. I'm hope higher quality buildings like 80 met and The Edge will stand the test of time and thrive in the years to come

They need to improve their schools...then families will move in

I think the two buildings are quite different. So from that perspective is a matter of taste. I have no idea what's going on in terms of sales at the edge, but the high-rise thing has never attracted me, so I never really looked into it.

I agree that it is primarily a matter of taste. I think both are good developments. In my opinion, the edge is one notch up, though.
The one thing that I don't like at 80 met is the air conditioning with air ducts. This is a lower quality system (noisier, less energy efficient) then at the edge.

With 15 year tax abatements, a lot of short-mid term WB investors will likely look to sell half way through. Like taking the L-train in the morning, better get there early, so I'd say years 5 - 7 will see the start of significant resales. Hopefully, 80 Met/NSP/Edge will have made a real effort to sell in some form or another by then...

The more I think about it, the more it doesn't make sense. The thing about 80 Met that may be frustrating for people who are ready to buy is that so many units are tied up "in contract" that will become available. So unless you're truly interested in what's listed now at current prices, you kinda have to wait for those in contract to shit or get off the pot. I wonder why the developer is allowing people to sit on the shitter for so long. If it were me and I were truly adamant about maintaining current pricing, I'd knock on the bathroom door about now and give them 10 minutes to finish up or I'm kicking their asses out. Aassuming there're really people still in the bathrooms... hmm....

freewilly- i think the problem is the price not the lack of available units

also there are 50+ units that they have not yet listed-- what's up with those?

kiz - i agree with you, just trying to figure out the developer's angle. I think consensus is that they're unwilling to (openly) discount prices. Ok, then the listings in contract since 2007 should bounce back up to available, right? I can't imagine negotiations taking this long. Something smells fishy. The 50+ units not being listed - fishy too. The only conclusion I can make is that relisting everything sends a bad message to the market, so they're sitting back for as long as they can.

I think it may be necessary for buyers to get financing, since banks add closed and in contract units to get to their magical 50%. If they dropped the "in contract" units whose buyers abandoned, they might have less than 25% of the units spoken for.
It's just a theory though.

sooner or later they're gonna have to come clean.

Not only is there a lot of inventory in 80 met, but also , The Edge and NSP, amongst others...all in that's alot of apts to be sold in one neighborhood. My fear is for these buildings may turn in to rentals which will de-value each bought condo.

Are there any legal restrictions on how long an apartment can stay "in contract"?

maly: On target.

So if I were in contract, rather than walking away from my deposit, I'd use that fact as leverage to demand price protection. If prices should fall, I might reconsider. If they don't, I'll kick back on the couch and drink beer with the developer for a few years until I'm no longer welcome. Looks like this could drag...

I'm not sure its all for banking purposes- they have FHA and fannie mae approval

I think the major reason they continue to fraudulently put forth inactive contracts as sales is for marketing purposes-- it is a lot easier to sell more units when they tell prospective buyers "we're more than 50% sold" rather than "only 25 units have closed". they are publicly bragging this again in the brooklyn eagle:

http://www.brooklyneagle.com/categories/category.php?category_id=5&id=34010

also from Crains 2/9/10

"The 114-unit, loft-like condo, 80 Metropolitan, developed by Steiner NYC, announced Tuesday that 50% of its units are in contract or sold, with 11 signings in the past 60 days alone."

interesting that 2 months later in bklyn eagle they are still quoting the exact same 11 signings in last 60 days. Did history repeat itself?

shady. we'll see how things are goin a month from now

Anyone here living in an H-line apartment? If so, what's the noise level from Wyeth St and Metropolitan Ave?

ap2492 - live in the area and super happy with school choices. prek at ps 84 (which is a magnet, so can accept kids from any zone) has space, a terrific prek program and amazing dual language program for K and above. also, ps 31 in south greenpoint, is also a magnet, and is considered one of the top elementary schools in all of new york city. because of it's magnet status, they take kids from all over. both of these schools are super convenient to 80 met.
families are moving in and having babies like crazy. wonderful community. if you have kids, please realize that this is one of the nicest and most helpful communities that you could ever want. very strong yahoo group, brooklynbabyhui. there are about 40 kids in our smallish condo fyi.

for additional classes, there are tons of wonderful resources - greenpoint y, ms. j's gymnastics (also does pick up and play from 84), spacecraft, strebs, sounddance, painted cloud (does pick up from 132), williamsburg movement center, multiple karate centers, soccer classes in mccarren park, etc...

There are a lot of young families in this area. Couldn't agree more about the supportive community of parents.

I posted 5 weeks ago when I entered into contract. Closing was a breeze and I have been living here a few days and absolutely love it. Sponsor was super accessible and helpful through the process.

Congrats j76. As i am soon to move into the area as well the next most important question is clear..where do you get a decent slice of pizza in billyburg?

j76 - am about to make an offer for a unit. Can you share any insight as to Sponsor's flexibility re price, closing costs, etc? Understand if you don't want to provide specifics, but some hints would be helpful. Thanks!

Nypaloto, I think that the data that is out there (Street Easy and ACRIS) accurately reflects the sponsor's flexibility (or lack thereof - depending on what you think is reasonable) and my understanding is that you really need to choose your bargaining angle, e.g. extra amenities or price. I would recommend trying to find a co-real estate broker or mortgage broker that has had a client close in the building. I know that I am now truly invested in this place now and completely bias as a result, but this building is excellent.

Most importantly, Moxie, Fornino's has great pizza and there are some good sliced pizza joints along Bedford and a few bars that offer free subpar pizza (but pizza is pizza) with every drink you order.

Good luck to everyone!

I'd be very careful buying here. Only around 10 units have actually closed. If building is over 50% sold, why only 10 closed? I'd ask the developer to prove how many units have actually closed before signing a contract. Only a matter of time before a fire sale begins or they convert half the building into rentals.

totally agreed! they haven't been clear with sales report, it seems so wrong.

j76 - anything you can comment on? Does it feel as if only 10 units have sold?

NY_NY your conjectures are questionable at best, more like total fabrication

pizza - motorino on graham ainslie - fabulous also, baci and abbraci on grand between bedford and driggs. love fornino too. for old school, driggs pizza on driggs between n.7th and n.6th - reliable for delivery. other places are to eat there.

Only 10 units closed? Why say such BS?

Agreed N77, I live here and I know that's not true. NY_NY, I'm not sure what your motives are but you are wrong - just go on ACRIS or pay the $10 per month street easy membership fee. Nypaloto, these posts have a way of drawing other brokers, people negative about the housing market, and people who walked away from their deposits because they entered into contract before the housing bubble burst(of whom I truly feel sorry for). Get a good Mortgage broker and a good lawyer and get the real story. And let's put it this way, my bank wouldn't have let me close if it wasn't >30%.

N77, J76, it seems like the prices for some units have come down to a more reasonable level--have you noticed an increase in activity there, it seems they haven't posted a new contract signing or sale in a few weeks

I see some activity on the weekends, but I'm not sure how things are going.

Am close to agreeing on an offer - so here's a bit of activity.

Nypaloto: did you pull the trigger?

To those who have looked here- which units did you like? which do you feel offer the best value?

Jabra - am pulling as we write...

Cool, keep us updated! Thanks!

Speaking of activity, I have just signed a contract myself. I have been really impressed with the building, neighborhood and how smoothly all negotiations have gone so far. In terms of the negativity that has popped up on this post, my 2 cents are that there will always be people who have something bad to say about pretty much everything. Like j76, I feel badly for those who got caught in the credit crisis, and I completely understand that those people would be angry about the whole situation. But from my perspective, I think Williamsburg has a bright future and 80 Met is a really solid medium- to long-term investment.

sing80 can you make any comment on my above post:

To those who have looked here- which units did you like? which do you feel offer the best value?

Kiz, I’m trying to think of a helpful answer. I think they all offer good value now. If I had a larger family, I would have gone with one of the townhouses at 1.25 asking (seems like a great deal to me especially with a backyard and parking space). The apartments facing Wythe seem to be a little cheaper (additional traffic on Wythe since the city re routed Kent Ave, but not nearly as bad as a avenues in Manhattan), I also like the corner units. They have 3 Bedroom, 3 Bathroom apartments that seem very rare – a lot of variety here. What are you looking for?

BTW, after having been here a month, I am very relieved to find that buyers here are consciences home owners that care about their investment.

Thanks j76, was looking at the 2 bdrms, i like the corner units as well, the LR,s seem to be bigger in those
good to hear youve had a positive experience, i think the fact that they have begun to show pricing flexibility will begin to translate to sales. it seems to be one of the best move-in ready bldg in wmsburg-- my only concern has been its ability to sell out
do you live on the wythe side? have there been complaints of traffic noise there or on met ave?

Hey did everyone see this on Curbed? Posted 6:12 pm on May 19th...

"WILLIAMSBURG—Writes an eagle-eyed tipster, "Looked at the streeteasy listings for 80 Metropolitan in Williamsburg today, and it appears that half of the units already in contract have their prices listed as chopped as of 5/17/10... What does this mean? How can a price be chopped AFTER it's entered into contract??" Maybe to reduce the "listing discount" from the final ask to the sale price? Maybe not? All conspiracy theories considered! [CurbedWire Inbox]"

I was told by my citi habitats broker that several of the stale contract listings are sponsor units.

This building has been very opaque from the get-go. It is pretty clear they are playing games, and the motive has to be to deceive prospective buyers, but anything further is hard to fathom.
I think the contract info should be very suspect: how could units in contract months after the closings started be valid?

Jabra,

It's my understanding that the listing price on a unit can be changed once a unit is in contract for all sorts of legitimate reasons (new appraisal would be one reason). It's also my understanding that the people that entered into contract before the building was completed (seems nuts to me even in a strong market)are still negotiating instead of walking away. My understanding is also that the broker does not plan on owning any units.

Marco_m, several weeks ago you said this place was going to fall flat on its face and you also seemed to suggest that it was the equivalent of some snobby exclusive nightclub that wouldn't let you in. You have a lot of facts and the best you can do is say that your citi-habitats broker told you so? If you are interested in buying here you should have your lawyer or broker investigate and stop with your campaign of misinformation.

Maly, what do you mean by "playing games?"

I'm beginning to think I smell a broker, or two.

I have to admit, seeing some of your posts early on in the process of negotiations made me a little nervous, but I have now bought here, and I've done extensive due diligence. I hope that any serious buyer would do the same and not be thrown off by these posts.

Your sense of smell is off. I am definitely not a broker, and I don't believe Marco-m is either. I'm just sceptical about the value of new developments in general, especially when I see disinformation.
Since you recently bought, and you did "extensive due diligence", maybe you can share how many actually sold?
The "in contract" number is obviously cooked up (see BillyRes post about the age of the contracts for evidence.). Maybe they are more forthcoming with buyers?
I really have no problem with people buying at any price; different people value their quality of life vs. financial health differently, and there is no one right answer for everyone. I do have a problem with Pollyannas who deny the risk of buying in such a slow, maybe deflating building.

j76 - Pretty much second everything you wrote. I'm in contract and - obviously - went through several layers of due diligence before moving forward (with my attorney and lender). Like with almost every new Condo, there are issues that need to be verified and, like with almost every new Condo, you need to find your personal balance between risks and returns. I feel very comfortable with the building and sponsor, and the process has been smooth and collaborative so far. Have not closed yet, but really don't anticipate any hiccups. Will keep posting.

Maly,

"Pollyannas?" Nice. Thank you for efforts in saving us hopelessly optimistic people from ourselves. Who's denying the risk? I have done extensive due dilligence, through my bank, my mortgage broker and my attorney and that's truly my business. Furthermore, I am here in the building and have met the several people that live here and people are moving in on a weekly basis.

The building is at least 35% sold. That's a fact. Regarding the "in contract" status, people simply do not want to walk away from their $100K+ deposits. You hit the nail on the head with that observation a few posts ago. Also, some banks won't dish out certain mortgages until the building hits a certain % of units sold (I have friends that fall into this category). Is it beneficial to have listings in contract? Of course it is. Look around, it's happening everywhere.

Are you referring to the BillyRes post where he copies and pastes info from his paid streeteasy account? Buy a membership, it's great. Best of luck with your crusade.

p.s. Sorry for insinuating that you might be a broker.

I think the sales guy Jay is a douche is what it comes down to. I was 5k away from goin into contract on 1v about 3 months ago and Im thankin my lucky stars I didnt. Nothing against bburg, but im stayin in yorkville.

marco_m, see, now that's fair. I had so many bad experiences with brokers that soured me on other buildings. I had a good experience with Jay, and I don't know what to say, but I understand.

Nypaloto, I was really freaked out through the process of closing, mostly because the banks seem to have added layers to the process, but the Steiner folks were super responsive and no hiccups. Moved in the next day (make sure you set that up with them in advance if you’re planning a quick move), also check with the front desk about the FIOS offers for the building before you set it up with Verizon.

j76 - am not planning on moving in the next day, but start doing some minor changes to the apartment (i.e. replace the odd wall color). As to FIOS, am currently with them so not quite sure if/how I can change the contract. Either way, my current deal with Verizon is attractive.

Any other tips you can share re move-in, etc? By the way, do you have a cabana? I backed away from buying one, but am not sure anymore if I made the right decision. Same with the storage space.

I can only comment on my own situation. I was in contract. I decided months ago not to move forward. "My unit" has been and continues to be listed as "In Contract" by Halstead. It is one of the units in contract that was price chopped.

If you you have the funds, are comfortable with the risks in this current economy, and can stick around for a few years, you should look beyond the broker experience and seriously consider 80 Met. You won't find a better building in terms of quality. (I visited this past weekend and noticed another glass and metal building that popped up on Bedford in a matter of months!)

of course there is some deceit with leaving these units listed as in contract, i think the important thing however for those who like the bldg but are questioning its ability to sell, is that the developer now seems to understand the current market pricing and is lowering the price on many units-- look at 2A, a decent 2 bdrm layout for 600/psf-- compare to other things for sale in the area, thats actually a pretty good deal, actually cheaper than those berry bldgs that sold out in a blink of an eye. this is definitely a better bldg, and now at a competitve price.

nypaloto-- how much are the roof cabanas going for?

BillyRes, would you buy at the new "chopped" price? Do you think it's a signal from the developer to come back and negotiate, or purely a deceptive marketing move by Halstead?

kiz10014: That listing is deceiving, since the $604/sqft is calculated based on the inclusion of the rooftop cabana. What if I don't want a cabana? If we estimate cabanas to go for 50k, then the price of a 993 sqft 2 bed 3 bath would be around $654/sqft. I'm not saying that's a bad deal, but just not as good as one might think.

Nypaloto,

My buying broker (a Corcoran broker) said that the walk through that we did together produced the shortest punch list he had ever seen, so you should be good on that front. I would only suggest getting your order for blinds in as soon as you can. Also, used Moishe's for moving and they were fantastic. They send this group of guys led by a guy name Walter. They're the smallest group of movers I have ever seen, but they are strong as heck and fast. They went way above and beyond the call of duty and I have seen them moving in two people since I moved in almost a month ago.

Re: Cabanas. I personally never liked the idea. There is a nice common area that is going to be furnished (and the Zen Garden is very nice). It's not like we live in Miami.

Sorry I meant 2 bed 2 bath...typo my bad

j76 - Appreciate your tips. Will look into Moishe's and keep you posted on the developments. By the way, have they hired a lifeguard?

I think BillyRes deserves a complementary unit for all his posts over this 2 yr thread.

thanks BillyRes! Good luck!

So BillyRes, you are just going to sit on your deposit, until they make a reasonable adjustment on your contract price?

Even worse than that, look at it again. On the Halstead site, there is no mention of the cabana being included in the 699k price. The advertised SF is 1200, the actual SF is about 950. You are paying $735 per SF, that is no bargain.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
kiz10014: That listing is deceiving, since the $604/sqft is calculated based on the inclusion of the rooftop cabana. What if I don't want a cabana? If we estimate cabanas to go for 50k, then the price of a 993 sqft 2 bed 3 bath would be around $654/sqft. I'm not saying that's a bad deal, but just not as good as one might think.

I think prices are getting very close with most of the others in the area right now. Especially off the record. Of course, not every building can have the same price as not all of them are of the same quality. I still think that what is slowing them down in this economy are CCs and not so great advertising. On the other hand I can say that life here for the last 5 months have been pretty sweet. We'll see where they're at after the summer.

Very close to purchasing in the building. To those who currently live/are in contract/considering purchasing what are the good & bad things so far about the building and surrounding area?

Specifically curious about how much they are willing to negotiate & how many people are currently living in the building?

Thanks

80 seems like a quality constructed building, and the floor plans are conventional and not weird like some places.

Downside is that it's in a rather deserted area of Williamsburg, and a farther walk to the Bedford L than some other locations on the north side. Not saying that it's not safe or that the walk is ridiculously far, and more stuff will probably be built around there in the future, but it currently feels kind of deserted.

bob_d, definitely. I can see how some buyers might see that as a plus, in that they're close enough to everything without ever really having to contend with noisy street revelers, tourists, and the like, but it certainly feels a bit "removed." 14 Hope has a similar feel, but it seems as though that area is getting more populated with shops, bars, and eateries by the week.

It feels deserted in a bad industrial way, rather than a good quiet residential way (like a tree-linked block in Park Slope full of brownstones).

How noisy does Williamsburg really get? I know there are a lot of bars there, but I don't live there so I don't have an idea. I find it hard to imagine any apartment being noisier than where I currently live, a residential block in Manhattan which looks deceptively quiet, but there are always police sirens and garbage trucks and stuff waking me up.

pg40 - I think most of your questions have been covered in this thread. I'm in contract so can't comment on the pros and cons of living in the building or the neighborhood yet. But in my view it's one of the best buildings in Williamsburg in terms of design, layout, build, size and location. My experience with the negotiations mirrors a bit what j76 wrote a bit earlier: the Sponsor seems quite stubborn. Occupancy has also been mentioned before and should be around 40% now.

bob_d - As always, it's a matter of personal taste and lifestyle. What you describe as "deserted" is off-beat to me, and that's what I like about 80 Met (close to everything, but not in the middle of it). And your "bad industrial way" is exactly what most people, me included, love about Williamsburg (and hope it'll stay like this for a while).

j76 - mind sharing what homeowner's insurance you went with?

nypaloto, we ended up going with nationwide. nothing spectacular there, though. glad to have you on board!

Hi! Does anyone know why in the chart of Activity for this Building so many units are listed as "Off-Market"? What does this mean? Are these units which were sold so long ago that they're no longer on ACRIS? Are they units the Sponsor/Developer wants to combine or something? It only adds to the "opaque" reputation of this building. Curious now but should I be concerned if I decide to buy here?

58 Met now on the market. Curious how this will play out.

It's been months since most of 80 met could be occupied, apparently, so any read on how many closings have actually taken place. Does it seem many actually walked away? ....and has 58 met had any impact

We visited 3 weeks ago. We were told more than 50% were in contract but he kind of said it in a trailing voice which made me think that wasn't accurate. There were a good number of residents in the elevators and hallways. So it seems a good number has closed although I did not ask how many. Broker said they are very negotiable, much like NSP and Edge told us. They just started showing 58 Met. 58 Met is basically the same but with lower maintenance and only 15 year abatement. I'm not sure how negotiable they are but I personally prefer 80 Met...both don't have views, both use the amenities in 80 Met, both are of the same quality. Since 58 met has no other advantages except maintenance I think 80 Met will still be the preferred building.

Have looked seriously in this building, and they are they say about 60% sold (obviously including in-contract, not yet closed), but it's puzzling to see so many unclosed contracts. Anyone know what is going on? My read looking at recent closings is that they have offered some discounts but nothing massive..

i was told the stale contracts are actually sponsor units

Any thoughts on the investment return value of 80 met at say 700psf vs. edge at say 25% higher cost but with a decent but not perfect view (will be blocked in part by later building) and balcony......just wondering...Less cash outlay at 80 met, similar amenities but the edge amenities seems way more open, fun, actually likely to be used. I am SURE the Edge is worth more on a high floor with some view and balcony but I wonder if it is better to limit market exposure and go for something more modest....

and before someone starts yelling, by investment return i mean...if the re market goes up or down, which seems more likely to do better on a relative basis..(not looking for a tedious anti-wmburg or anti-buying repeat of what is posted hundreds of times a week)

The tiny indoor swimming pool at 80 Met is mostly useless (and the room will be locked when a lifeguard isn't on duty), so I'll have to assume the Edge swimming pool will be a much more useful amenity, if you are into swimming pools (but I haven't toured the Edge so I have no first-hand knowledge).

That said, 25% is a big price difference. Maybe The Edge will come down in price?

Having this debate myself.
80 Met pluses:
- Building look and feel (Feels like a loft conversion even though its not.
- Ceiling Height
- Windows/Light (all the units have good light interior units at the edge do not - and the windows are super cool)
- Price (cheaper by at least 10%/ft)
- Smaller Building (I consider this a plus)
- Vent Fan in Kitchen (I know its a LEED thing but its nice to have the vent to get ride of the kitchen smells quickly)
- AC/Heating (I prefer the window units like 80 met and the base of edge. The tower has a central air type system that cannot be completely turned off... its always blowing a little air in.)
- Floors - (I believe the brazillian hardwood is harder and more expensive then the white oak at edge)

Edge Pluses
- Amentities (Best in NYC - Amazin Pool, Gym, Sauna, Gameroom, Childrens Playroom, Virtual Golf!)
- Location (More Central closer to the L)
- Common Charges (They're the same but you get more Amenities for them).
- Views (sometimes great, sometimes okay, sometimes awful (interior)
- Finishes (The finishes at the 80 Met are really nice... if I was remodeling a place myself I probably would make similar decisions...but the edge is better. Safe in closet. More expensive cabinets, nicer sink, more expensive tile, nicer medicine cabinets with medicine lock boxes, $6000 refrigerator versus a $4000, etc).
- Bathroom Sink - (Gets special mention because the sink in the edge bathroom is so small).

On the Sink comment I meant 80 met.

"Edge Pluses - Location (More Central closer to the L) "

I disagree with that, 80 Met, I think, is a slightly shorter walk to the L, they are both not that close.

what is the story on that central unit at the edge ALWAYS blowing air in? It just seems weird you can't just cut it off. I mean, if you're regulating your ac/heat presumably you can turn that up/down or off....so what is it that you can NEVER turn off altogether. And is that something running IN your apartment, meaning a fan making noise that you can never turn off. Seems odd......

bob - the edge is like 4 short blocks to the L - so huh? it's close.

Am biased (80 Met owner), but really think NYNYNYNYNY's comparison is spot on. Market movements aside, I do think 80 Met will have a long term edge (!) over the rather dull towers (current & planned) along the river. It'll stand out as unique boutique-like condo (despite its size). And that, I think and hope, will help increase its value.

I lived in a building once with a HVAC system that looked the same as the edge towers. The units were always blowing a little bit of air. I think this is to keep fresh air circulating in what otherwise is a very well sealed structure. When you actually turn on the ac or heat it heats or cools the air in the air shaft that otherwise would be blowing into the unit at an ambient temperature and in an ambient way. In my previous experience, the unit makes just a little noise in its non heating cooling ambient state... But can not be turned off completely. Not a big deal in my opinion but something to think about if your super noise sensative.

"bob - the edge is like 4 short blocks to the L - so huh? it's close."

Go to Google maps and look for yourself. They are equidistant. I would prefer a closer place because I'm lazy. My current apartment is closer to a subway stop than either 80 Met or The Edge.

Also, the very name "The Edge" should alert you that the building is at the edge of Williamsburg and not the center (where the L train and cool shops and restaurants are).

I really think it comes down if you are into a high-rises or a more integrated building. I chose the latter, but to each his/her own I guess. Though 25% more seems unjustified at this point. Also far as location I liked 80 Met better. The "cool" places aren't really in the "center" anyway as you might at think at first.

Thanks guys. To me, both places have significant drawbacks and advantages. 80 met "feel" is a little sterile for my taste, but it is more human-sized, and quality seems good on just about everything, except the ac/heat thing is not ideal. Edge is too big but has cool views, and the amenities just seem a lot more open and fun and well-lit etc than at 80 met. The pool at the edge looks cool where it is situated if nothing else.

bob - google? r u kidding? i've lived in WB for years. the edge is very close to the subway! these blks are so short. kent to wythe, wythe to berry, berry to bedford. really, your comment is nuts. metropolitan is like, what n. 1st? i'm not sure . met 80 is further, but who cares! both walks are no big deal. i'm on the northside and I walk to the J or M stop most days which is only 15 minutes. also, i have a kid who's in school at on the southish end and is at the Y in greenpoint all the time, so i walk like 20 - 25 minutes without blinking.
and, i might add, walking is very good for you. i walk at least 30+ minutes every day.

Is the Edge on leased land or will the ownership be fee simple?

"bob - google? r u kidding?"

As far as I know, their maps are accurate.

"who cares! both walks are no big deal"

When it's freezing during the winter or raining or snowing, is it still no big deal?

Challenge the sales team and ensure you have a complete understanding of their definition of "Sold". According to Streeteasy only 42 units have closed. I understand some units may have been combined to improve layouts. However, if there are still approximately 120 units total, then only 35% of the units are technically sold. To include units that are "In Contract" in the sold category is a bit misleading. The unit that I am no longer purchasing (signed contract in Feb. 2008) is still listed as "In Contract".

Comparing the Edge to 80 Metropolitan is like comparing apples to oranges. Two different products. If you poll the current owners at 80 Met, most will tell you that they selected the development, not because it was a better value, but because it is NOT like the other buildings in style, construction, image, size, and most notably feel. For those struggling with the price and comparing who has more amenities, I suggest taking two steps back and instead determine which building is more you - 400 units, floor to ceiling windows or 100 units with a warehouse feel. Low rise vs. high rise. Two different feels. Personally, I find glass buildings hard to live in (check out all the new glass buildings around the City - most of the residences have their shades pulled down all the time because of the extreme sun exposure and privacy issues) and appreciate 80 Met's understated appearance. It is a great solid building.

As for the walk to the L, when did 6 minutes become too long and far for a New Yorker? If you prefer to be in places like Times Square, Broadway on the UWS, the Meatpacking on a weekend night, or Union Square, the quieter location of 80 Metropolitan is not for you. If you prefer less bustling areas like Tribeca or perhaps the far West Village, then you should consider 80 Metropolitan.

Billyres, I understand they are quite different. The relative "investment" merits was what I was wondering about, but I don't have a clue. One thing -- for those who have outdoor space at 80 Met the ptac units in the walls at all the other units are ultra, super loud and annoying (from the inside, with the windows closed, they don't sound bad at all ), which renders the outdoor space way less enjoyable to use. Another negative at 80 met is the very long hallway, not broken up by anything really -- makes it feel more institutional, not to mention being a long walk if you're at the end of it.

buyerbuyer: I have an outdoor terrace and the building AC units make the space less than ideal. So I can relate to your concern assuming I understand your description correctly. If you like the building otherwise, this might be one of your "compromises". The building layout is a big L. I agree, long corridors can feel like a hotel. You won't get the views but perhaps you should consider one of the properties along the short part of the L on Wythe. They are very nice and luxurious hallways though.

There is so much inventory out there that it is nearly impossible to determine which property will be the better investment. However, I think 80 Met is already establishing itself as a quiet building with solid construction. I think it will continue to slowly march to its own beat in a very unassuming way, attracting people who like that simplicity. And because of that characteristic, I think people will tend to stay in the building for a longer period of time (or hold onto the property for rental). This combined with fewer units will make 80 Met a desriable building. Now assume it is 5 years later and all units have been sold. If and when a unit finally comes onto the market, it will be highly desirable. In contrast, there may be 10 units at the Edge available at one time competing against one another or against the 10 other units available at the similar Northside Piers for a buyer. The supply for the 80 Met product is much lower and will always be compared to the Edge.

I suggest revisiting both properties again (and again and again if necessary). You have the luxury of time in this market to do the appropriate due diligence that will support an adequate comfort level.