offer - counteroffer

Have Keith Burkhardt represent you, he will refund 2/3rds of his half of the broker's fee. That will easily offset whatever fee incentive the owner may have on a one-sided deal. As important, you will have a solid broker fiduciarily representing you and your interests. He will respond to your emails, he will help figure out how to deal with an unresponsive broker, etc.

Kar3F - Doesnt sound like the offer was presented in the best light but you still should have got a response from the selling broker. The emailed offer should have a) offer letter w/ details of offer and your financial situation, lending plans and attorney information, b) financial statement with your basic assets/liabilities/salary info and c) per-qualification from a lender if financing. The (c) item can be sent in if requested later.

Now, regarding your theory of "i dont have a buyer broker so I should get a sick deal and save 3% or more", sorry to say but it doesnt really work that way and your seeing that in the field right now. First off, most listing agreement structures are tiered for co-broke and direct deal. Its usually NOT your typical 6% if there is a buyer broker, 3% if there isnt.

Second, the market is quite active right now with lower inventory from this time last year or two years ago. Its not the best environment for low ball offers. Still, you should have got a response.

Third, if your offer is sent in writing, the seller broker must convey to their client. Ive had situations where my seller would say "Dont bother sending me an offer if its below $x,xxx,xxx". In these situations, when I got an offer below I would still send it over to my client and add a note in the email that I must forward all written offers.

A good buyers broker, and Keith certain is one with a unique rebate model, will guide you through this process that usually does get bumpy at some point. Some buyers absolutely dont want representation, and thats fine. Hopefully u get good advice and comments here, and not crap from the trolls

thank Inonada, I've seen you promoting Keith Burkhardt before. Do you work for him?

Separately though, I think it is too late to bring in a buyer's broker. I already told them I was coming without a broker in my email so I don't think they would accept me bringing in a broker.
Any thoughts whether there is anything I can do regarding this particular apartment?

Thanks UrbanDigs, I only sent an email to the seller's broker with the price and the estimated downpayment and that I was pre-qualified. I also mentioned that I spoke with the bank and am confident that there would be no issue with the mortgage. I did not provide financials but said I can provide more info upon their request. But have not heard anything else. Maybe there is another offer, but if that were the case, I would think the seller's broker would try to get me to up my offer above the other... Without doing that, how are they fulfilling their responsibilities to their seller?
What do you suggest I do now regarding this exact apartment.

It is clearly too late to use a buyer's broker for this particular apartment, so is there anything else I can do?

I will consider the buyer's broker if I look at a different apartment, but it is too late for this one. I guess you learn from your mistakes...

you can email me off board if you want. I might have some thoughts, but I want to hear where the condo is first. Please put "streeteasy" in the subject line so I can find it.

ali r.
ali {at] dgneary {dot} com

kar3f, if the broker is not willing to respond to you, although I have no idea why since they would make more money if they do not deal with a buyers broker, then why wouldnt you have the right to engage your own broker at this point?

your bid was too low. but as the other poster stated, you will not get a 3% break just because you do not have a broker. Maybe, maybe the seller has a deal with the listing broker that if there is no co-broke, then the commission is 5% instead of 6%, maybe 4%.

Uh, by the way I hate ALL brokers of ALL things because I am a do-it-yourself type, but if there is one that will refund 2/3 of 3%, that's the best deal you are going to get.

I've understood that when there's no response, your offer is considered so low that they're not counteroffering. Or maybe the seller is still considering your offer. I'm not an expert on this, but it seems if you wait a little, say 7 days from initial offer, you could submit a second, higher offer through a broker even if you didn't use one for the first offer.

Move on. If you submit a higher offer without hearing anything, you're simply negotiating against yourself and they will sit tight waiting for you to up your offer again. Many brokers will say this is a reason to use a buyer's broker---so that they can find out what's going on. But the truth of course would be that your offer was too low and they too would suggest upping it.

Couple things...
Have you called the selling agent? For all you know the email on the website isn't actually the one the broker checks all the time. Or maybe the broker was on vacation this week, or sick at home. Maybe the box you emailed belonged to a broker who left the company. Or a lot of other things. In short, why aren't you talking? You are contemplating what is likely the most expensive purchase of your life and you haven't said a work to the other party and are confused by the other party's behavior. Maybe a conversation would clarify things and move the ball forward.
Second, there is no communication whatsoever from the seller--you have not even entered negotiations. Why do you feel it is "too late" to bring in a "buyer's" broker? (I put quotation marks there, because technically they wouldn't be your broker, but that is another conversation). You can pretty much bring in a broker of your own at any time.
Three, based just on your writings here, I am guessing you aren't' all that well-versed in the ways of NYC real estate from a a legal, negotiating, or practical perspective. A good broker can be of tremendous assistance to you under these circumstances.

kar3f, I have no relationship with Keith other than what I've heard from him on this board, plus one conversation offline. From what I can tell, he's experienced, honest, modest, and forthright. I recommend him because of those perceived qualities, but more importantly because he offers the fee structure you are looking for. As UD mentions, the "no buyer's broker" approach does not accomplish the fee goals you are seeking. There are many here who have used Keith, and it's pretty amazingly uniform in the praise they have for him. It just seems you are pissing against the wind to accomplish what you are seeking to accomplish.

As far as bringing in your own broker on this apt, just do it. Tell the broker that you decided to bring in your own as it seemed they were not interested in representing you given their lack of response. Easy enough.

Agreed with KW. You seem to not be the best person to handle this. You have avoided a conversation, which says to me that you have hesitation w.r.t. confrotation. You have made an offer on Wed, giving them ample excuse/time to shop your offer at a Sun open house. You have not put a deadline for a response on your offer.

If the other side is into getting a deal done straight & upfront, you'd be fine. However, their lack of response (even a straight "no") says they're into playing games. Given what I sense so far, I think you'd be better-off having someone who can handle that type of behavior for you.

How about a bit more context before anyone here provide an informed opinion?:

Apartment listed for approximately what $? What is the price history of the apartment.

Your bid was for approximately what $, or what discount to ask?

How can anyone here conclude that the other side is playing games? Maybe this offer wasn't taken seriously. There's no counter because they think he or she is a crackpot, for any number of reasons - including trying to induce the selling broker by stating there's no buying broker, or maybe because the price is sufficiently low, or maybe a combination of the two - e.g. price is 15% below a reasonable and then he or she tries to make it up by talking about a 2-3% reduction in sellers' costs.
There's not enough information here.

Hi KyleWest, thanks for your comments.

Firstly, I am not afraid of confrontation. I called to discuss an offer with them and they said they could not present anything without having an email or something in writing. So, I sent the email and then followed up with phone calls (had to leave voicemails for the follow up calls). but got no response.

I also sent another email early this morning telling them that there is a different apartment I may make an offer on today (and will probably be able to get it), but first want to get the status here because I am very interested in this apartment. I gave them a little more info regarding my financials/networth to give them comfort that I can easily afford the apartment... I then said that I am requesting they contact me TODAY before I make an offer on a different apartment.

My email clearly said I was coming in without a broker. So, I am not sure I should even bother with a buyer's broker for this apartment. If I get no response today, I think they are working with a different buyer.
But I am tempted to leave a note with the doorman for the actual owner so they know that their broker is not following up on all potential purchasers..

Also, the asking price was over 800K. A VERY similar apartment (but with a slightly better view and in much better condition) just sold for about 6% less than they are asking for this apartment. So, I took this recent selling price and deducted another 4% for the work that I thought it needed and the slightly worse view).

Maybe my offer is too low, but they should at least reply to me saying that.

Maybe your offer is fair. And perhaps they aren't interested in 10% below their ask, or even 5% below their ask. It's possible they want to wait it out, and maybe that will or will not work out well for them, maybe it'll be a disaster or maybe the'll get lucky. But if they are willing at this stage to drop 2%, perhaps they see the theoretical bid / ask as too far - e.g. they think you'd come up 2% and there's still too big a difference.
Not sure why though you think they "should" reply to you - this is about money, not being polite. You do what you need to do at this stage.

kar3f, I sold by owner, to a private party. In my opinion, lowballs only work if the asking price is not at-market.
The reason I accepted my buyer's offer was that he presented it complete. The offer included a summary of financials, and justification for the offer price. In my case, buyer offered 1% less than ask, all cash, no financing contingency. I also received a higher offer, but I accepted the all cash.

In your case, did you make a lowball just to see if it would stick, or do you really believe the fair market price is your offer? For the former, I'd ignore you. For the latter, if you can back it up with comps and a discussion to justify your offer, then I would expect a reply. The listing broker has a fiduciary responsibility to the seller -- but offering 3% less because there is no buyer's broker is not going to get you anywhere since there is 99.9% chance the seller is paying full commission regardless of buyer representation.

There is only one price for a transaction, and that's today's market price. Offer the true market price and there will be a deal (if the seller actually wants to sell).

kar3f,
- If your offer is at a reasonable price, there is no reason that you should not hear back. Property usually goes to highest qualifying bidder. - Sellers do not like to take a 5% discount as they like someone offer letter and their broker thinks the other buyer with lower prices is very nice.
- If the seller has not come back, move on as either they will come back when they have compared other offers with your offer being the best or you will not hear back from them as your offer is too low.
- If you call the broker too much, you will divulge that you are willing to pay more. If I am the seller, I will give you a message, that they have higher offers they are considering after making you wait for a few more days.

Meanwhile, the seller knows they have you on the hook. You gave them a BS story (their possible interpretation) about interest in a different apartment but restated your interest in theirs. I'd also add that you should have given them the rationale on your lower offer when you made it. Make your offer on the other apartment ASAP & see what happens. When push comes to shove, you don't have to buy either. Good luck & let us know what happens.

In my experience it is always the people who make low offers who expect the seller to jump quickly.

Whether or not you are correct in your pricing analysis, you need to understand that the seller probably doesn't want to hear what he considers a low offer. The fact that there is no broker also makes the offer seem less reliable.

Buyers who offer low need to be patient - if you want a seller's immediate attention then make an offer that will get their attention. You can't have it both ways.

Very well stated ... on Target.

kar: sent you an off-board note with thoughts.

ali

Kar beware of borkers bearing knowledge.

kar,
if your going to do it alone you have to present your offer in writing with a clear snapshot of your financial condition at the moment. The more complete the better (w/o family secrets). I totally get why you think the broker will jump...MORE FOR ME. Turns out that sellers broker really dosen't want to deal with you directly. They're not really going to keep an extra 3%, not when you look at the break down of the 6%. You shoukld consider working with Keith. You will stay in control while having the expertise and advice of one who has been there before and you will save a bucket of money. Keep in mind that some brokers lack efficancy and organization wrt communication. You are a low ball so...no rush.

falcogold1 is right, the idea that sellers' brokers are hunting around, preferentially looking and hoping for an unrepresented buyer instead of a buyer with a broker, is just false. For a lot of reasons that have been covered a zillion times on this forum.

However you should have received a prompt response of some kind, no matter what you wrote or said on the phone. That's only being professional.

Asking-price offers are easy. Low offers are inherently tricky to handle as a buyer.

There are ways to handle low offers that can be very effective, by effective I mean that a dialogue gets going and something good happens, or has the potential to happen. But doing this takes skill and experience, and if you don't do make low offers on real estate on a regular basis, it's unlikely you're going to have enough practice.

There are things you can do about this apartment at this point, if you're still interested in this apartment. Email me if you want professional help. kharby at crrnyc.com

I hired the Burkhardt group as well because of the commission split. If you are willing to do some of your own legwork in looking for listings and comps, then it is a great deal. He's easy to get a hold of and always returns calls the same day even when I call late.

I have found that the most common reason an offer or inquiry is not responded to is that the apartment has an accepted offer or is very close to one. The seller is often waiting for a buyer to sign a contract before responding. I suspect you will hear back soon that there is an accepted offer.

Second most common reason is that they missed it - so the suggestion to follow up the email with a call is good advice. I've never encountered a situation where an offer is too low to respond to. Sometimes you'll get a response saying it's too low and won't be presented to the seller because it hasn't met a minimum threshold, but that is rare. And even in this case, you received a response. Good luck!