Why list a studio as a 1 Bedroom?

"Listing a junior 4 as a 2 bedroom" discussion is one thread away from merging with this discussion.
(5:28pm, Thursday April 12th).

Pmg. Why dont you go back to your studio, oh excuse me, alcove studio (what r u?, too good for a straight studio?), turn off the computer, fold up all the old duplicate floor plans of every apartment you dream about, and make love to your cat again. And if you call Ollie's bf 3pm, you can get a free can of soda and delivered right to your Lincoln's Tower's studio, alcove studio, that you bought for $50k in 1985.

I've got a wife and two kids. One girl one boy..... So I need a 3bdrm. Plus a nice garage that won't ding my Audi R8.

Life begins east of broadway on the UWs IMHO.

w67, why not give the family a break, live separately in a studio, see how it goes? Lincoln Tower's studios were $60k in the mid 80s, I recall. Dow Jones Industrial Average, 1200. Gold price: $300. So you see, despite the frenzy, Manhattan apartments haven't exactly outperformed relative to other asset classes. But you should continue to hold cash, though, that's probably a good idea. Interest rates will rise eventually and your cash will go further. Fingers crossed.

>Interest rates will rise eventually and your cash will go further

The streeteasy party line is that you should invest your cash in the stock market.

>Plus a nice garage that won't ding my Audi R8.

Porsche broke?

isn't it illegal to advertise these apartments as a 1 bedroom when the bedroom have no windows?

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/666269-condo-125-east-12th-street-east-village-new-york

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/675324-condo-125-east-12th-street-east-village-new-york

WINDOW REQUIREMENTS
(MDL Sec. 30. Lighting and Ventilation of Rooms).
Every living room shall have at least one window opening directly upon a street or upon a lawful yard, court or space above a setback upon the same lot as that occupied by the multiple dwelling. Every window shall be located so it sheds light properly to all portions of the room. Windows shall not open upon any offset or recess less than six feet in width. Total area of the windows in a living room shall be at least one-tenth of the floor surface area and the window shall be at least twelve square feet in area. All windows must open so that at least one-half of their required area can open except for mullioned casement windows. If fresh air is mechanically ventilated in any room, producing at least forty cubic feet of air per minute, the window area needs to be open only to the extent of twenty-five percent of such a window area but never less than five and one-half square feet.
No room in any non-fireproof or three room or less apartment shall extend in depth, from a street or yard on which it faces, more than thirty feet without a window opening on a lawful court.

Offering plan lists as 'rooms' not bedrooms so I guess that's how they skirted that.
I'd expect it's one of the many 'genius' marketing loopholes developed over the last 10 years. Goes well with the combo living room, kitchen, dining room commonly referred as the 'great room.'

Still the spread in price between these units and other units with bedroom windows seems to acknowledge the value of.

Sorry 'condo declaration' not 'offering plan' but same difference.

from the NYS Multiple Dwelling Law

LIVING ROOM REQUIREMENTS
(MDL sec.4 Definitions) Every room used for sleeping purposes shall be deemed a living room.
A living room can not be a public hall, public vestibule, public room or other public part of a dwelling.
Dining Bays and dinettes fifty-five square feet or less in floor area, foyers, water-closet compartments, bathrooms, cooking spaces less than fifty-nine square feet in area, and halls, corridors and passageways entirely within an apartment or suite of rooms shall not be deemed living rooms.
MINIMUM SIZE REQUIREMENTS
(MDL Sec. 31 Size of Rooms) Each apartment needs to contain at least one living room which is at minimum 132 square feet in floor area and 80 square feet in floor space.
Floor space is the clear area of the floor contained within the partitions or walls enclosing any room, space, foyer, hall or passageways of any dwellings. For example, a closet in a room would be included in floor area but not in the floor space.
Every room shall be at least eight feet high, from finished floor to finished underside of the ceiling.
Every living room shall be at least eight feet in its least horizontal dimension, unless that any number of living rooms up to one-half of the total number in any apartment containing three or more living rooms may have at minimum horizontal dimension of seven feet.

ALCOVES: SEC 32

NEW YORK STATE MULTIPLE DWELLING LAW
Chapter 713 of the Laws of 1929, as amended
ARTICLE 3 MULTIPLE DWELLINGS--GENERAL PROVISIONS

Sec. 32. Alcoves.
1. Every alcove, except a lawful cooking space, opening from
any room in any multiple dwelling erected after April
eighteenth, nineteen hundred twenty-nine, shall be
separately lighted and ventilated as provided for other
rooms in section thirty. It shall have a floor area of at
least seventy square feet, a least horizontal dimension of
at least seven feet and an opening at least sixty square
feet in area into the room which it adjoins.

2. Except for cubicles permitted in lodging houses, no part of
any room in any multiple dwelling erected after April
eighteenth, nineteen hundred twenty-nine, shall be enclosed
or subdivided at any time, wholly or in part, by a curtain,
portiere, fixed or movable partition or other contrivance or
device, unless each such enclosure or subdivision shall
contain a separate window as required for a room by section
thirty and a floor space of at least seventy square feet.

You can't stop sleazy brokers from listing their studio listings to 1 bedrooms (or lying) but you can have them corrected (at least on streeteasy.com). Right below the description of the listing is an orange button labeled "problem?". If you click on it and write "this is a studio not a 1 bedroom" streeteasy will correct it. I've done it dozens or hundreds of times and it always gets corrected in a day or two. While brokerage firms clearly don't have an issue lying, fortunately, streeteasy encourages honest listings.

And Ali, I realize you say in your description it is a studio/junior 4, but if you input it as a 1 bedroom so it shows up in1 bedroom searches, you are still lying. Plain and simple.

This is a classic example of why people (rightfully) think brokers are sleazy.

I don't understand how there is any grey area. NYC clearly defines what a bedroom is - which If I recall correctly means it must be of a certain size, have a door that closes and have a window (I could be wrong about the definition, but I think that is it). The apartment could be 2500 square feet but if the area you propose does not meet the requirements it is not a bedroom. An alcove studio, a junior 3 or whatever BS real estate lies you want to put in front of it doesn't change it from a 1 bedroom. A junior 4 or a convertible 2 is not a 2 bedroom. Plain and simple - calling a "junior 4" a 2 bedroom is a lie. I don't care if the place is 300 or 3000 square feet.

"w67, why not give the family a break, live separately in a studio, see how it goes? Lincoln Tower's studios were $60k in the mid 80s, I recall. Dow Jones Industrial Average, 1200. Gold price: $300. So you see, despite the frenzy, Manhattan apartments haven't exactly outperformed relative to other asset classes. But you should continue to hold cash, though, that's probably a good idea. Interest rates will rise eventually and your cash will go further. Fingers crossed."

PMG, where the fk do I start? What part of your imbecile naive kindergarten logic should I start with first?

Did you in 1985, take $12K and lever it 5 times to buy gold and an stock index fund? And did the gold and stock index fund pay you a 14.3% compounded annual return over the same 1985-2007 period ? That's better than 99% of all fund managers.

You do know gold represents 2% of all investment and RE represents => (you fill in the blank moron);
You do know Stocks (as much as it has gone up) represents a tiny percentage of an individual's net worth.

NOW really try to stay with me.... the gyrations of the stock and gold markets HAS zero bearing for most AMERICANS. AND I don't care if the bubble bursts in those asset classes bc MY TAX DOLLARS are not BACKSTOPPING IT.

My CASH position represents 1/10 of my lifetime earnings.... stay with me again.... meaning 9/10 of my net worth comes from "EARNINGS" not sitting on my AZZ hoping for another bubble. And I have a ton of exposure from the stock market bc my wife and I have been filling up our 401K plans since we were 18 yos and our children education trust funds have $400K each in them. I DON'T count that as my "CASH".

And when leveraged/bubble assets like your studio trade once again for $100K, and ALL is right with the world, MY CASH will have gained 300% relative to your studio which traded for $399K at its peak. Now if you follow along and note I NEED A 3bdrm and w67 walked away from a $2.5MM condo on w67thstreet in 2006/2007 and which I KNOW will trade at $1MM bf it is said and done, MY CASH will have INCREASED IN VALUE relative to my CONSUMPTION of RE.

YOU ARE SITTING AND HAVING SEX WITH YOUR CAT IN A DELEVERAGING BUBBLE ASSET. Do you want a coupon for Ollie's?

Oh, and you don't want to be hanging out with the grays.... you may go gray also and then you'd be a "real" nobody living in a jumbo studio in Lincoln Towers bought for $60K in 1985, posting on an anonymous internet forum. How sad.

downtown, "lying" and "sleazy" are pretty strong words.

In the two examples in this thread, nobody is lying.

The 15th Street listing that started this thread is quite clearly listed by Corcoran in my computer system as a "Junior 1-BR." Same for the Third Avenue listing I sold -- in my system, it was a "Junior 1-BR."

Since davet was nice enough to provide us with the housing code, you can see that those are both perfectly legitimate descriptions of these apartments, which have large, windowed alcoves.

The problem arises because you're looking at Streeteasy, which is an imperfect filter of my/Corcoran's computer system, and Streeteasy doesn't know what a "Junior 1-BR" is.

ali r.
DG Neary Realty

Here's a broker doozy:
I looked at a coop in Manhattan. It was listed as a one bedroom. I checked the sq footage and it seemed that it would be really small so I suspected a converted studio. I just looked at it because I wanted to see the view from the roof deck (very nice, but I don't live on the roof deck).

It turned out to be one of those french-door jobs and it was a tiny "bedroom" area. Just a bed and small night/end table. No closet. there was a window and on the other side of the french-doors another window that almost met the french-doors.

When I told the broker that the bedroom is too tiny because it's a converted apt. and it's really too small for a bedroom(my condo had a table and 4 chairs in the middle of that area, along one wall: a bookcase, an amoire, a cabinet, then at the corner a window and radiator and another bookcase/cabinet along the street side wall. (there was also a small cabinet on the other end of the area. In other words: a good size area.)

The broker tells me that I can move the french-doors out into the living room area, thereby enlarging the "bedroom".
Except that I know that's not possible because the french doors would then be in the middle of the "living room"area's widow.
I told her that even if the coop allowed that, which is unlikely; it would be against building code.

She whipped out her phone to make a suddenly important call.

I walked out.

Now what do you guys think of a studio w home office, and the home office has a door, large enough for a king sized bed and a closet. If it were said in the title and description that it is a studio w home office, and then in the search its bedroom number is 1, would that be considered on the right side of advertising?

When did real estate become a commodity bought based on which box was checked?

We don't think much of it, angeloz.

>The problem arises because you're looking at Streeteasy, which is an imperfect
>filter of my/Corcoran's computer system, and Streeteasy doesn't know what a
>"Junior 1-BR" is.

You're saying that Streeteasy mistakenly represents some large studios with windowed alcoves as 1BRs, right?

Would you like to be the honest person who notifies Streeteasy so that they can correct this structural error in their system?

Boo hoo. I need to rely on what someone tells me without using my own brain and skills. Boo hoo, people ought to be punished for acting in their best interests.

Um, I don't think anyone should be punished. That's your fantasy.

Boo hoo, I'm the boss and someone lied to me. I rely on everyone for the truth. I need "yes men".

What, you think it's OK for a studio to be listed as a Classic 6?

Then what's your point?

Yes, just imagine, a family buys a studio, thinking it's a classic 6 because of the way it is listed on streeteasy. The broker never tells them the truth. Then when they move in, all of their furniture can't fit and they have to put some in storage. So in addition to shelling out classic 6 dollars on merely a studio, now to add insult to injury they also have to spend a couple thousand per year for furniture storage. This horror scenario is entirely ignoring the problem with closet space.

Oh no, I thought this was a 2 bath apartment. Oops, I'll clean up that mess, sorry.

Ho, hum.

sophia: please look into the se listing situation!