Sale at 87 East 2nd Street

Hmm, don't see Belmarc, but I do see CH and then Ardor at $849k. Have you searched the Times and Craigslist to see if this is a FSBO? They're likely brokers fishing for buy-side clients, and one of them has factored his commission into the price.

Looking at the CH floorplan w/ measurements, I'm getting less than 700sf. It's pretty much a box, so with 11'9" for the LR, 7' for the kitchen, 13' for the BR and a generous 3' for the closet, times 19'7" for the depth of the whole thing, you're definitely at under 700 usable sq ft. Of course you can legitimately add a little for halfway through neighbors walls, depth of exterior wall, etc., but surprise, surprise, another listing with inflated square footage.

A bigger 2BR (its maintenance was 50% higher, can't tell how close it was to the claimed 950sf) sold last year for $805k from an $829k ask. Can't tell it's condition - does no pix on the Elliman site = lousy? The recent comp w/ similar maintenance sold at $795k asking (someone caught up in a frenzy, perhaps?). The bathroom looks old. Great location, though, both in terms of the neighborhood and F/V train proximity.

That said, Ardor’s been listing it for over 100 days, and as a likely FSBO, it was possibly around for a while before the brokers picked up on it. I think the $795k sellers got lucky. There’s no way I see it going for over $800, and in my opinion, if the seller doesn’t make a deal in the high $700s soon, it’s going to drift lower, possibly quite a bit.

newbie08, that was me posting above. I had switched to my insider account to better check comps. I didn't use the boards for many months when I joined StreetEasy, then created the tenemental account to post with, thinking I had more of my real name attached to my insider account. Whew. I really need to move my searches and saved sales over.

thanks Tenemental - i was thinking that tonyB was sounding very similar to you!

tenemental - this is the listing that was originally there - if you look its the same place
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/155129-coop-east-village-gramercy-park-manhattan - but now its "unavailable" and the Citi one just came on 6 days ago!

Interesting. When you see a generic listing title like "East Village in Gramercy Park" instead of an actual address it’s usually a FSBO. The broker doesn't want you going straight to the seller. You've probably noticed urbandigs and others talking about his inventory numbers being StreetEasy-based, but with duplicates and no-address listings removed for this reason.

I’d say it definitely was a FSBO, but the seller couldn’t move it so he hired the broker from CH and bumped up the price even more to cover his commission. Good luck with that! Unless they find a sucker fast they’re dooming themselves to a lower price than if they had priced it right the first time.

According to the brokerage database it is a citi habitats exclusive as of a week ago. Ardor is a waste of time and generally lists either open listings or other broker's listings in attempt to fish for buyers.

yes - but this listing was associated with belmarc

NYG - I agree. Ardor and Belmarc were fishing when it was a FSBO. Now Citi Habitats has the exclusive and it's even more overpriced to cover the broker's commission.

I imagine that CH will be telling Ardor to pull their listing, if they haven't told them already.

I was just wondering about this listing and am glad I found this discussion. It definitely was listed with Ardor and Bellmarc at $849K (and seemed high) and just recently I found it on CH at $875K. I saw it through streeteasy for Ardor, then found it on NYT (only when I did a specific search for it) through Bellmarc. You can now see the previous Ardor listing as "no longer available" on streeteasy (CH must have called them out on it).

I totally agree with tenemental that the price increase is for the broker (and the seller is being greedy!) and the sellers are at dire risk of getting much less than they wanted, considering it was on the market for several months w/o any movement. Has anyone checked it out?

Wow, I just looked at the square footage...definitely under 700 sq feet, even including all the walls!

khd, did you see the brief "east 2nd" thread? alismum wrote "the apartment in this building that went fpr 795,000 was unrenovated."

That was 5C, and the unit currently listed is 4C. But look at 4A, a 2br that went for $805k from an $829k asking. The maintenance was 35% higher, so it was clearly larger (it claimed 950 sq ft). Now, I don't know what the difference was in terms of views (though I would think the shares/maintenance spread would be less if 5C fronts on the street and 4A faces an airshaft), but could you imagine buying an unrenovated apartment, only to find out that someone in the building bought a significantly larger space for only $10k more just 2 months prior? Holy buyer’s remorse.

It makes me wonder about the "sucker comp," which is what I think 5C is to 4C. Say you have a building with a steady ppsf, increasing appropriate to the run-up of the past 5 years, then someone buys a unit at a ridiculous ask, above recent comps. The seller tested the market and got lucky, maybe found a buyer caught up in a frenzy. How many people call bullshit on that comp and instead look at the larger body of previous sales when making an offer? Will the sucker comp survive, or will subsequent sales return to the building's previous ppsf (relative, of course, to unit by unit specifics)?

Hi tenemental...I checked this place out so I can confirm some of the stuff discussed above. I also wrote my report in the OH anecdotes thread...Here's the poop: it was FSOB before CH took it over. The seller has been in it for 26 years. The place was nicely laid out, nice space, decent light. Views were not so great and noise from 1st ave was a problem (probably the only deal breaker for me). There will be an assessment for 2 years starting any day now, that is considerable, will make the CC above $700 (overall, still low monthly, I guess). The bath could use some updating. I would probably put in city quiet windows in the BR, but the noise wasn't bad. I imagine the noise and views were better in 5C. I don't know how renovated 4C was, the kitchen wasn't old but I think it could be nicer.

I couldn't tell where 4A would have been (I wish I had paid more attention!), but it probably was facing the street, either 1at ave or 2nd street. There are only 20 units in the building.

I looked at a beautifully renovated jr 2 in Ageloff Towers last summer that sold for 800K, it was much nicer than this place, with nicer views in a nice building. Based on this alone, I don't think this place is worth 875, not even 800. Maybe 775-790 tops?

Thanks for your insight.

Thanks for the report, khd. Do you really think $775-790? With 4A sounding like it probably has better views, and going for $847/sf if the 950 sf claim is accurate ($947/sf if they also lied and added 100 sf), 4C, to me, seems like it should go for between $600-650. Hence, the sucker comp of 5C.

Well I don't know if 4A had better views (certainly 5C must), but if 4A really were bigger, then yes, 4C is overpriced by a lot. Based on what I have been looking at over the last year, it is relatively spacious, has high ceilings, for me it is also well located. BUT, noise is a big issue, for me at least. The sq footage of 800 probably includes storage (there was a lot) and halls as mentioned above. When looking at the comps, I would guess 775K. But if there was a "sucker" sale last year, who knows what it is actually worth.
I was under the impression that the seller isn't willing to go too far under the ask, especially since they tried selling on their own for several months at $849K. However, the CH broker said it was "negotiable".
Then again, looking at what is happening on Wall Street, Bear Stearns, etc, maybe it will be a buyers' market very soon!
BTW, I recently ditched my useless broker and hired Noah R. Maybe he can tell me what he thinks of this place...

khd, I'm actually just doing the math, using 4A as the comp instead of 5C. All else being equal (views, noise, etc.), using the range of possible ppsf in 4A's selling price of $805k, the smaller 4C should fetch between $600-650 (though I would guess $650, as 4A's 950 sf was probably also inflated by 100). Given the large maintenance difference and 2nd bedroom, I don't think there's a doubt that 4A is bigger. Of course, maybe 4A's buyer got a great deal, but it's hard to believe that the unrenovated 5C was worth over $1100/sf.

I'm not arguing with you, I'm just offering some hard numbers in case your heart is getting involved!

In terms of seller psychology, after his unsuccessful FSBO attempt, he probably convinced himself that what he needed was a broker to get the high price he wanted. The broker probably agreed with his price to get him signed to an exclusive, knowing he'd have to drop the price eventually. That's a sleazy move Noah has mentioned a few times.

Best of luck with Noah. I only know of a few brokers in NYC that I would trust. Actually, I only know of one, and you just hired him.

Thanks tenemental for the breakdown...(btw, I wasn't arguing, just thinking aloud :) ).
Yeah, it is tough not to get the heart involved...I need to sleep on it before thinking too much about this one.
The seller's psychology seems rather whack. The guy bought 26 years ago, for what must have been a steal (maybe a lot less than 100K?). I suspect even if he sold for a lot less, he would be making bank.
Thanks for the luck and advice!