Graceline Court

Also correct me if wrong but NOT all units in Kahalari have W/D hookups in the units.. there is a laundry room on each floor. I only saw ONE room but there seemed to be 4 units (2 washers and 2 dryers).
Graceline has 3 units per floor with 4 on a couple. Kahalari has many many more units on each floor.

212CondoDude - Are you the owner or the realtor at Graceline? How do you know about closings that are not yet on ACRIS.

I sokke with Leo the Halstead broker on sunday... I was looking to see if they had anything not listed that would go for less on lower floor etc.

I was in contract on another place in midtown and had such a bad experience.. I managed to get out of my closing though since there were so many problems and I was such a pain in the A$$. Since I can't afford anything else in midtown for my pricepoint I have been looking at Graceline, Kahalari and Delaney and others in Harlem.

I think graceline is Ok but I see how some have concerns.. the Delaney has no amenities.. nor does Fitzgerald. both are smaller bldgs like graceline.

The brokerage office is no longer open on weekends anymore. That is quite an interesting development.

I am interested in Graceline Court but am concerned about the issue of the doorman. From my understanding, the owners will be determining doorman hours and shifts. Has there been any discussion about this amongst the owners? If so, what seems to be the consensus?

By the way, I was recently at Graceline Court during the weekend, and the sales office was open.

Looks like sales have ground to a total halt. You may be able to talk turkey (pardon the Thanksgiving pun) in a few months if things don't pick up.

The building is still barely half sold (there are way more apartments unsold than the five currently listed - they took a bunch of them off the market when they switched realtors in June). So without those tenants paying their common charges I doubt a full time doorman (or any doorman) is in the cards anytime soon.

I walked past it last night. I saw about five windows with lights on. It was a mistake in development from the get go. They should turn the units into middle income rentals. If they do, I would see lights in every window.

I think the lights on at night is misleading, I've been informed that 18/32 units have closed and 2-3 are expected to close by the end of the year. I'm actually not worried too much about the occupancy. It looks like most of the 1 and 2 bedroom units have sold, and now most of the units available are the 3 bedroom units. This makes sense given the economy and where people with families tend to live - outside of the City.

I looked at other places in the neighborhood (Soha 118 and the Kalahari), and I just didn't like their floorplans and construction as much.

Does anyone living/owning in Graceline Court know anything about the doorman discussions? While I appreciate everyone's input, it is difficult to base a major financial and lifestyle decision on speculation alone.

Also, does anyone living in Graceline Court or in the area around it know how loud the call to prayer is from the mosque next door? I called the mosque and a very nice woman assured me that they are considerate of their neighbors when setting the volume on the loudspeakers. But, I'm not sure how to interpret this.

SFNYC -- dont worry about the call to prayer -- you'll need it if you move into this place
Kalahari is actually well built compared to the other 2. Their floor plans are not that great. However, Graceline has rooms just as tiny as Kalahari. At least they dont have pillars in the middle of your living room like Soha
Windows on 123 is better in terms of floor plan and construction than any of these choices, but has no sales so presents a different challenge
2280 FDB has higher end finishes but unrealistic pricing.
Douglass may be better pricing but I have not seen the place inside

No comparison between Graceline and the Kalahari. Kalahari wins hands down.

Doorman is supposed to change hours in January. You should keep in touch with the broker as he should know status.

Owners are paying common charges.

Check ACRIS and/or StreetEasy Insider to see how many units are sold.

I've been living here a while now and have only ever heard the call to prayer on fridays around noon. It's NOT that loud and it doesn't last a long time.

Bronxboy... you are into the "# of lights on at night = success of bldg" logic. So during peak times like dinner when all lights are on the bldg is super successful and during the middle of the night say 3am when no lights are on the bldg is in trouble? You must be a scientist.

SFNYC - Graceline is a small bldg. Kahalari is a huge complex. Both are good places to live.. it just depends on what you prefer.

GracelineUnitOwner - do you know anything about 6/32 apartments in legal dispute? See thread on 'the top 20 buildings where buyers are backing out'.
http://streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/16851-the-top-20-buildings-where-buyers-are-backing-out

Based on the following article:
http://therealdeal.com/newyork/articles/where-are-buyers-backing-out

Graceline is listed as number 5.

I wish you luck with your condo, Graceline owner. I've looked at that and others in Harlem and, for my tastes and needs, seemed very poorly conceived in many ways. Now if you paid around %500 per sq foot or less than that's great. Also, sadly it was marketed by Corcoran which hurt its chances. They overpriced the building and made it look probably worse than it really is based on what the asking prices were.

Looks like big-time discounting has begun at Graceline.
Unit 12C just closed at $765k, a discount of $310k (29%) from the last Halstead listing and $430k (36%) from the original Corcoran listing.

I bet this was quietly forclosed, and now the creditor(s) are just trying to unload this inventory fast. $629 p sf for brand new doorman in Harlem is about right...if not on the high side.

I just checked ACRIS - this unit was purchased from the Sponsor.

Jason, Graceline has a part-time doorman and only one elevator.

I thought I read somewhere that Graceline and 5th on the Park have the most number of buyers pulling out of contract or something... in manhattan. Anyway, even if that's not true, I'd consider other condos or coops in the area that are bigger. Kalahari and the Renaissance have big outdoor space that Graceline doesn't - bec it's a smaller bldg. Having a big private outdoor space is nice. Kalahari has more amenities, too.

I also don't like that it's next to a Mosque. Not right next door but 2 bldgs down? Anyway, it's just a small concern. Apt units look gorgeous in the pictures. I'm sure it's great, but I tend to be more careful about brand new bldgs w/ no history. In the beginning, there are always issues to work out with the developer. Every bldg has this issue. Even Kalahari. They had to win a lawsuit against the developer to address the issue. I think it was maybe easier bec Kalahari is bigger. Also, previous owners did all the work. Renaissance also had to address issues against the developer, but that's done and over with.

It's nice to go into an established bldg, imo, but if Graceline is offering firesale price, I'd look into it. It may be worth it if it's cheap enough.

Graceline is not 2 buildings down, it is actually cantilevered over the mosque. If you've seen apts on the 8th floor, there is an ugly beam which cuts diagonally through the center of your living space.

Graceline would not be my first choice in the area.

And I believe that many quiet forclosures still technically list the sponsor as the seller, as the bank/lenders simply take over the LLC or what not.

Does anyone realize that the GRACELINE is on the edge of the project wall and the back of the Kalahari is facing the project wall. For those that do not know Harlem the PROJECT WALL runs from 1st ave. on 115th Street to 115 and LENNOX Ave. Not a very nice area.

Yes, I realize it. And that does not make either building unlivable in any way. What it does, is make the buyer realize that despite amenities, neither the Kalahari nor Graceline are million dollar buildings and never will be. They are middle class residences and should be priced around $400 psf.

We are moving from UWS to Graceline Court and excited about it. The apartments certainly have the best layout in compares other new developments we checked out in Harlem. We looked every block in 10026 and 10027.
I hope to learn more about the building instead of people speculate without facts.
As far as I know, there are 8 apartments left for sale. All the units are sold at market price.
We like the fact it's small building. 2-3 apartments each floor.

one elevator...never. Never live on a high floor when the bldg has ONE elevator.

Part time concierge also at a very busy corner.

Don't believe this story that was published in the Real Deal recently:

http://therealdeal.com/newyork/articles/bad-timing-hurts-harlem-condos

Here is the quote:

"And in some cases, Harlem developers have actually cut back on concessions as sales have improved.

The 32-unit Graceline Court, at 116th Street and Lenox Avenue, is a good example. The building is no longer offering 5 percent off the closing price because it has had six new deals signed since late fall.

After returning six deposits last summer, the developer lowered prices in the building twice. Units came on the market in 2007 at nearly $800 a square foot, but now are priced between $550 and $725, according to Leo Munoz, an agent at Halstead Property selling the project."

I have clients and know other lawyers that are attempting to recover deposits from Graceline Court. None have been refunded in spite of legitimate legal grounds.

jason,

This bldg only has one elevator? Does this bldg have a freight/svc elevator? I walked by his bldg I was not impressed.

Is this true? Only 1 elevator for all of those floors, that does not sound correct.

Yes, only one elevator for 16 floors.

The two high-rises I have lived in had frequent elevator breakdowns. Seems troubling if you live on say the 7th floor.

I can't believe this is correct, I will have to go to the building and see. I can't imagine an that they have one elevator for 16 stories. This isn't the 1950s.

"This isn't the 1950s."

lol ms123, it's the 1st time in years I hear a comparison with the 50s being used in a negative way. the building looks really cheap, badly designed, wouldn't advice my worst enemy to buy there (i'm not aware of having any, but even if i had).

one elevator.

16 floors yes. 3 units max per floor... and the top two floors are PH units that are duplex units.

I have lived here for over a year and never have had a problem with the elevator. Elevators are machines and can be programmed for their installations... the elevator in the bldg is very fast.
If you have such strong feelings about 1 elevator then by all means don't live here.

Maraman, jason10006, and your other aliases.... please consolidate your accounts and stop trolling under multiple names. You sound like a whiny baby and I get that you don't like one elevator... you've mentioned it more than several times now. Go ahead and keep posting the same thing over and over again but maybe keep it under one name. It seriously looks like you have nothing else to do besides talk to yourself on an internet website.

If you're wondering about the current state of the building...take a look at the city records for sales... there are more than enough people who don't feel the same way as you and have purchased and MOVED into the building. I can say this because I LIVE HERE... I see human beings and have met them. They're not rogue sales done as part of a large consipracy to make the building look more sold than it is.

Your comments are made even more ignorant by the fact you don't live here but speak as if you know everything going on in the building on a day to day basis.... I've seen everything from "quiet foreclosure" on here to people judging the success of the building by # of lights left on at night. I actually enjoyed that one because it was so dumb I couldn't help but feel sorry for the person who posted it.

I'm not saying you should be quiet or stop posting... it's a free world and it's an open forum, but consolidate your trolling to one user name.

As for the rest of the people here who like to bash the building... it's your money and your time. Don't buy here if you don't want to. Keep bashing the building as much as you want on here... I don't know what you think it'll accomplish but if it gives you a reason to wake up everyday then I don't want to stand in the way of your pathetic reason to live.

Graceline Unit Owner.

"I don't know what you think it'll accomplish but if it gives you a reason to wake up everyday then I don't want to stand in the way of your pathetic reason to live."

wow, by posting in a RE blog opinions about a residential development we accomplish... using the blog for all the right reasons?

pathetic reason to live? wow, i prefer the homebuyers that made a lousy investment saying "i like it cause of sentimental reasons" to your attitude. never thought that the sentimental card after playing the "what a savvy investor i am" will be better than something, but hey, you accomplished that! congrats!!!

You just proved my point once again.
Although your last paragraph didn't make sense.

Posting opinons is one thing... posting false facts or beating a dead horse is another.

Enjoy your forum... it seems to mean a lot to you.

Oh sorry, I guess I understand your last paragraph even with the poor grammar.

I didn't make a lousy investment... I financed less than 30% of my purchase, paid cash for the rest, got a good discount off asking price and am happy living here. I plan on holding it and renting it long term as the area develops. The tax abatement just sweetens the deal.

Keep posting... it just makes me look smarter than you.

"people judging the success of the building by # of lights left on at night."

soros judged the degree of money printed in UK by the lights left on at night, it's not such a stupid measure of success and activity in a building.

i don't see why do you have to take so personally the fact that other people you don't know think you made a lousy investment and talk openly about not making the same mistake. you cannot lift your property's value by trying to silence people that advice against what you opted for.

come on! did you for a second thought that the idea of suspending part of the building on top of that badly maintained mosque was a graceful design? i've seen parts of that suspended part (that should have been part of the floor) moving freely with the wind... okok, you might think "that doesn't mean the building is badly constructed"... sorry, i disagree with you! if the basic parts are not holding together less than a year after being build, is NOT a good sign! low maintenance now, but assessments later on are a certainty.

And furthermore if you do walk by the building at night there still are not many lights on. Its a fact GracelineOwner I am sorry it offends you so much. I am a speculator of the harlem real estate market, who lives in the area. I thought it was interesting how this development says to be doing so well but I dont see lights on. I am curious what kind of buyers bought all these units. I dont think one person here ever said rouge sales or conspiracy besides you. I also find that interesting.

Graceline Owner is entitled to his opinion and investment. Good luck to him and the building. I, too, am looking in the area and passed immediately on Graceline Court. I did not like the layouts of the apartments. I would never buy into a new high rise condo without a full time concierge or doorman. It took me forever to get to the sales office because there was only one elevator. Also, the activity in front of the building did not promise a good investment; it's a loud, sometimes dirty corner. Still, to each their own and again, good luck Graceline Owner.

"sometimes dirty corner"

maybe i have too high standards, but both 116th and 125th seem to be "forever dirty" streets. somebody (retail owners for example) should call the sanitation department about it, there are not enough trash cans and when you find one, they are overflowing with uncollected trash from who know what era. the condition of the sidewalks is also depressing.

so i'd avoid anything right on (or too close to) 116th and 125th for residential purposes. why accepting all that dirt and noise when it's perfectly quiet and more clean (although not perfect) in 117th or 118th?

I saw this place, I would not live there. I would expect further concessions inorder to unload these places. Entrace is not noticeable from the street, 116th is busy and dirty street. This will not change within my lifetime. Tax abatement or not no-way I would reside there. Units was nice but area is not. Those obstructions in the living area are just poor architectual design. Don't care what the owner says, 1 elevator is unacceptable. Wait until that thing breaks and you are carrying groceries up 7 floors.

Those obstructions in the living area are an architectural necessity, needed to cantilever the building over the mosque. Without it, the building would not have been so high.
You are right about the elevator. I know someone in the B building in the Kalahari and one elevator was out a couple of days and it was a bit of an inconvenience. If the Graceline elevator goes out and you are on an upper floor, you better hope you are in good shape.

"Maraman, jason10006, and your other aliases.... please consolidate your accounts and stop trolling under multiple names. "

Uhhh, I have ONE name dummy. Maraman, i have never seen your posts before. And its not "trolling" to say that I would find one elevator troubling and that I, as I said "in my experience" have seen elevators break down often - and not to mention get hogged by people moving in or out of the building.

If you can read my mind and tell me that those were not in fact my expereinces, which I experienced, then fine. Other wise shut the hell up.

And unless you can show me a second elevator in the building, i will continue to point out that it has only one elevator.

And finally, I live in harlem, and have since 2007, and have as many bullish on Harlem comments as negative onces. (See the 5th on the Park thread, for example.) The fact that I have a low opinion on THIS particular building hardly makes me a "troll." It makes me someone who disagrees with you.

You are fairly delusional if you think one person made up multiple aliases just to attack your building, rather than the more likely scenario of multiple people having the same or similar opinions as me.

Does any of you actually know this building only has 2 or 3 apartments on each floor. You might only stay one side of the street and people don't leave lights on in both front and back of the apartment at same time. There are also a few apartments with 2 floors too!

I don't know what the points you guys trying to address. Doesn't sound like you even have enough money to buy an apartment. If you are serious about buying a home. You wouldn't have time to babble about one building. If you are not interested, then move on to find the one you like.