building at 230 West End Avenue

Don't live in the building but know people who used to. Maint is high, particularly for a building with this many units, probably due to the elevator operators. If the building were to convert to regular elevators, the maint would be less. I'm sure there are plenty of "old timers" in the building who don't want that to happen -- they like it just the way it is, but the payroll costs on a staff heavy building are going to see that maint climb and climb. Payroll is just about the only thing a building has control over. The Board restrictions seem pretty normal. Nice area.

We bought into this building a couple years ago and can't say enough good things about it. It's very clean. The super is great. The people are friendly. The area is awesome, for reasons that are well known. The nyc511 commenter above is basically right about the high maintenance -- it comes down to labor and heating oil, which has been wicked expensive. I'm told that conversion to automatic elevators (or natural gas boilers) is hugely expensive but I haven't seen the numbers. The doormen/elevator operators are a great bunch of guys; nonetheless, if labor costs do end up rising faster than inflation, you will probably see more pressure for converting the elevators. The 1 BRs in the building seems like incredible deals, presumably because there's much more demand for 2BRs in a great school zone like this. P.S., I'm not sure what the first poster's third question means regarding "proximity to projects" ... one might think the giant Lincoln Towers buildings are public housing, but they most definitely aren't.

Ectomorph.
Key is the pay-ck period on conversion. If it's more than 5-7 years, are you saving money?

The group of mid rises in that area all seem to have really high maintenance even without operators. Is it just small buildings in general? 255 is really high too.

I have seen a few available units in this building.
Very charming building, with very small units for the price. Maintenance, as mentioned, is particularly high (too high for the worth, IMO). The elevator operator and the doorman are the same person at any given time, so I'm not sure why that adds ADDITIONAL to the maintenance charges (unless a guy who operates the elevator AND opens the door demands more money than just the doorman). Either way, it means anyone without a key needs to wait for the operator to return from an elevator trip, or anyone WITH a key to wait while he opens the door, helps with belongings, etc., to go upstairs.
Cute, but small building with small units with small lobby with small elevator... I passed.

I thought there were seperate doormen/elevator operators with the exception, perhaps, of late night. With 17 floors and 115 apartments (and probably 250+ residents) it must be a nightmare trying to get out of the building on a weekday morning and trying to get back up to your apt in the evening if the doorman and elevator operator are one in the same! When would the doorman have the time to do any "doormaning"?! I have family that live in an East Side bldg with a similiar set up, but it was a small "boutique" bldg with only 30 units, but even with that it was problamatic. they eventually converted the elevators.

Perhaps Ectomorph could weigh in with their experience.

nyc511,
Perhaps rush hours they have 2?? I have been there at all times during the day (except 8-9am and around 5pm) and there's a total of ONE guy in the elevator/lobby.

Right, during morning and evening rush hours, both elevators are running, so there are two guys working as doorman/elevator man, and that's what makes for higher labor costs. This is also why, to nyc511's point, it is *not* a nightmare going to/from work. The elevators are very prompt during these periods, and also on the weekends and at night when there isn't much traffic. The one time elevator service can be slower is the middle of the day during the week, like if the doorman has to deal with a delivery or something. (I mean, they'll use their judgment and tell a delivery guy to wait if someone has buzzed and it doesn't seem like they're almost done, but still.) The bottom line is that it's prompt, except in the middle of the day it can be a bit slower (but only rarely to an annoying degree). Basically it's a non-issue unless you plan to be sprinting in and out of the building a lot in the middle of the day.

ectomorph, thanks for the clarification. Given this info, anybody have ideas as to why the high maint.? Every bldg has its own set of circumstances: bldg size, # of units, underlying mortgage, etc., but this is an established coop with 100+ apts to spread out some of the standard costs (doorman, super, etc.), and with what now seems a typical staffing alotment, the maint is running about $2.50 sq ft. Oil is expensive, but this bldg isn't paying anymore for it than any other bldg in Manhattan. Various trade publications show about $1.60 being the avg. That's been my experience as well. Thoughts? I ask because I like the bldg and there appears to be good prices, but the maint spread would give me a lot of buying power elsewhere.

http://www.supplementstogo.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/EME.gif

That $1.60 may be out of date. SE shows about 60 1/1 co-ops in 10023, with a median maintenance just above $1300.

What's odd is that the F line seems to have as many shares as the better E line.

This co-op has an unusual share-allocation pattern.

On each regular floor (2-16) there're seven apartments in three nominal sizes: one studio, five one-bedrooms, and one two-bedroom.

Shares are allocated to the three sizes in the ratio 2:3:4. I.e., one part for the kitchen and bath that every apartment has, plus another part for each additional room.

Each size's share increment per floor is in the same 2:3:4 ratio, so each 2nd-floor apartment has 83.1% of the corresponding 16th-floor apartment's shares.

That pattern, though interesting and nicely formulaic, introduces some distortions.

E.g., on the 10th floor, the one-bedroom maintenance is $1333 while the two-bedroom maintenance is only $1777.

Also, some one-bedroom lines have only a pullman kitchen in a closet while others have a real kitchen. Some one-bedrooms face the street while others face a courtyard. That leaves the courtyard-facing closet-kitchen F line, for example, paying the same maintenance as the E line next door, which has a real kitchen and faces south onto 70th St.

No share-allocation method is perfect, but this one looks to have produced a lot of anomalies for the sake of a mathematical exercise.

Here's the pretty share-allocation matrix, omitting the first and PH floors:

____A___B___C___D____E___F___G_
..2 128 192 192 256 192 192 192
..3 130 195 195 260 195 195 195
..4 132 198 198 264 198 198 198
..5 134 201 201 268 201 201 201
..6 136 204 204 272 204 204 204
..7 138 207 207 276 207 207 207
..8 140 210 210 280 210 210 210
..9 142 213 213 284 213 213 213
10 144 216 216 288 216 216 216
11 146 219 219 292 219 219 219
12 148 222 222 296 222 222 222
14 150 225 225 300 225 225 225
15 152 228 228 304 228 228 228
16 154 231 231 308 231 231 231

Why is this building so cheap???? The last two sales recorded, within a month of today I believe, were for relatively low selling prices. Unheard of as a matter of fact. Adding to my confusion is the fact that they were on the market for so long. Makes me wonder if the buildings financials look poor.

Prospective buyer beware. We tried to buy in back in the Fall. We made a very strong, full cash offer, had excellent financials and impressive references. Board strung us along for months. We had to call to find out we had been rejected. All of the units (4) that were in contract when we made our offer, are now back on the market. I wonder why?

It is almost impossible to buy a unit in this building. The board is extremely difficult and rude. In many cases those rejected are left hanging and not notified. Combine that with a single antiquated man operated elevator with incredibly high maintenance fees, and you have a situation in which you are setting yourself up for disappointment. I wouldn't waste your time.