Holiday Tipping Questions

Howdy Mercer, been busy with work so I've mostly been lurking here....

I think NYCMatt's attitude is a reflection of the poor state of communication from doormen as a group. It is helpful to have industry-wide guidelines. It can be whatever, but having that base makes things uniform. Maybe NYCMatt's building pays more salary than other buildings that allow tipping, who knows. But the lack of a standard leaves people confused. And the idiot self-proclaimed experts who write articles to the tune of "$200 per doormen, $100 per porter" without qualifying based on building & staff size don't help. So I don't particularly begrudge NYCMatt's attitude: his building has set its place at an extreme of the salary vs tip spectrum because the industry has failed in providing a coherent message.

The one attitude I find distasteful, however, is the "tip size will depend on my income". WTF is that? While I appreciate the notion that a hit to income resonates across the economy, this sort of artificial transference is silly. The tip is going to be maybe a percent or two of your all-in housing costs. You can't pay your rent / mortgage, fine, don't tip. But as long as you are using the service you signed up for and are financially capable of paying for that service, pay up.

"I usually don't steal food from the grocery store but if I'm having a bad year I sneak a can of SPAM every now and then. If I am having a bad year, everyone should have a bad year. In fact, one year my bonus was cut in half because my bank blew up and almost took down the world economy with it were it not for the bailout. That was a very bad year, but the asshole doctor who lives next door went out and bought a new car. So I smashed its windows. If I'm having a bad year, everyone should have a bad year."

>The one attitude I find distasteful, however, is the "tip size will depend on my income". WTF is that? While I appreciate the notion that a hit to income resonates across the economy, this sort of artificial transference is silly. The tip is going to be maybe a percent or two of your all-in housing costs. You can't pay your rent / mortgage, fine, don't tip. But as long as you are using the service you signed up for and are financially capable of paying for that service, pay up.

If people have a better than average or better than expected year, are they entitled to tip more? Is that distasteful even though it would fall under the category of, "tip size will depend on my income"? Maybe kylewest would chip in that extra $5 for the porter.

"I usually buy food from the grocery store but if I'm having a good year I go out to dinner every now and then which gives me the opportunity to support local small business as well as the servers there throuh my generous tips. If I am having a good year, others should have a good year. In fact, one year my bonus was doubled because my bank did well and really boosted the local economy in the process, not to mention all of the taxes the company plus the employees paid. That was a very good year, and the lovely doctor just out of school did well too and paid off some of her debt and was also able to go out and buy a new car. So I looked through its windows. If I'm having a good year, I hope everyone should have a good year."

"Both size of apartment and # of occupants are relevant."

Since the doormen and porters don't come to our apartment, ever, I don't see where the size of the apartment would affect the size of their tips. Only the Super and Handyman ever come to the apartment and they get tipped each time they preform a service during the year in addition to the yearend tip.

It seems to me a couple with 3 kids use much more of the doormen's services with nannies and strollers coming and going. Packing and unpacking when they go and shop in the burbs, or come back from their weekend place. Additionally the more people in the apartment, the more trash and mess that's produced and therefore more work for the porters. So in my opinion, a single person living in a 3 bedroom uses much less services than a couple with 3 kids living in a 2 bedroom and they should tip accordingly.

" But as long as you are using the service you signed up for and are financially capable of paying for that service, pay up."

They already HAVE paid up in their rent or maintenance check.

The issue here is whether they should be forced to pay EXTRA for service they've already paid for.

Thank you to all who posted on this thread; incredibly helpful info on a topic that is daunting to newbies such as myself. Specific numbers were most helpful, but I also enjoyed reading the various tipping philosophies. Personally, I tend to tip even those who perform below expectations in certain sectors of the economy for personal reasons, one of which is that I myself appreciated tips when I worked as a waitress and performed below expectations despite my best efforts (meanest and best tip I ever personally received was a note, written on a napkin, that said "TIP: Find something else to do - you will never make it in this line of work." Tip income was important to me at the time, but I did not begrudge the customer who left me no tip because s/he felt I deserved nothing beyond whatever my employer was legally obligated to pay me). For those who perform above expectations, I tip more than those who perform below expectations (and those who simply meet expectations get something in between), and the amount of tip for those who exceed expectations does fluctuate with how well I am doing in the particular year in question. If I am having a particularly good year income wise, I like to share that with everyone who I felt helped me have that good year. That does not mean that I don't tip at all when I am having a "bad" year.

Working as a waitress and earning below minimum wage is one thing. It's understandable that tip income would be important to you.

But working as a union super or doorman with health and pension is quite another. If tip income is that important to them, they're mismanaging their finances.

NYCMatt - I absolutely see your point and respect your POV here. That is why I liked reading the various philosophies. I can understand how a number of building-specific factors, as well as resident-specific factors could influence decision to tip or not, as well as size of tip.

My point Matt, is that if society expects that certain professions deserve tips, and in the case of waiters, the IRS assumes you get tipped WHETHER OR NOT YOU DO (based on a % of sales), then by golly we ought to just AUTOMATICALLY include the tip in the prices, the way Bloomingdale salespeople or Pharma reps get commission. I have been to more than a few NYC and SF restaurants lately where all party sized have tip added automatically. I went to a conference at a luxury hotel in Scottsdale AZ where they clearly stated all over the place that an 18% gratuity was built in to not only your room service bill, but your ROOM bill, parking bill, etc, and that therefore you NEVER had to pay a tip out of pocket. This 18% was divided pro-rata amongst the various employees.

Etc. Lets just make it explicit so we don't have to guess. How does this apply to apartments? A system like Matt's is not a terrible idea. Just tack some set % onto every monthly common charge/rent bill and at year end email all the residents with what the tip/bonus pool is based on this. Then let them rank their favorite bldg staff. You could divide half the bonus evenly and half based on who scored best in the voting. Or whatever.

But make it explicit.

Why do I tip anyone? I think my gut reaction is, given the choice, I wouldn't want THEIR job. Any kind of service where I would have to wait on someone ('course I wait on my kids :)). I'm not really thinking about minimum wage, pensions, IRS. So I tip.

RENY>> Since the doormen and porters don't come to our apartment, ever, I don't see where the size of the apartment would affect the size of their tips.

And yet 90+% of their income is paid for based on the size of the apt. And people tip twice as much for a $100 bottle of wine shared by 2 vs a $50 shared by 4 even though it's less work. The world must be a confusing place for you.

Inonada: it's not at all confusing. Again, don't need to overthink it, what does my gut say? I spend $100 on a bottle of wine for 2 - I feel like a jerk for not buying an $80 or a $60 bottle and sending the rest to charity. To compensate, I tip more than I would on a $50 split among 4.

I see my letter carrier (overweight) inching painfully up the street in rain, huffing and puffing with every step. Guess what? I tip more. If my letter carrier was lean and fit, I'd tip less. Is that fair? Nope. But that's what my gut says.

I love this gut reaction thing to tipping. Go with what feels good. I've never polled my friends, but I'm sure I tip more than the norm on a manicure or pedicure. Mani - gets $5. I don't care if the base price is $7 or $10 or $15. Pedi - $10 tip. If I got a 20 min. foot massage - $20 tip.

You pay for your foot massages?

lol, Matt.

NYCMATT,

I am not blind or deaf. Can you be more specific as to how the workers in the building shake you down, I am very curious. You also believe that just because a person gets paid you shouldn't tip them? Does that go for everyone? Can drivers? Hair salon people? Is there anyone you tip? You do know that the person of a tip is to show your gratitude. It is a thank you. How can one think that is wrong

Nobody has ever had reason to thank Matt.

Matt's fellow shareholders voted to make no-tipping a rule there.
If any shareholders want to give the staff members a tip (or just the ones they decide to give) they can handshake it to the staffer.
A holiday handshake with a little something extra.

tipping as a thank you can be inappropriate--and tipping can be a device whereby some seek to curry favor--as in my super jumps when i speak bc i out-tip all my fellow shareholders...where the cheap family on 10 get no attention bc they under-tip

and i believe that teachers should not be tipped

and certainly cops shouldn't

this all said i tip those who can appropriately tipped generously (i think)--incl my building staff, as noted below.

I think public sector employees (e.g., police and teachers) are generally precluded from accepting tips, gifts, etc. by law (I say generally because I think there are exceptions for de minimum amounts), and anyone offering anything to a public servant needs to tread carefully b/c public servants in areas with which I am familiar (limited) receive training to be aware of what could be construed as a bribe. Appearance of impropriety and corruption are the driving concern. This is not a legal opinion, but this comment was prompted by introduction of thought that someone might consider tipping a teacher or policeman. Does anybody tip teachers? I don't have kids, so I have no idea and am genuinely curious. If so, does it occur in both private and public schools?

"Can you be more specific as to how the workers in the building shake you down, I am very curious."

By sending out holiday greeting cards with all the staffers' names on it, heavily implying a tip for each of them.

Leaving a box in the lobby for the tips.

Throughout the year, building staff making a note of who didn't tip (or who didn't tip enough), and giving them *less* service than those who gave "appropriate" tips.

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"You also believe that just because a person gets paid you shouldn't tip them?"

No, that is not what I said at all. Go back and re-read my posts.

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Is there anyone you tip?"

Yes. Wait staff.

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You do know that the person of a tip is to show your gratitude. It is a thank you. How can one think that is wrong"

Because for most people who are getting appropriately paid, a tip is construed as condescending and insulting. Do you tip your attorney and physician?

Tip by either donating to suggested dollar pool by coop board . Or give silver dollars, as they have appreciated over time. At least 3 silver dollars worth say 100 dollars to each staff member... Top people get gold ducat... About 200.