If you can demonstrate market movement with comps, please post here.

Newbuyer99 - I don't know how you could possibly think about buying in this environment, but if I were considering it, I'd want to price in anticipated depreciation. Sellers will probably not respond to bids 25% off ask, but that would be at minimum my starting point (on average) if I were even thinking about buying. And that doesn't capture the full depreciation potential of prices over the next few years.

"if you are working from a point where owning represents a massive after tax savings to renting"
- are there any such opportunities? I don't think there have been for years. Prices would have to come down probably 25-35% to match today's rents (after-tax), and rents will be falling.

Farquhar, I agree. There have not been such opportunities since the late 1990s. My only point is if and when owning is so much cheaper than rents (even are rents falls), I would consider buying a place with a short timeframe. I am talking about when a $5k/month rental is trading at 10-12x annualized rent. We will get there. What's scary is rents will go down. And guess what, it might actually be nice to have Manhattan that humans can afford. Who was buying all these $3mm classic 7s....

Agree Rhino. A Manhattan that humans can afford is a great idea. NYC will soon be a very very different place.

After the fire, hopefully the new seedlings will be the artists, musicians and others who made the NYC landscape so enthralling before the hedge fund days.

Yes, no one hates his own industry more than I do. Hahaha. The douchbag i-bankers all because douchbag hedgies. Many a time have I shared a meeting with company management at a conference and wanted to punch out the kid next to me. When I say kid, I mean 26. I'm a seasoned 34.

"all became douchbag hedgies"

I second that question "who was buying all these 3mm classic 7s?" Did they all finance themselves at 20% down to the tune of 20k a month mortgage for 30 years? Why the hell is the whole country insane when it comes to taking on such massive debt? In 2005 I thought everyone was insane for actually believing that housing prices would never go down, now it really sucks to be the fiscally responsible person bailing out all the idiots with more tax dollars.

Back to the original theme -
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/359577-condo-1080-madison-avenue-upper-east-side-new-york
I saw this when it was listed at 1.85. Sold at 1.75. So now it's down 9% on the offered side. Oh well stocks are down 50% so I guess one can't complain.
StreetEasy History
05/06/2008 Previous sale closed for $1,750,000
10/23/2008 Listed in StreetEasy by Corcoran at $1,600,000

Brodie are you suggesting 1600/ft for condo space offered is a good piece of data? Can people please understand that asks are meaningless.

the issue brodie is that real estate is highly levered. that -9% is on the purchase price. if the buyer/flipper put 20% like many did. The real loss is 150,000/350,000 or -42%, after sale commissions its 250,000/350,000 or -71%!! That does not include taxes and that assumes they can even get the current asking price.

Listen the thing to do is buy stock. If it goes down another 20%, then sell it, lever it 10 to 1 and buy real estate at 50c on the dollar. Stock market is so far out ahead of real estate in Manhattan it's unbelievable. Outside of Manhattan and the boroughs, the same argument doesn't necessarily apply.

90 Riverside Drive, "F" line (large classic six, no river view). #15F was reduced to $1.795MM today. It opened at $2.195MM just after Labor Day.

--------Recorded Sales----------|--------Previous Listings----------
CURRENT ....... #15F ......................... | ↓$1,795,000 2-3 beds
02/23/2006 #11F $1,860,000 -6.8% | $1,995,000 2 beds 2 baths
03/01/2005 #11F $1,800,000 ........... |

#11F was in estate condition at the time of both sales, as #15F is now (though the owners haven't died; they simply left NYC). #15F probably gets a good deal more light that #11F. Otherwise, they're the same apartment.
http://www.prudentialelliman.com/Listings.aspx?ListingID=1025172

Rhino86, I agree. The market doesn't move when the listing price changes. The market moves when there is a sale.

"The buyer makes the price, not the seller" - Thomas Hobbes

Here's a nice one for anyone who thinks only smaller apartments or marginal neighborhoods are at risk:

300 West End Avenue, Apartment 5A

STREETEASY HISTORY
10/23/2006
Previous sale closed for $5,562,500
04/11/2008
Listed in StreetEasy by Elliman at $6,950,000
07/10/2008
Price decreased to $5,975,000
10/22/2008
Price decreased to $5,475,000

This is actually one half of the full-floor apartment previously owned by Harry Belafonte. The whole floor is also available for $10.95 million. Abigail Disney (yes, of the Disneys) is trying to unload it.

785 Park 8B now listed for $985,000

Recorded sale: 09/15/2006 #9B $1,101,025

STREETEASY HISTORY
02/14/2008
Listed in StreetEasy by Halstead Property at $1,250,000
03/10/2008
Price decreased to $1,195,000
04/17/2008
Price decreased to $1,095,000
06/06/2008
Price decreased to $1,025,000
07/11/2008
Price decreased to $995,000
10/11/2008
Price decreased to $985,000

201 East 77th 15A:
STREETEASY HISTORY
09/03/2008
Listed in StreetEasy by Halstead Property at $600,000
09/19/2008
Price decreased to $585,000

Recorded sale: 11/26/2007 #5A $600,000 -4.8% $630,000 ↓ 1 bed 1 baths

Hey that 300 West End Ave could go on the "Where are prices below 2006 Q4 levels" thread.

This is why now is NOT the time to buy. These poor folks caught the knife on the way down and now they are stuck on the 2nd floor when they could have had the 4th floor for less money only TWO MONTHS later:

330 east 79th:

Current Listing:
$1,395,000
330 East 79th Street #4A 3 beds 1,400 ft²

Recorded Sales: 09/03/2008 #2A $1,400,000

2 Horatio Street 6R
STREETEASY HISTORY
09/18/2008
Listed in StreetEasy by Classic Marketing at $1,100,000
10/03/2008
Price decreased to $985,000

Recorded sales:

11/08/2007 #3R $1,200,000 -7.6%
12/22/2006 #10-R $1,180,000 -5.6%

145 East 18th 8E
STREETEASY HISTORY
09/17/2008
Listed in StreetEasy by Corcoran at $550,000
10/18/2008
Price decreased to $499,000

Recorded sale:
05/22/2007 #6E $520,000

excellent examples, thanks happyrenter!

The more things change the more they stay the same. $1,000,000 is a lot of money today. Same as 1932

Here's a piece of data - 16 e. 96th, the $1.595mm listing that was reduced to $1.4mm, I get the sense from the broker they would accept $1.2mm range, which would put it in line with 7D on a per square foot basis, and put the sale at -25% to the original ask, although arguably it was overpriced to start. Also without a second bath, at roughly 1400 sqft, it's tough to comp this apartment. All this said, getting it for $1.2mm is a substantial difference from what it could have fetched in Q1.

If this one is true, it's particularly painful. Somehow I find the recorded sale price hard to believe, but if true, wowza.

STREETEASY HISTORY
05/24/2007
Previous sale closed for $6,600,000
11/10/2007
Previously listed in StreetEasy by Elliman for $4,950,000
07/22/2008
Listed in StreetEasy by Vandenberg at $4,850,000
08/12/2008
Elliman listing unavailable at $4,950,000
10/23/2008
Price decreased to $4,350,000

And another--this apartment actually looks great, if you can stomach Park Avenue and 96th Street.

1230 Park Avenue 17C
STREETEASY HISTORY
05/16/2008
Listed in StreetEasy by Corcoran at $1,150,000
06/28/2008
Price decreased to $1,050,000
09/28/2008
Price decreased to $990,000
10/25/2008
Price decreased to $949,000

Recorded Sale:
05/24/2006 #10C $1,050,000

Happyrenter the problem there is that they want like 2x the purchase price in the bank after closing. You are right though, I looked at that apartment, nice 'bones'. Since no one has that kind of dough these days, expect it to keep falling.

Anyone fancy a Park view classic six on 5th Ave and 77th? Would you rather be on the 4th floor or the 11th?

965 5th Avenue 11B
STREETEASY HISTORY
02/08/2008
Listed in StreetEasy by Sotheby's at $5,500,000
05/09/2008
Price decreased to $5,250,000
07/03/2008
Price decreased to $4,950,000
10/20/2008
Price decreased to $3,750,000
10/23/2008
Price increased to $4,750,000
10/24/2008
Price decreased to $3,750,000

Recorded Sale
08/21/2007 #4B $5,550,000

Jeez! Negative $1.8MM in a year for 965 5th! Now if only I could afford the $4,670 in maintenance charges . . .

Rhino86, would love to hear if you've looked at 16 E. 96th 3F. I haven't seen it even though we're friends with the sellers. I know for a fact they've put $ into improving the kitchen and replacing the windows (to block out Madison Ave. noise). $1.2MM seems real low since they paid close to that to begin with and put money in (they had an offer at $1.4 - don't know what happened to it), but maybe.

415 Central Park West "D" line: large classic six; living room and one bedroom face the Park.

--------Recorded Sales----------|--------Previous Listings----------
CURRENT ....... #8D ......................... | ↓$1,450,000 2 beds + maid's, 2.5 baths
08/25/2008 #14D $1,666,000 -1.9% | $1,699,000 3 beds 2 baths
05/07/2008 #14D ............................. | ↓$1,699,000 3 beds 2.5 baths
07/25/2007 . #5D $1,615,000 +1.0% | $1,599,000 3 beds 3 baths
10/06/2006 . #6D $1,600,000 ........ |
04/11/2005 . #7D $1,590,000 ........ |
08/03/2004 . #5D ...$920,000 ........ |

It's hard to be sure about condition from the listings. #8D has an updated kitchen. #14D doesn't seem to have offered anything special. Of these apartments, #5D probably had the most notable interior features: the couple who bought it in 2004 did an extensive renovation that included a kosher-ready kitchen. Overall, the "D" line seem to be fair comps for each other. #8D has been on the market forever, and it was just cut $150K after dropping only $96K in the previous year and a half.

JT - They paid $1.1-something only back in 2007. The market is down from that point in time, seemingly clear from the data in this thread. Their ask is $1.4mm so that offer must have gone away somehow. I asked the broker to let me know when they would be amenable to something in the $1.2mm range. She told me, they would consider it now. They supposedly turned down an offer in the $1.1mm range. Amanda is a chatty Cathy. I roughed that apartment out around 1380 sqft. Bigger apartments usually get higher dollars per sqft, but it's rare to find an apartment that large without a second bath. As a true 2 & 2 even in this market, I would think it could only command $1.3mm, so it doesn't seem to me that $1.2-something is crazy. In the end they are asking $1.4mm so for sure they'd take something under that. It photographs well.

Rhino86: you're probably right. You know the bldg well now and know it's a good one despite some shortcomings. Don't think 3F is in quite as good shape as 7D and is obviously closer to noise, if you care.

It'd be crazy to have you end up in the bldg after all.

Anything could happen but it wouldn't be soon. I just believe that once momentum starts it typically lasts longer than anyone expects. You also can't go wrong at this point by simply waiting for the data to turn positive, whenever that may be - for the same reason. It's a solid building, nice families. Also mortals can pass the board. 3F is closer to noise, but on the same tip it may be brighter. Broker says the ceiling is higher too.

Possibly brighter in the early am, not in the afternoon. Hear you re: momentum. I would guess 3F will be gone before it turns the other way, but sounds like that's a risk you're more than willing to take.

309 West 86th Street "B" line: 2BR/1.5BA. Faces north (to the rear, toward 87th).

--------Recorded Sales----------|--------Previous Listings----------
CURRENT ........ #8B ......................... | ↓.. $950,000 2 beds 1,200 ft²
06/04/2008 #11B $1,200,000 -3.9% | ↓$1,249,000 2 beds 1.5 baths 1,200 ft²
04/05/2006 #12B $1,100,000 ........ | .$1,100,000 2 beds 1.5 baths 1,200 ft²
08/27/2004 #10B ... $865,000 ....... |

#8B is handsomely renovated, with an excellent kitchen, so condition is not an issue at all. Because the "B" line is rear-facing, elevation is very significant; but the view from #8B is mostly open.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/345790-coop-111-fourth-avenue-east-village-new-york

down over 20% in less than two months--and compare to comps.

09/03/2008
Listed in StreetEasy by Corcoran at $1,249,000
09/17/2008
Price decreased to $1,149,000
10/10/2008
Price decreased to $1,095,000
10/25/2008
Price decreased to $997,000

Recorded sale
07/12/2006 #3I $975,000 $975,000 2 beds 1 baths

In this building, with huge windows on noisy 4th avenue, altitude is critical--normally I would expect at least a 15% premium from the 3rd floor (noisy and dirty) to the sixth (lovely views, as evident in the pictures). It looks like these people need to sell, proving the maxim that real estate prices are set at the margins.

2004 here we come...
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/234595-condo-101-west-79th-street-upper-west-side-new-york

STREETEASY HISTORY
05/14/2008
Listed in StreetEasy by Corcoran at $1,395,000
06/20/2008
Price decreased to $1,325,000
07/23/2008
Price decreased to $1,275,000
09/17/2008
Price decreased to $1,195,000
10/25/2008
Price decreased to $1,095,000

recorded sales

07/23/2007 #5C $1,300,000 +0.4%
08/03/2004 #3C $995,000

2005 prices, apparently

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/349613-coop-250-west-94th-street-upper-west-side-new-york

10 H
STREETEASY HISTORY
09/17/2008
Listed in StreetEasy by Corcoran at $1,995,000
10/02/2008
Price decreased to $1,895,000
10/27/2008
Price decreased to $1,795,000

Recorded Sale:
05/02/2005 #3H $1,800,000

And in the same buildling:
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/350872-coop-250-west-94th-street-upper-west-side-new-york

10C
09/22/2008
Listed in StreetEasy by Elliman at $1,795,000

Recorded Sale:
07/07/2008 #6-C $2,040,000 -0.5% $2,050,000

happyrenter: It's hard to be sure what to make of that 2005 #3H comp without knowing condition. The big news, IMHO, is that #10H is now priced $75K below where #4H (a total wreck on a much lower floor) sold earlier this year.
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/230922-coop-250-west-94th-street-upper-west-side-new-york

#10H needs a new kitchen, and the huge foyer is a criminal waste of space, but those are relatively easy problems to solve.

Fair enough. Still, regardless of the condition its hard to imagine a 3rd floor unit in the same line being preferable to the 10th floor. But you're right, without info on condition we can't be sure.

And take a look at 670 WEA: 5E now asking less than 2E sold for in 2007.

10 >> 3

If only I would ever, in a million years, consider living on East End Avenue:

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/227863-coop-33-east-end-avenue-yorkville-new-york

Recorded sales:

10/16/2008 #9C $640,000 -6.6%
09/06/2007 #7C $855,000 +2.4%
02/06/2007 #2C $787,500 -8.4%

Looks like 9C was an estate sale, so it's hard to know how much of that is market movement. Given that contract was signed over the summer, one can only imagine how low similar apartments would go in today's market...low $500s would seem reasonable.

Revisiting 470 West End "B" line: #10B finally closed for $2.3MM after opening at $2.995MM in March, dropping three times to 2.45MM and going to contract four months ago.
http://a836-acris.nyc.gov/Scripts/DocSearch.dll/Detail?Doc_ID=2008102100292001
The price, struck midway between Bear and Lehman, is 15% below a solid 2006 comp four floors below:
--------Recorded Sales----------|--------Previous Listings----------
10/26/2008 #10B $2,300,000 ..-6.1% | ↓$2,450,000 2 beds + maid's, 2.5 baths
06/21/2006 #6B $2,710,290 +18.1% |.. $2,295,000 3 beds 2 baths
The renovations of #10B and #6B appear to have been comparable, and both apartments were in excellent condition. In #6B, the maid's suite was merged into a big chef's kitchen, the corner bedroom was split into two small rooms for kids, and the foyer was walled off as a windowless playroom. In #10B, the maid's room serves as the third bedroom and the kitchen was opened up to the living/dining area.

At 470 West End, looks like 4B just went on the market for $2.4m. I can't imagine they'll be pleased to have the 3B sale price as a matter of public record. Hard to imagine they'd get more than 2m any time soon.

John Doe, I think you are a bit off--I don't see any sale for 3B. But I am surprised, given those comps, that they decided to be so aggressive with their pricing. I guess some people are so afraid of people low-balling that they keep prices artificially high as some sort of defense. To me, it's no more than a psychological defense; buyers can compare comps just as easily as sellers.

This is a perfectly nice classic six, but nothing spectacular.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/360695-coop-470-west-end-ave-upper-west-side-new-york

Revisiting 245 West 99th (Ariel West) #7C. This one was posted by OnTheMove, then plagiarized by me after a price cut. Now it has been cut again:

--------Recorded Sales------------|--------Previous Listings----------
CURRENT ..... #7C ................... |↓$1,450,000 2 beds 1,320 ft²
01/10/2008 #7C $1,558,000 |
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/229434-condo-245-west-99th-street-upper-west-side-new-york

Since the owners bought from the sponsor, their effective price was probably a little over $1.6MM, which would mean the current asking price reflects a 9% drop. The only good news for the sellers is that they sold their 1BR at 565 WEA at the top of the market:
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/closings/manhattan/name%3Amarc+sternfeld
Blowing the gain from that sale (and having to commute from New Jersey) must be painful, but it's not as devastating as what some sellers are likely to face.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/161930-condo-201-east-80th-street-yorkville-new-york

201 East 80th, #11D - 2 bed 2.5 bath condo, 1,400 sf
Sellers purchased August 07 for $1,723,000. After returning the apt. to the market, it is now down to $1,595,000.

08/25/2006
Previously listed in StreetEasy by Halstead Property for $1,695,000
08/13/2007
Previous sale closed for $1,723,000
12/19/2007
Listed in StreetEasy by Brown Harris Stevens at $1,995,000
02/28/2008
Price decreased to $1,925,000
03/13/2008
Price decreased to $1,875,000
04/30/2008
Price decreased to $1,775,000
09/03/2008
Price decreased to $1,695,000
10/30/2008
Price decreased to $1,595,000

Riverside Drive losing equity vs 2006. This one is likely to lose every cent put into the place if they truly want to move it.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/94906-condo-222-riverside-drive-upper-west-side-new-york?email=true

04/28/2006 Previously listed in StreetEasy by Elliman for $2,200,000
08/17/2006 Previous sale closed for $2,200,000
07/16/2007 Listed in StreetEasy by Brown Harris Stevens at $2,850,000
08/08/2007 Price decreased to $2,795,000
09/07/2007 Price decreased to $2,695,000
09/25/2007 Price decreased to $2,500,000
05/29/2008 Price decreased to $2,300,000
10/30/2008 Price decreased to $2,100,000

kas242, talk about buying at the peak. it still won't sell at the current ask... ditto for the riverside apt by walterh7. good finds!

20% in Tribeca prime...

http://curbed.com/archives/2008/10/31/morning_massacre_somebody_dropped_the_soap.php

222 Riverside: God, you have to really feel for these people. There is a Classic 7 in a much better building (490 West End) in a much better location on the market for under $2 million. I don't see how these people are going to unload this place for anywhere even close to that asking price, even with a river view.

As for 201 East 80th...I just don't understand some people. Apartments like that are a dime a dozen in that area. Why would they ever have paid that kind of money for such a bland, ordinary apartment?

2BR/2BA on UES. Sellers looking for a 25% loss and counting....
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/357797-condo-1641-third-avenue-yorkville-new-york

01/29/2008 Previous sale closed for $1,225,000
10/15/2008 Listed in StreetEasy by Corcoran at $1,025,000
10/31/2008 Price decreased to $925,000

happyrenter - the place at 222 Riverside simply has larger rooms, which makes a difference. I would not pay asking price for either, but if I had to choose for my family, 222 Riverside would win hands down.

1641 Third Ave - still too much at $1000 per real sf (measured at 914, a bit lower than their 1162).

where did you get 914 from?

WOW johndoe. Those poor people are really fucked.

258 Riverside Drive "D" line: Victorian seven, typically converted to six. River/park views from living room/parlor area, garden views from turret/bay window in dining room. With the new reduction to $2.2MM, and the various de-listings and re-listings, #5D probably qualifies for the "Chasing the market down" thread. I posted it here because it's now 9-10% below the second-floor comp. The footprints are the same, and both apartments are renovated; #5D has the disadvantages of only two bedrooms and much more "distinctive" design choices, but those issues are pretty easy (and probably cheap) to address.

--------Recorded Sales----------|--------Previous Listings----------
CURRENT ...... #5D ............................... |↓$2,200,000 2 beds
09/09/2008 #5D ............................. | $2,550,000 2 beds 2 baths
08/01/2007 #5D ............................. |↓$2,595,000 2 beds 2 baths
03/09/2007 #5D ............................. | $2,700,000 2 beds 2 baths
12/14/2006 #2D $2,445,000 -1.8% | $2,490,000 3 beds 2 baths

Here's the BHS link with the latest reduction, which hasn't hit StreetEasy yet:
http://www.brownharrisstevens.com/detail.aspx?id=942052
An adjacent apartment is also available; the combination is now asking $4.75MM, which is still crazy. $4MM would be more realistic.
http://www.brownharrisstevens.com/detail.aspx?id=942070

JohnDoe/happyrenter: Classic bubble purchase. That apartment (#35H) sold for $475K in 2003, and again for $830K in 2005. Anyone who paid $1.225MM for it in 2008 figures to get hosed, even if there were some minor interior upgrades along the way. The current ask doesn't even cover the outstanding debt, let alone the downpayment of ~20%. BTW, the interior square footage looks like ~1000 to me, but 1,162 is consistent with prior filings.

West 81st, I saw 258 D-Line recently and I have to say, I am not a fan. The bedrooms are quite small, and somehow the front area, which should feel expansive and open, doesn't quite work. Certainly the decor--which is totally ugly--doesn't help. But the apartment itself is, meh, just not that great, IMHO.

You are right about the bubble purchase on the UES, I just feel for these poor people. How could they possibly have paid that much for that apartment--it is just a boring, typical, post-war UES apartment. There are thousands of them. I don't see how it sells for more than 800,000 in this market and even that could be tough.

"it is just a boring, typical, post-war UES apartment"

on 89th and York at that. That really is stunning price appreciation. I bought my fairly ordinary 2 br in 2003 for 795 and sold in mid 2007, for about 1.3. I thought that was pretty dramatic, this was crazy.

ccdevi: 91st and 3rd, I think - unless you're looking at a different listing than the one in Rupert Towers.

Here's a nice one:

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/344988-condo-22-west-15th-street-flatiron-new-york

22 West 15th 6D:

11/18/2005 Previous sale closed for $795,000
05/08/2007 Previously listed in StreetEasy by Elliman for $895,000
07/06/2007 Previous sale closed for $910,000
08/28/2008 Listed in StreetEasy by Brown Harris Stevens at $995,000
09/29/2008 Price decreased to $960,000
10/09/2008 Price decreased to $925,000
10/17/2008 Price decreased to $895,000

Evidently there is a "recent" renovation, but I'm guessing vefore the last sale? In any case, they are now asking less than they paid in 2007.

Upper East Side, Philip Johnson, B line, 1658 SF:

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/316079-condo-181-east-90th-street-carnegie-hill-new-york

Looks like we might be headed back to 2005...

06/27/2008 Listed in StreetEasy by Elliman at $2,700,000
09/10/2008 Price decreased to $2,400,000
10/24/2008 Price decreased to $2,200,000

Comps:
07/17/2008 #14B $2,232,500 -2.7% $2,295,000
07/17/2008 #14B $2,350,000 +2.4% $2,295,000
(not sure what happened there!)
06/26/2008 #23B $2,375,000 -4.8% $2,495,000
08/22/2007 #24B $2,475,000 -2.9% $2,550,000
02/25/2005 #30B $2,150,000
01/21/2005 #28B $2,025,000
11/01/2004 #27B $1,925,000
07/15/2004 #23B $1,750,000
06/03/2004 #21B $1,588,470
05/24/2004 #22B $1,608,835
05/20/2004 #17B $1,308,451

↓ 2 beds 2.5 baths 1,658 ft²

Here's another good one, just re-listed for $2.1M, $257K less than last year's closing price.

1 Morton Square 5EW (sorry no streeteasy listing yet)
http://www.prudentialelliman.com/1006177

Sold: 07/30/2007 #5EW $2,357,000
11/08/2007 Listed in StreetEasy by Elliman at $3,495,000
11/19/2007 Price increased to $3,499,000
11/26/2007 Price decreased to $3,495,000
12/03/2007 Price increased to $3,499,000
12/11/2007 Price decreased to $3,495,000
10/06/2008 Elliman listing temporarily off-market

BONUS - it's owned by one of our "favorite" brokers on the streeteasy boards...

Sukenik = screwed? Thanks, Jess. That's one case where schadenfreude is almost mandatory.

From the Times in 2005:

Darren Sukenik, a senior vice president for luxury residential sales at Douglas Elliman, who recently moved into one of the three units he bought at Morton Square in the West Village, believes it enhances his performance on the job to be in the market himself.

"Cardiologists should get on a treadmill four times a week to practice what they preach," he said. "I feel we have to be in the market ourselves, otherwise we are being hypocritical. How can we have insight and foresight if we don't take our own advice?"

Mr. Sukenik sold his two units "the minute I closed," he said, almost doubling the price he paid when he went into contract about 18 months ago....

Though there is nothing specific written into state law that governs the licensing of real estate agents, "under common law, the broker has the responsibility to tell the seller the maximum they can get for the property," said Peter Constantakes, a spokesman for the New York Department of State. "Trying to get it at a lower price for themselves is a breach of fiduciary duty, so they would be liable for damages from the seller and the loss of license."

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/02/13/realestate/13cov.html

Finally, this one is in contract after countless number of price drops. Latest asking is 1.2M. Sold in 2006 for 1.65M.
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/87982-condo-140-seventh-avenue-chelsea-new-york?email=true

Here's a nice little seller-competition situation at West End and 72nd Street:

First 3C goes on the market at 769k...
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/361919-coop-260-west-end-avenue-lincoln-square-new-york

Then 15C (perhaps needing some work, I can't tell) goes on the market 2 days later for 679k...
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/363213-coop-260-west-end-avenue-lincoln-square-new-york

Here are the comps for that line:
01/11/2008 #10-C $755,000 -1.3% $765,000
09/20/2006 #16C $772,005 -3.4% $799,000 ↓
10/28/2005 #9C $750,000
05/17/2004 #4C $511,888

When sellers compete, you win.

And in the same buildling:

Meanwhile 9D has been reduced 1.099m...
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/210410-coop-260-west-end-avenue-lincoln-square-new-york

Then 14D goes on the market for 975k...
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/210410-coop-260-west-end-avenue-lincoln-square-new-york

Today is just full of goodies. 40 East 9th Street:

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/363160-coop-40-east-9th-street-greenwich-village-new-york

03/29/2008 Previously listed in StreetEasy by Corcoran for $2,400,000
08/05/2008 Previous sale closed for $2,105,000
11/06/2008 Listed in StreetEasy by Halstead Property at $1,995,000

Including transaction costs, I'd say these poor folks will lose half a million if they are lucky.

And for those of you who don't believe that we are headed for 2004 prices (I would say 2002 or 2003 myself):

06/10/2004 Previous sale closed for $2,240,150
01/29/2008 Previously listed in StreetEasy by Sotheby's for $2,995,000
07/31/2008 Sotheby's listing unavailable at $2,750,000
08/01/2008 Listed in StreetEasy by Corcoran at $2,675,000
11/04/2008 Price decreased to $2,599,000

Would 2004 prices really be 15% less than 2004 prices, given inflation....?

Yes they would, nyc10022. Not to mention transaction costs. I won't factor in opporunity cost, however, given that other investments have performed poorly over the same period.

Updates on two buildings I’ve posted about before…

At the A Building, 425 East 13th St:

#5E Recorded Sale
10/6/08 $525,000

#6E Recorded Sale
03/20/2008 $645,000
#4E Recorded Sale
01/14/2008 $645,000

So, a nearly 19% drop for an identical apartment since closings early this year.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/building/425-east-13-street-new_york

At 106 Suffolk Street:

#3B Active Listing
$549,000

#5B Recorded Sale
08/08/2007 $712,500

23% lower than last year’s sale in the same line. I don’t know how conditions compare (though 3B doesn't look bad in the pics, there's no shot of the bathroom), but considering the additional two floors you’d have to walk up for the comp, this is an even steeper drop.

The listing says “YOU THINK THE STOCK MARKET FELL FAST! NOW $549K (WAS LISTED AT $725K), THIS IS THE MOST UNBELIEVABLE DEAL IN THE LES! BEYOND AN UNBELIEVABLE PRICE…”

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/building/106-suffolk-street-manhattan

Here is one:

1165 Park Avenue PH15-16B:
06/23/2008 - Sold for $23,000,000
09/12/2008 - Listed in StreetEasy by Stribling at $24,900,000
11/17/2008 - Price decreased to $19,950,000

Yes, you read that right - if it sells at asking, they are facing a $3,050,000 loss.

And those 106 Suffolk cuts took place 4 weeks ago and it still hasn't sold.

Don't be silly In_contract. The price was reduced simply to incite the inevitable bidding war that will actually net the seller a price well in excess of the original purchase. Still amazes me how people seem to forget that Manhattan is different than the rest of the country. Finance jobs, Foreigners, not making any more of it, The Plaza etc. etc. Well, it is an island!

I'm assuming jake is being tongue-in-cheek???

Indeed. Somehow, the broker babble from the good ole days just doesn't have the same ring to it!

Now this is what I call movement:

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/366879-coop-244-madison-avenue-midtown-south-new-york

244 Madison 7I listed at $499k

Previous Sale:
07/01/2008 #4I $700,000 -3.5% $725,000 1 bed 1 baths
12/21/2006 #14I $599,000

Here's some pretty incredible movement
http://www.corcoran.com/property/listing.aspx?Region=NYC&listingid=1450750

200 West Houston 3-4B
Asking 1.725 million

Recorded Sales:
03/27/2008 #3B $895,000 $895,000 1 bed 1.5 baths
05/22/2006 #4B $799,000 $799,000 ↓ 1 bed 1.5 baths 800 ft

This means that since March, these apartments have been gut renovated and COMBINED, and now the new unit is being sold for only 25k more than the prices each of the two apartments sold for. This must have been a minimum 250k renovation--probably more.

I take it back--I just looked at the pictures and original floor plans. This must have cost at least 400k to renovate and combine, absolutely everything was done.

You guys don't know what you're talking about. Real estate is about to SOAR in Manhattan.

http://www.amazon.com/Real-Estate-Boom-Will-Bust/dp/0385514352/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1227280733&sr=8-1

Why the Real Estate Boom Will Not Bust - And How You Can Profit from It: How to Build Wealth in Today's Expanding Real Estate Market

Or this one:

http://www.amazon.com/Dow-2008-Different-This-Time/dp/1893958701/ref=pd_sim_b_3

"Dow, 30,000 by 2008" Why It's Different This Time - Second Printing

SECOND PRINTING!

http://www.amazon.com/Dow-40-000-Strategies-Profiting/dp/0071351280/ref=pd_sim_b_2

Dow 40,000: Strategies for Profiting From the Greatest Bull Market in History (Hardcover)

There are SO MANY good opportunities out there!

Actually, steve, there are good opportunities. If the Dow were at 30,000, there wouldn't be. When the market goes down, that's when you buy. Not yet in NY real estate, but lots of opportunities to invest your money productively.

Anyway, back to the topic of this thread, serious movement on a lovely UWS prewar 1 bedroom:

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/363213-coop-260-west-end-avenue-lincoln-square-new-york

260 West End Avenue 15C Reduced to $619k

Recorded Sales:
01/11/2008 #10-C $755,000 -1.3% $765,000
09/25/2007 #8C $605,000 +1.0% $599,000 ↓
09/20/2006 #16C $772,005 -3.4% $799,000 ↓ 1 bed 1 baths
10/28/2005 #9C $750,000

16 C is really the relevant comp--view--but I included the others as well. That is a decline of 22% from the close price of 16C in '06 to the asking price of 15C now.

HR, I was being facetious.

We are going back to 2003 prices, not 2006 prices. This has just begun.

Invest in China.

How about this one--I guess this really belongs in the favorite price chops thread but I'm lazy, so here you go:
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/239167-coop-30-fifth-avenue-greenwich-village-new-york

30 5th Avenue 7GH:
STREETEASY HISTORY
05/17/2008
Listed in StreetEasy by Corcoran at $2,295,000
10/17/2008
Price decreased to $2,050,000
11/20/2008
Price decreased to $1,795,000

This one is a bit hard to gauge--it is in 'original condition,' and the apartments are back-facing so I don't know what kind of view you get from the 6th floor. Nevertheless, it looks like pretty dramatic movement. Classic 7 for this price in this location is pretty eye-popping.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/353070-coop-8-east-96th-street-carnegie-hill-new-york
8 East 96th Apartmet 6C reduced to 1.745

Active Listings (2)
$2,850,000
8 East 96th Street #9C 3 beds

Recorded Sales:
07/12/2006 #11C $2,700,000 -3.6%
04/03/2006 #16C $2,825,000 -4.2%
01/17/2006 #8C $2,350,000
08/16/2004 #15C $2,452,000

Interesting: $1,795,000

History:

30 5TH AVENUE, 7H Manhattan 4/25/2006 $845,000

A comp:

30 5TH AVENUE, 10G Manhattan 1/20/2005 $775,000

So in 2005-2006 it would have cost $1.65-ish to buy both apartments. Now they list it for just a bit over that, but it's not combined yet:

http://www.corcoran.com/property/FloorPlan.aspx?Region=NYC&ListingID=1267645

Crash.

Here's a serious seller: that's almost a 20% cut today, and look at the comps:

66 Madison Ave 8A
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/350288-coop-66-madison-avenue-midtown-south-new-york

STREETEASY HISTORY
09/19/2008
Listed in StreetEasy by CBHK at $559,000
10/10/2008
Price decreased to $475,000
11/21/2008
Price decreased to $399,000

Recorded Sales:
01/31/2006 #6A $595,000 -4.8%
10/18/2004 #5A $410,000

Following up on Happyrenter's post from three weeks ago, 240 West 94th #10C has been reduced from $1.795MM to $1.595MM, or about $1K psf:

http://www.prudentialelliman.com/Listings.aspx?ListingID=1032516

The July comp was #6C at $2.04MM. Identical footprint. Despite the lower floor, #6C is probably worth bit more as it was nicely renovated and converted to 3BR prior to the sale.

If we say that the best-priced apartments determine the market, at this point what's your best guess as to where we are in terms of pricing - 2005 levels? 2004?

happyrenter, that's an amazing price on that Madison ave: below a 2004 comp. So soon. And the apartment actually measures every inch of 700 sq ft, so it's really a bit over 500 per sqft. Only bad thing is high maintenance.

west81st I think you mean 250 west 94th, but thanks for the update. I think that given the four floor difference the apartments are close to comparable in terms of value, but then I am obsessed with light and air.

yournamehere, i think that it is very possible to get an apartment at 2004 levels. there is so little sales volume right now it is hard to say where the market really is right now, and certainly a lot of sellers are still hoping for peak price, but there are enough at that level that i think that's a fair estimate.

i'd also say that i think the market is heading straight down and you would be foolish to buy now.

happyrenter: Thanks. I fat-fingered the address. Looks like a nice apartment, though it might need updating. Good building too, and it comes with an express subway stop and the best liquor store in the neighborhood.

trompiloco,

i was impressed with that price as well particularly since it is actually a very nice location two blocks from washington square park. any remaining real estate bulls out there?

west81st, what do you think of 10H in the same building? Classic 6 layout. 10C clearly had to reduce to stay cheaper than the Classic 6, but do you think 10H is a good apartment as well?

Happyrenter: I've seen 10H; wrote it up on an open house thread somewhere. Nice space, and a fairly open view to the north over Pomander Walk. Needs a need kitchen and a total rework of the floorplan.

sorry, i wish i had that last post. the floorplan at lease appears fine--any quick explanation of the problem?

Here you go. Third one down. Basically, I think the big foyer needs to go.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/5265-open-house-reports-uws-92308-92508

Funny thing: I got the address wrong in the other thread too. Must be something about that building.

thanks. personally, i love a nice big foyer, and i particularly love hallways, so this layout doesn't bother me.