If you can demonstrate market movement with comps, please post here.

yournamehere, we still have a long way to go. We're somewhere around 2006 levels. We have to go to 2003 levels to reach (now falling) current market rents. You're talking MINIMUM another 35% off peak, 45% off today's prices.

I did an evaluation of some "flips" at Chelsea Stratus, and what they're trying to rent them for (and can't). Find me ONE apartment that you could rent out for more than it costs you on a monthly basis, and I'll show you ONE apartment in equilibrium.

But judging by the Chelsea Stratus and all new development, where they're expecting 25% profits (or more!) in 3 months, sellers have a lot of thinking to do.

That's cool. I can get by without a $150,000 room that doesn't do much other than make a first impression.

the first impression it makes is on me--when i walk in the door, day in and day out, a well-designed and commodious foyer is such a pleasant thing to come home to. but that's just a matter of taste.

Happyrenter: In this case, the space as a whole just felt poorly utilized. Might have been the combination of the big foyer/gallery with a huge dining room that doesn't communicate directly with the living room. The footprint says "3BR" to me, but the apartment didn't even feel like a particularly spacious six, especially with the small, old, isolated kitchen. Just a general impression.

This looks like movement to me, although it is hard to tell since this apartment clearly needs a total renovation, and the floors of the comps range from 3-17. This one, on the 8th floor, has pretty magnificent views, and it does appear to be at 2005 levels:

860 5th Avenue Apartment 8A for $2.3
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/367135-coop-860-fifth-avenue-lenox-hill-new-york

Recorded Sales:

03/28/2008 #17A $4,175,000
12/20/2005 #15A $3,600,000
08/16/2005 #10A $2,350,000
09/21/2005 #3A $2,595,000
01/04/2005 #19A $3,150,000

Here's an interesting twist on the "back to 2004/2005" theme.

Last week, 325 West End Avenue #10C sold for $1.83MM, apparently to the owners of #10D:
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/closing/774861

In June 2005, the same seller sold #11C for $2.1MM, again to the owners of the adjacent apartment, #11D:
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/closing/29417

It's possible that there were condition differences, but that can't be a big issue when both apartments were probably purchased for combination. And with the same seller, a lot of other possible differences are out of the equation.

Great catch West81st. If we are to believe that these are similar apartments and similar situations, this suggests a 2004 or even 2003 price on 10C. Wow.

So I got knocked a few weeks ago for suggesting that this represented movement. Now that it's been cut 10%, can I get some agreement?

201 West 81st 10G reduced to 999k
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/365116-coop-201-west-89th-street-upper-west-side-new-york

Recorded Sales:
06/25/2008 #11G $1,400,000 -5.1%
01/18/2007 #7G $1,225,000 +4.3%
03/10/2005 #14G $949,000

Here's another: these people are offering their apartment at a loss to what they paid in Spring '06:

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/360908-coop-333-east-55th-street-sutton-place-new-york

STREETEASY HISTORY
11/02/2005
Previously listed in StreetEasy by Corcoran for $1,099,000
02/15/2006
Corcoran listing unavailable at $1,099,000
03/16/2006
Previous sale closed for $1,165,000
10/30/2008
Listed in StreetEasy by Corcoran at $1,195,000
11/22/2008
Price decreased to $1,049,000

I am not endorsing the apartment--it has one of the worst layouts I've ever seen. But it's offered at a loss to 2006 so that's significant.

And another loss. These poor people are offering this apartment at a 10% discount to what they paid only a year ago. So much for "renting is throwing away money." Even if they got this price (which they won't) add in transaction costs and they would be out more than 20% in one year.

For those of you who like to use leveraged numbers in order to brag about the potential for gains in real estate, if we assume they put down 20%, that means they will be out 100% of their investment.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/363168-condo-865-united-nations-plaza-turtle-bay-new-york

STREETEASY HISTORY
11/19/2007
Previous sale closed for $558,600
11/06/2008
Listed in StreetEasy by Halstead Property at $569,000
11/21/2008
Price decreased to $495,000

Accelerating chops:

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/215731-coop-135-east-83rd-street-upper-east-side-new-york
STREETEASY HISTORY
04/10/2008
Listed in StreetEasy by Corcoran at $849,000
06/05/2008
Price decreased to $799,000
09/14/2008
Price decreased to $749,000
10/08/2008
Price decreased to $699,000
11/12/2008
Price decreased to $649,000
11/22/2008
Price decreased to $559,000

happyrenter, you're on a roll.

201 West 89th is arguably the most significant. It's a 3-bedroom (admittedly a small one), in a nice building and nice area on the UWS, for under $1MM.

135 East 83rd has its own thread somewhere, I think.

At $4,400 a month, it's still overpriced. This one's bigger, and has a balcony:

http://www.nybits.com/apartmentlistings/2e61d337eb12177d9285f74b9ef28427.html

happyrenter & other contributors - just wanted to thank you for keeping this thread going!

"just wanted to thank you for keeping this thread going!"

It's getting easier by the day. :0

Yes, love this thread. Thank you all for your work. Yes, Steve, getting easier by the day, oy vey y mios dios.

Wow.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/91063-coop-150-central-park-south-central-park-south-new-york

After nearly 2 years on market these sellers look to be getting serious, cutting to 899k:

STREETEASY HISTORY
06/07/2007
Listed in StreetEasy by Elliman at $1,600,000
10/28/2007
Price decreased to $1,495,000
05/04/2008
Price decreased to $1,295,000
09/25/2008
Price decreased to $1,055,000
11/24/2008
Price decreased to $899,000

But look at these comps:

04/10/2008 #1206 $1,525,000
08/29/2007 #1406 $1,475,000

Not all the listings in this line are necessarily identical, so I only included the comps I could confirm have the same layout and similar (closed-in) views. The midtown market must be in collapse--so much for Europeans saving us by buying pied-a-terres.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/151166-coop-132-east-72nd-street-lenox-hill-new-york

31% drop:
11/03/2007 Listed in StreetEasy by Brown Harris Stevens at $2,175,000
01/24/2008 Price decreased to $1,970,000
08/08/2008 Price decreased to $1,750,000
11/20/2008 Price decreased to $1,500,000

7 rooms, 3 beds, 3 baths but Maintenance is $4,656

Dwell,

I think that apartment is being marketed ineffectively. If they are getting people in there who expect a 7 room apartment they are leaving sorely disappointed. Rooms with ceiling heights under 6" are not rooms. They should sell the apartment as what it is: 4.5 rooms with a huge, strange storage area. It still might be a hard sell, but at least they would attract the people with reasonable expectations for what the space actually is.

This looks like pretty clear movement to me. Any thoughts west81st, this is sort of your area:
315 west 106th 9B
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/300933-315-west-106th-street-manhattan-valley-new-york

STREETEASY HISTORY
06/16/2008
Listed in StreetEasy by Fenwick Keats Goodstein at $2,600,000
07/10/2008
Price decreased to $2,399,000
09/25/2008
Price decreased to $2,199,000
10/29/2008
Price decreased to $1,999,000
11/25/2008
Price decreased to $1,799,000

Recorded Sales:
10/28/2005 #14B $2,150,000

Happyrenter: Yes - looks like movement. I don't know the building, and it's hard to say much without access to the 2005 listing. Aside from possible differences in layout or condition, the 14th floor might have a view of the river over the buildings on the south side of 106th. What's fairly clear is that the FKG agent TRIED to price #9B off #14B; that over-reaching may have cost his client a lot of money.

Just re-read the listing - never mind the river-view thing re. #14B, assuming the agent for #9B isn't exaggerating the view from the ninth floor.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/357797-condo-1641-third-avenue-yorkville-new-york

08/15/2005 Previous sale closed for $830,000
01/29/2008 Previous sale closed for $1,225,000
10/15/2008 Listed in StreetEasy by Corcoran at $1,025,000
10/31/2008 Price decreased to $925,000
11/25/2008 Price decreased to $899,000
$325k non tax deductible loss so far.

But brodie, didn't you know that renting is throwing your money away?

That's painful.

For some reason the comp prices don't show up for 111 Central Park North, but given the size of this cut (from the developer i believe--not a flip) it's safe to assume they would be pretty brutal:

111 Central Park North 3B
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/61257-condo-111-central-park-north-central-harlem-new-york

STREETEASY HISTORY
01/08/2007
Listed in StreetEasy by Halstead Property at $1,936,000
01/18/2007
Price increased to $2,130,000
04/24/2007
Price increased to $2,343,000
07/13/2007
Price decreased to $2,136,000
03/26/2008
Price decreased to $1,990,000
11/26/2008
Listed in StreetEasy by Halstead Property for $1,200,000

Forget the Time Warner Center or 15 CPW or the Plaza or the San Remo or you name it: this building has the best park views in the city, bar none. they are just breathtaking. but it's still a tough location to hold its value.

The views from the north of the park are indeed nice, but I doubt 3B is going to have a great view. At that height it's not even clearing the tops of the trees.

I think #4B sold for $2MM, with a parking space.
http://a836-acris.nyc.gov/Scripts/DocSearch.dll/Detail?Doc_ID=2008073000989001

oof, west81st thanks for looking it up. that is movement, i'd say.

that seems to be so amazing that it looks like a mistake. If it's not I'm blown away. Truthfully I would never pay 1.9 for that location.

Skippy, Streeteasy has not updated the headline, but if you look down the price history you'll see the apt. has just been re-listed by a different broker for 1.2 million. Meaning, after almost 2 years hovering at around 2M and not selling, they've slashed it down 40% on one go. That's desperation in my book. And a recent comp, plus parking spot, sold for 2MM.

maybe not 1.9, but it starts getting pretty sexy at 900k

make them an offer. they clearly want to get this thing off their hands.

Same deal for #5B: $2MM with a parking space.
http://a836-acris.nyc.gov/Scripts/DocSearch.dll/Detail?Doc_ID=2008072500924001

Buyer only borrowed about 40%, so at least it looks like he can afford the hit.

$2.1MM for #6B. No parking space. 20% down.
http://a836-acris.nyc.gov/Scripts/DocSearch.dll/Detail?Doc_ID=2007100300337003

6th floor and above is another class of apartments given the view differential. but the comp to 4 and 5 is pretty stunning.

By the way, the reason Streeteasy doesn't show the sale price for most of those "B" line units is that they were sold together with parking spaces. For example, #6B was sold alone, so the price shows. The others were sold with parking, so Streeteasy (correctly, I think) suppresses the price because there's no good way to allocate the amount between the two separate tax lots.

Did this one ever make it onto the boards? It's an old chop, so forgive me if I am repeating something:
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/109298-coop-1-east-end-avenue-yorkville-new-york

1 East End Ave 9A
STREETEASY HISTORY
02/09/2005
Previous sale closed for $3,045,000
09/19/2007
Listed in StreetEasy by Sotheby's at $3,495,000
12/27/2007
Price decreased to $3,395,000
05/13/2008
Price decreased to $3,200,000
09/15/2008
Price decreased to $2,800,000

Recorded Sales:
06/15/2007 #10A $3,436,277 -1.8% $3,500,000 ↓
05/24/2005 #8A $3,550,000 -
02/09/2005 #9A $3,045,000

Happyrenter: Re 132 E 72:
"If they are getting people in there who expect a 7 room apartment they are leaving sorely disappointed. Rooms with ceiling heights under 6" are not rooms. They should sell the apartment as what it is: 4.5 rooms with a huge, strange storage area"

Truth in advertising, right?

dwell: that's exactly what i mean.

40 West 77th, "B" line (full Museum views, high floors have park views):

-------Recorded Sales------------- | ---------- Previous Listings -------------
11/18/2008 #15B $5,950,000 ----- - |. $5,950,000 4 beds 4 baths 2,700 ft²
08/16/2007 . #6B $4,750,000 -0.9% |↓ $4,795,000 3 beds 3 baths
04/03/2006 #16B $4,000,000 ------- |
08/10/2005 #14B $4,500,000 ------- |
06/16/2005 . #6B $4,250,000 ------ |

Not sure the footprint on #6B exactly matched the others. Anyway, great apartments in great buildings seem to have held up fairly well - at least until early summer, when this one went to contract.

west81st, isn't the operative phrase there "at least until early summer"? there are plenty of great apartments in great buildings languishing on the market right now.

Don't you think the monthlies on 3B at 111 Central Park North are a bit high?

The apartment numbering in this building is too complicated for me to figure out the comps, and these are still apparently sales by the developer (after two years, that's not good). But take a look at these cuts today, pretty wild:

455 Central Park West

LM19
STREETEASY HISTORY
12/22/2006
Listed in StreetEasy by Corcoran at $4,880,000
02/05/2008
Price increased to $5,230,000
11/26/2008
Price decreased to $3,995,000

LM6
STREETEASY HISTORY
12/22/2006
Listed in StreetEasy by Corcoran at $5,064,500
02/21/2008
Price decreased to $4,850,000
11/26/2008
Price decreased to $3,650,000

LM17
STREETEASY HISTORY
12/22/2006
Listed in StreetEasy by Corcoran at $7,640,000
08/30/2007
Price increased to $7,990,000
02/21/2008
Price decreased to $7,750,000
11/26/2008
Price decreased to $6,350,000

Happyrenter: It's hard to comp the LM ("Landmark") units at 455 CPW because they're all unique. As these things go, I think a property like LM6, with south and east exposures, at less than $1K/square foot is an interesting option for the right person.

By the way, the prices for the Landmark units have always been highly flexible, in part because they were offered in any state of completion from raw space to fully-finished. Caveats notwithstanding, it does look like something of a clearance sale on the remaining apartments.

Full disclosure: I might be a little biased, because I nominated 455 CPW for "High End West Side Condo Most Likely to Become a White Elephant." The building is fine, but the location is going to be a problem if gentrification hits a wall.

West81st,

I never liked the building, and never liked the location. But these are major cuts--clearance sale is a bit of an overstatement, but they clearly want to move these units.

595 WEA #15B. The interesting thing here is the ABSENCE of movement, considering the dates of the sales. One caveat: The first transaction was a sponsor sale, so the buyers probably paid the taxes.

09/19/2007 Sale closed for $1,310,000
09/13/2008 Listed in StreetEasy by Halstead Property for $1,450,000
11/19/2008 Sale closed for $1,375,000
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/46148-condo-595-west-end-avenue-upper-west-side-new-york
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/348841-condo-595-west-end-avenue-upper-west-side-new-york
Condition doesn't appear to have changed much; the apartment was renovated before the first sale.

For a bear market, there isn't much blood in the streets so far.

that's an impressive price, no doubt. how did they get that closed so quickly?

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/92978-multi-162-west-120th-street-central-harlem-new-york

the price has gone up! yes, up!

I looked at this summer 2007, when it was priced at $1.125 million, only because it was occupied by some squatters, or so the broker said. He urged me to snap it up since once the squatters were out the price would be $1.25 firm. The squatters eventually left I think and he moved to the new price. Then it showed it was under contract for ever, but the price keeps jumping up and down. When I called curious as to why the increase (last time not this time) to $1.35 if it is in contract, the broker indicated that while they were in contract they will take higher offers. Now the contract pending flag seems to be gone and the price is up again
Given that this requires a gut renovation, a certificate of non-harrasment (likely a challenge given "squatters", in the current market I can't see it selling for more than $600-700k. Yet, optimism reigns.
Maybe the broker just wanted to provoke me to add it to this thread (just promoting contrarian behavior).
LOL

Another follow-up on 250 West 94th: #10H was just reduced another $100K, to $1.695MM.

The same-line comp is #4H, a low-floor estate wreck with the same footprint, which sold for $1.87MM this summer. #10H is mostly in good condition, except it needs a new kitchen and, as we discussed at the top of this page, the layout may not suit all tastes/needs. Anyway, it's down to $916/sq.ft., based on the published square footage.

Re: 250 West 94th: #10H: the dining room is almost as large as the living room, kinda strange, but a lovely apt.

West: For a bear market, there isn't much blood in the streets so far.

Yes, why are you shocked. Only some crappy 80's condos or Yorkville dreary places are cut at all. Not saying prices will surge soon, but prices for quality co-ops are more or less fairly valued right now versus rents.

"prices for quality co-ops are more or less fairly valued right now versus rents"

Sure, if you view rents = 60% of carrying costs as "fairly valued". Tell you what, happyowner, please buy a place and I'll rent it from you at 60% of your monthly costs. Deal?

farquhar, you mean to say that you should never buy an apartment that would cost you more out-of-pocket than you could rent it for?

BLASPHEMY!

Where are spunky, malraux, juiceman, vverain, eastviller, all my former adversaries now?!

Rents increase over time. In world cities like NY they increase a lot. Deal. Smart sellers will not lower prices.

And these 60% numbers etc. are your fantasy. Prices are about 18-20 times rents after co-op fees. Quite reasonable versus stock yields, or bond yields or other risk assets.

111 Central Park North #3B back to 1.9 on 12/01. Would have sold at 1.2.

"Rents increase over time"

Except when they go down.

"In world cities like NY they increase a lot."

Wow. There's some heady stuff. I'll come back with some equally insightful comments: In deflation, prices go down a lot. In recessions, people get fired a lot. When I don't sleep, I get tired a lot. When I not eat do, I want food a lot.

"Deal." - Okay, you buy an apartment and I'll rent it for 60% of your carrying costs. Far be it from happyowner to turn down an opportunity to lose money.

"And these 60% numbers etc. are your fantasy. Prices are about 18-20 times rents after co-op fees. Quite reasonable versus stock yields, or bond yields or other risk assets."

Do you have any idea what you're talking about, happyowner? Do you know what P/Es are now? Try 7-8x. Do you know what corp spreads are now? Do you know what a P/E is? Tell us what you mean by "stock yield" - do you mean dividend yield? Did you graduate from any educational institution, or did your pappy set you down on his lap one day and say "my child, happyowner, the key to life is to have a complete lack of understanding of finance and to overpay for overpriced assets".

I rent an apartment for 5,500 a close comp for which is on the market for 1.9 million. And my landlady has agreed to lower my rent 5% next year to keep me in the apartment. Let's at least get the real facts out there.

And just to get us back onto the actual topic of this thread, we have movement at the Butterfield House--where there are currently 5 apartments languishing on the market in one of the best buildings in the city.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/356936-coop-37-w-12th-st-greenwich-village-new-york

9D
STREETEASY HISTORY
10/10/2008
Listed in StreetEasy by Sotheby's at $2,200,000
12/01/2008
Price decreased to $1,850,000

Recorded Sales:
05/30/2008 #7D $2,200,000
06/28/2007 #6D $1,700,000 (6D was a complete wreck)

Happyrenter - if those numbers are correct, that would imply at best mortgage of $8500 per month, plus foregone interest on down payment of about $600, plus maintenance (I'm guessing) of $2,000 - that gets you to total monthly charges of $11,100. In other words, I would bet the rent is closer to 50% of the monthlies.

Happyowner - changed my mind. I'll rent from you for 50% of your monthlies. Still a deal, right?

Correct. Or you can look at it this way: rent is 5500, subtract 1700 (in this case) for CC and you get 3800/month. multiply by 12 and you get $45,600. that would give you a grand yield of 2.4% on your investment of $1.9 million, even before my rent decreases, and even before real estate taxes go up. if you like that deal, i have a bridge you might be interested in.

Wow--THIS is movement:

SALES LISTINGS FOR THIS BUILDING
17 West 71st Street #7D 2 beds 1,200 ft $1,180,000

17 West 71st Street #3D 3 beds $999,000

Recorded Sales
09/24/2008 #2D $1,140,000 -8.8% $1,250,000

That second floor apartment is a total cave--the third floor only very very slightly less so, but still. Wow.

Damn--it's going to be a brutal holiday season!

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/368320-coop-20-sutton-place-south-sutton-place-new-york

20 Sutton Place 5C--a nice-sized classic 6
12/02/2008
Listed in StreetEasy by Corcoran at $1,250,000

Recorded Sales
03/31/2008 #7C $1,600,000
02/28/2007 #9C $1,565,000 -2.2%
09/29/2005 #12C $1,800,000
12/15/2004 #15-C $1,350,000

Rents go up a lot? They also go down a lot. NY is a volatile market. In '90-91 when housing had its last crash in the country the numbers were something like a 10% drop. In NY they were 30-40%. Rents dropped too, probably 20-40% depending on the properties. There were places where rent-stabilized apartments were renting for slightly higher than market and it was the wise who bore it knowing that when things went back up they should benefit. Studios and 1BR rents dropped the most, 30-50%. (My brother rented a 1BR, walk-up, CPW and 83rd, working fireplace in '90 for $950. Previous rent was $1600 and had been sitting empty for several months. Didn't get over 1600 until '99 or 2000.)

I think there was a separate thread for this one (176 Broadway), but I can't find it. Posters were wide-eyed at the maintenance. But I guess the price got to be right, so it sold.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/173780-coop-176-broadway-financial-district-new-york

This one's asking less than it was bought for in 2005:

234 West 16th Street #4C

07/20/2005 Previous sale closed for $485,000
08/12/2008 Listed in StreetEasy by Brown Harris Stevens at $498,000
10/02/2008 Price decreased to $475,000

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/339721-coop-234-west-16th-street-chelsea-new-york

Sure didn't see this one coming:
320 Central Park West (Ardsley) #14G
StreetEasy History
05/10/2008 Listed in StreetEasy by Corcoran at $2,995,000
07/29/2008 Price decreased to $2,595,000
12/02/2008 Price decreased to $1,995,000
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/233174-coop-320-central-park-west-upper-west-side-new-york

It's a tough apartment to comp, because of the outdoor space - two big terraces facing north and south. The closest prior sale is definitely #14H, closed by the same agent in May for $3.225MM, shortly after #14G went on the market. I think #14G is a bit bigger on the inside, but the massive terrace on #14H wraps all the way around, north-west-south, with fairly open views to the west. Neither apartment faces the park directly; the north terrace on #14G probably gets the best side view. I think both apartments need(ed) updating.

$2.995MM was ambitious for #14G, but it wasn't insane as a starting price, considering what #14H got. The $600K cut today is fairly stunning.

Yup, if 14H owners have 2m to spare (they obviously passed the board, no problem), I'd put the money in getting the neighboring unit - that combo G+H, I would NEVER leave NYC with that apt.

nyc10023: Since the listing is with the same broker, I think it's safe to assume they were approached some time ago... unless Carol O'Connor is a complete meathead. (I hope somebody gets the reference.)

Gotta love 'All in the Family'.

Lots of movement in the East Village, I've noticed recently. tenemental, where are you?

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/192850-coop-226-east-2nd-street-east-village-new-york
02/27/2006 Previous sale closed for $555,000
03/13/2008 Listed in StreetEasy by Corcoran at $839,000
05/07/2008 Price decreased to $799,000
09/05/2008 Price decreased to $789,000
09/17/2008 Price decreased to $749,000
10/22/2008 Price decreased to $675,000

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/353287-coop-87-east-2nd-street-east-village-new-york
10/01/2008 Listed in StreetEasy by Citi-Habitats at $1,275,000
11/08/2008 Price decreased to $1,175,000
11/20/2008 Price decreased to $1,000,000

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/365905-coop-205-east-10th-street-east-village-new-york
No decreases here as of yet, but note that it is priced relatively reasonably from the outset. I know some people here will rail about "still needs to come down x%" but that's not the point here.

bjw, I'm 5 posts up! I thought of you recently when I saw that unit at 203 Spring that you had mentioned once, asking $649k for the longest time - two brokers, I think. You suggested they'd be negotiable and you were right. It's now a FSBO in the Times at $499k.

West81st, that Ardsley cut is wild. Quite frankly, compared to what's on the market right now that price would not be out of line even if the apartment had no terrace whatsoever. It is a perfectly nice, largish Classic 6 in a truly fabulous building, although I am not overly enamored of CPW in the 90s (just a personal preference). I'd want to see those terraces--are they wide enough to be really functional?

I actually think that the original asking price was more or less reasonable for the peak of the market--prewar classic sixes with significant terraces are not exactly dime-a-dozen.

"Carol O'Connor" = "Carrol O'Connor."

He was a guy.

Not that I want to live there under any circumstances, but lots of good comps over on Sutton Place today. Here's another:

2 Sutton Place 15F
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/172968-coop-2-sutton-place-south-sutton-place-new-york
STREETEASY HISTORY
01/25/2008
Listed in StreetEasy by Elliman at $1,650,000
04/04/2008
Price decreased to $1,500,000
09/23/2008
Price decreased to $1,325,000
12/02/2008
Price decreased to $1,275,000

Recorded Sales:
04/09/2008 #14F $1,400,000 -

And, we have 2005 pricing on West End Avenue:

760 West End 14D
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/307255-coop-760-west-end-avenue-upper-west-side-new-york

STREETEASY HISTORY
06/27/2005
Previous sale closed for $970,000
06/20/2008
Listed in StreetEasy by Elliman at $1,150,000
09/02/2008
Price decreased to $1,125,000
09/25/2008
Price decreased to $1,095,000
10/22/2008
Price decreased to $1,045,000
12/02/2008
Price decreased to $999,000

kas242: Bless you.

stevejhx: Archie was a GUY? Gee, that explains a lot. Thanks for clearing that up. (Carol O'Connor is the Corcoran agent on those listings. Get it?)

Happyrenter: The terraces on that Ardsley apartment are narrow, but I think they're habitable. And I always prefer terraces to balconies.

yeah, a balcony is not my thing either, just not into paying up for a glorified planting terrace. although, as i said, in this case you can hardly call it paying up any more.

What say you re: the latest cut at 760 WEA? Do you know this unit?

Happyrenter: Haven't seen it. The way I figure it, when apartments like that started selling for a million dollars a few years ago, we all said, "What the Hell???" Now they're crossing the $1MM line in the other direction, which is sort of a relief for anybody who doesn't own one.

West81st, don't worry, even the younger Streeteasy junkies here got the reference (at least those of us that grew up on Nick at Nite and the like)!

tenemental, sorry, don't know how I missed you up there. Appreciate the follow-up on 203 Spring! I liked the place but thought it was overpriced - great location for a young, first-time buyer though, and I think the price it eventually goes for will reflect that. It's getting close though, I think. I assume you're still holding tight in the EV? If prices really come down, would you even start looking at 2BRs?

i'm with you west81st. take a look at this--a decent-sized classic six on a prime west end block for 15% below a 2006 comp. it's a sponsor sale and needs a total renovation, which makes the comparison complicated, but a few years ago there were no classic sixes in ANY condition at this price:

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/368360-coop-522-west-end-avenue-upper-west-side-new-york
522 West End 6A
STREETEASY HISTORY
12/02/2008
Listed in StreetEasy by Elliman at $1,349,000

Recorded Sales:
06/05/2006 #4A $1,542,052 -

happyrenter: There's a fair amount of inventory around 86th Street. Between the construction at 535 WEA and the heavy months at the church soup kitchen, I'm not sure a fixer-upper at 522 is going to be that easy to sell.

Do you think the apartment at the Ardsley (320 CPW ) is going to go into a bidding war? That may have been why they cut the price so drastically, hoping to spur a bidding war. Any thoughts?

Hi, EAO. Tempted? I don't know about a bidding war. My general hunch is that in this environment, most buyers faced with that prospect would walk away figuring they can get something just as good tomorrow. But there's no way to predict what might happen with a specific property.

Here's another one that is now on the market for less than it sold in 2005, and this one is on Park Ave! (granted it's not prime Park, nor is the apartment especially nice).

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/232158-coop-67-park-avenue-murray-hill-new-york?email=true

05/19/2005 Previous sale closed for $481,000
05/08/2008 Listed in StreetEasy by Corcoran at $495,000
09/09/2008 Price decreased to $489,000
11/12/2008 Price decreased to $479,000
11/12/2008 Price decreased to $477,000
12/02/2008 Price decreased to $465,000

Steve said:

>> Where are spunky, malraux, juiceman, vverain, eastviller, all my former adversaries now?!

I think we can give spunky credit for having dropped off the board the earliest -- a sort of tacit admission that he was wrong (and stridently so) in his certitude that NYC real estate was beyond the reach of a slowdown.

Were the situation reversed, and proved Steve wrong, the bulls would have been merciless on the bears. I think the bears overall have shown admirable restraint. And why not? This is one case where it's really sad to be so right, and where one has to ponder yet again how so many otherwise rational, analytical people justify the worthiness of price spikes that turn out instead to be just bubbles.

West81st, yes, I am very tempted. The apartment at the Ardsley is by far ( without actually seeing it ) the best that I have seen in it's class. Like everyone else, we have been sitting on the sidelines waiting to jump back in having sold our apartment almost a year ago and anxious to settle into a new place. From the layout, location, terraces & fireplace, this place seems pretty exceptional. Having said that, we would still want to get it at a discount to the asking price.. just not sure if that is realistic.

EAO,

This is the first cut to get my attention as well--great apartment, great building, 3 bedrooms, terraces, prewar, etc. I'm still holding out for the Village, but you don't really find Classic Sixes in abundance down here. Clearly they really want to sell that apartment, heading into the worst selling season of what is already a horrendous bear market. I would bid aggressively. I think they would take almost any bid seriously; that is, they will respond to basically any bid. Doesn't mean you will get the response you want, or the price you want, but you will get a counter offer--IMHO.

Thanks for your advice happyrenter. I have actually dealt with this broker before. She is very good and usually gets top dollar for her clients. We would also love to live downtown, but because we have a child the UWS/UES is more ideal ( schools ).

She is a good broker--which means she may understand that to get "top dollar" in this market may mean accepting what appears to be a low price. This is a special apartment, those terraces make it quite unusual. It is the sort of apartment that will sell instantly at the right price, you know?

I saw the Ardsley aprt--needs a complete redo--the terraces are weird in that one of them is basically attached to the adjoining apartment--no privacy for you on that terrace at all. 14H, which I also saw, was much more dramatic with the most fantastic outdoor space I ever saw--this apartment pales in comparison, inside and out, but of course now the price reflects it.

dmf13, from the layout, doesn't look like there are any bathrooms that are not "en-suite." I know this is pretty typical in older buildings, but did it look like there would be any issues installing/reconfiguring a more general purpose bathroom? I imagine the board is fairly strict at the Ardsley, which would certainly affect any plans there as well.

Look, there may be problems with the apartment; I certainly don't doubt it, and I'm not running out to live at 92 and CPW. But come on people, that is quite a stunning cut.

Here's some slight movement over on Park in midtown on what looks like a pretty fantastic apartment:

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/180301-coop-417-park-avenue-midtown-new-york
STREETEASY HISTORY
02/07/2008
Listed in StreetEasy by Elliman at $4,350,000
11/20/2008
Price decreased to $3,995,000

Recorded Sales:
09/12/2007 #10E $4,125,000 -2.9%

Again, not a stunning movement relative to comps by any means, but I really love this apartment--perfect layout for a 7, IMHO, and looks like a super, gentle renovation.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/300950-coop-334-west-86th-street-upper-west-side-new-york
334 West 86th 7A
STREETEASY HISTORY
06/16/2008
Listed in StreetEasy by Corcoran at $2,595,000
08/30/2008
Price decreased to $2,549,000
09/28/2008
Price decreased to $2,499,000
11/20/2008
Price decreased to $2,395,000
12/03/2008
Price decreased to $2,349,000

09/06/2007 #6A $2,416,000 +0.7%

And for those of you insufficiently impressed with the pricing at the Ardsley, here is what you could buy instead:

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/329748-condo-340-west-86th-street-upper-west-side-new-york

Wow, look at these comps. I know, the apartment needs to be gutted. And, I know, the living/dining rooms look across a narrow alley. But these comps are brutal:

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/237206-215-w-98-st-upper-west-side-new-york

215 West 98th 11A
05/16/2008
Listed in StreetEasy by TREGNY at $2,395,000
06/17/2008
Price decreased to $2,295,000
10/24/2008
Price decreased to $2,100,000
11/06/2008
Price decreased to $1,900,000
12/03/2008
Price decreased to $1,595,000

Recorded Sales:
12/06/2007 #2B $1,940,000 -2.8% $1,995,000 ↓ Sold 3 beds 2 baths
8/15/2007 #6B $2,260,000 -1.5% $2,295,000 ↓ 3 beds 2 baths 2,100 ft²

What a morning. In basically the most perfect possible location in NYC, we now have an apartment below its sale price of 2005. I saw this apartment in 2005. It's very small, but very, very lovely. And honestly, with that very low maintenance, this is getting at least in the realm of the monthly cost of an equivalent rental in that location (the 3rd floor unit rented for 5000/month, with no outdoor space).
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/103538-coop-51-charles-street-west-village-new-york

51 Charles Street #4:

STREETEASY HISTORY
11/29/2005
Previous sale closed for $1,352,000
09/04/2007
Listed in StreetEasy by Corcoran at $1,425,000
09/17/2008
Price increased to $1,499,000
10/02/2008
Price decreased to $1,439,000
10/17/2008
Price decreased to $1,395,000
12/03/2008
Price decreased to $1,350,000

happyrenter: I wrote up the one at 334 West 86th back in June. Personally, I think the cuts have been too slow, but time will tell. Here's the report. Note the condition of the condition, "name" appliances notwithstanding.

334 West 86th Street, #7A
3 beds 2 baths Co-op, Upper West Side
$2,595,000 Maint.$1790
Traffic: Light

Newly-listed classic seven with a layout that truly would convert to a 4BR rather well, with all four bedrooms together in a wing and a reasonable dining area left after carving out the extra BR. The three existing BRs are reasonably sized; the master is a bit narrow, but one of the others is ample for two kids of the same gender. The first two BRs and the slightly narrow living room face north across 86th Street. The view is a nursing home (or, if you prefer, an "assisted living facility"); at this elevation, though, it looks like just another UWS co-op. The third BR has open views to the south and east. The kitchen is quite functional but also quite dated, with high-end Euro appliances from the 80's and - I think - poured concrete counters and sink. It's quaintly retro until you look closely and see that eveything is starting to crack or peel.

The starting price here seems to be in the ballpark - maybe 5-10% high in a slow market. 6A sold for $2.416MM last year, and was probably in better condition.

"Condition of the kitchen", that is.