If you can demonstrate market movement with comps, please post here.

I don't even know what to make of this one. West81st, perhaps you can help me out. is this a 2004 price point?

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/364276-coop-755-west-end-avenue-upper-west-side-new-york

755 West End 5C
STREETEASY HISTORY
03/14/2008
Previously listed in StreetEasy by Elliman for $1,595,000
09/04/2008
Elliman listing temporarily off-market at $1,350,000
11/07/2008
Listed in StreetEasy by Corcoran at $1,395,000
12/03/2008
Price decreased to $1,200,000

Recorded Sales:

7/09/2007 #2C $1,710,000 +0.9% $1,695,000
02/21/2007 #16C $1,600,000
05/17/2005 #12C $1,569,750

Over on East 96th:
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/232050-coop-49-east-96th-street-carnegie-hill-new-york

49 East 96th 10C
STREETEASY HISTORY
05/07/2008
Listed in StreetEasy by Corcoran at $1,250,000
09/04/2008
Price decreased to $1,195,000
10/02/2008
Price decreased to $1,075,000
12/03/2008
Price decreased to $995,000

Recorded Sales
07/24/2007 #11C $1,170,000 -4.5% $1,225,000

West81st,

14' is a narrow living room? Your standards are even higher than mine! The old kitchen is a problem, I think, at that price.

Unless I am missing something, this pricing is getting aggressive. And you're not going to find a better location on the UWS.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/189468-coop-6-west-77th-street-upper-west-side-new-york
STREETEASY HISTORY
03/04/2008
Listed in StreetEasy by Corcoran at $875,000
09/17/2008
Price decreased to $849,000
10/30/2008
Price decreased to $799,000
12/01/2008
Price decreased to $749,000

Recorded Sales
04/07/2006 #10D $800,000
09/01/2004 #7D $705,000

It might be time to retire this thread. I almost feel like we're rubbing it in.

I saw 755 WEA #5C four months ago. I'm a little embarrassed to admit I called it a "Best Buy" at $1.35MM. IMO, it's a perfectly reasonable classic six. Nice building too. Granted, the layout of the dining/kitchen/maid's wing isn't ideal, the apartment doesn't get a lot of light, and it's a bit close to 96th for most tastes; but it's not the sort of listing I would have expected to become the canary in the bear-market coal mine. I suspect this apartment has been a fall-back option for a number of people who bought elsewhere or decided not to buy at all. Is $1.2MM a 2004 price? Probably. Not sure what part of 2004, which makes a big difference. That was a ridiculous year.

Yeah, I am going to stop posting every comp I come across, it is getting a bit silly you are right :). Save it for the really good ones.

Even in 2004 I don't think it was easy to find a decent, albeit low-end, Classic 6 for $1.2. I don't think any apartment is immune from the severity of this bear market right now.

happyrenter, the 1BR on 77th attracted me from the price and stellar location, but wow does that place need work! And the maintenance is insane for a place that small - you're looking at almost $2.25 psf!

bj, I didnt realize it needed so much work, that certainly changes the equation. Yes, maintenance is quite high.

Capitulation at the Gramont, perhaps? 215 West 98th #11B (classic seven, 2100 sq.ft., looks nice in the pics but really needs everything):
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/237206-215-w-98-st-upper-west-side-new-york
StreetEasy History
05/16/2008 Listed in StreetEasy by TREGNY at $2,395,000
06/17/2008 Price decreased to $2,295,000
10/24/2008 Price decreased to $2,100,000
11/06/2008 Price decreased to $1,900,000
12/03/2008 Price decreased to $1,595,000
"Here Is Why You Should Buy This Apartment:
- It is 20% Below Market Value
- You Are Paying Less Than $900 Per Square Foot
- You Will Get Approximately 2100 Square Feet To Design Your Own Home
- The Seller Is Open To You Naming Your Own Price
- Your Friends Will Be Envious That You Got The Best Deal In Town"

Naming your own price? Hmmm... BTW, there's a similar sponsor unit in contract through Heilman, but I don't know the price or whether the buyer took the sponsor's reno package. See http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/95331-coop-215-west-98-upper-west-side-new-york

Here's my write-up on #11B from June:
215 W 98th Street, #11B
%u2193 $2,295,000 Maint. $2273.68 TD 45%
3 beds 2.5 baths Co-op , Upper West Side
Traffic: Very light

This estate classic seven in the Gramont is a wreck in need of gut renovation - though it does, incongruously, feature granite countertops. There's a lot of space to work with. At this point, far too much of that space is consumed by a pointlessly grand entrance gallery. That's easy enough to fix by knocking out walls, and there's probably a way to level off the bizarre step-up bathrooms and make use of the grim maid's room. What can't be fixed is the brick-wall view from the living and dining rooms. It might be possible to flip the whole apartment around, but I'm not sure it's worth the trouble.

Comps suggest that the price here is still too high if the place needs as much work as I think it does. #6B sold - renovated and at the top of the market - for $2.26MM. #10B, which appears to have been in much better condition too, closed in March for @2.38MM.

West81st,

Is that very last paragraph from your write-up, or is that current commentary?

hr: It's from the original report. Since #11B is now effectively priced at "best offer", it can't really be overpriced. I do think they'll take less than $1.6MM. That apartment will be expensive to fix, and even when it's done, the view will still be 98th Street and an airshaft.

West 81st and happyrenter, I hope you're not serious about going easy on this thread. The rhetoric and personal attacks of other threads (and, sadly, this one on rare occasion) I won't miss, but the facts should be out there. These are points that will help people with their decision making and even negotiations. Not to overstate it, but IMO this is the most important thread on the board.

With that, I’ll mention another reduced line at the A Building, 425 E. 13th St. I referenced it on the Yves Chelsea thread – same developer - but didn’t give specifics. 6C’s listing got detached from its sale and is mistakenly still in the In Contract section as well as the Recorded Sales below:

09/03/2008 #6C $1,175,000

04/18/2008 #7C $1,300,000
01/22/2008 #5C $1,280,000
03/19/2008 #4C $1,270,000
01/17/2008 #3C $1,260,000

1C and 2C are different layouts. 6C, obviously, was originally expected to fetch $1,290,000, so while not as dramatic as the E line’s -19%, still a 9% drop in 4.5 months.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/building/425-east-13-street-new_york

bjw, a 2BR is a distinct possibility, thanks for asking.

West81st,

Can you provide a little more intelligence on the Gramont? Is it a nice building? Whenever something is priced at "name your price" it catches my attention. I'm trying to figure out if there is SOME price at which I wouldn't mind a living room with a view of a brick wall. I've been playing around with that floor plan and I just don't see how you can really flip the apartment.

re: >> What can't be fixed is the brick-wall view from the living and dining rooms. It might be possible to flip the whole apartment around, but I'm not sure it's worth the trouble.

This kind of thing makes me absolutely crazy. I know that there's people who can overlook negatives for the sake of getting many other things they want in an apartment, but I think it's really a sign of something being very wrong in a market's pricing when should-be deal-breakers (like looking out on a brick wall!) get just massaged out of the equation. In my mind, something like that should give a place - what? - a 40% or 50% discount to a place with a reasonable view, but somehow people let themselves get talked into believing something like, "oh, it's close to the subway, so it's still a plum property." IT'S A BRICK WALL, FOR CRYING OUT LOUD! You know, like where you put people who have committed a crime! I don't care how many square feet it has, you can't reduce a flaw like that into an equation of $/per square foot!

And, yet, that's just what your online databases encourage you to do. Just depressing.

happyrenter: Well, the 11th floor has bit of history. Ah, for the good old days on the UWS...

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9B0DE1DD153BF937A15755C0A964948260

I don't know the building very well. I think it's pretty - much nicer than Sabrina, for example - , but I'm a sucker for faded beauty. The common areas are rather dingy. Also, I don't mind recessed entries on side streets. A lot of people find them creepy. Actually, a lot of people find anything east of Broadway in the upper 90s fairly creepy, and they may have a point, especially if gentrification hits a wall.

hrdnitlr,

very amusing, and very true. the apartment looks at a brick wall and there ain't a thing you can do about it.

OK, I know I SAID I would stop posting so many on here...but the UWS 3 bedrooms are coming fast and furious. This one just got re-listed
895 West End 10B
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/368563-coop-895-west-end-avenue-manhattan-valley-new-york

STREETEASY HISTORY
10/18/2007
Listed in StreetEasy by Wohlfarth at $2,200,000
02/16/2008
Price increased to $2,250,000
04/10/2008
Price decreased to $2,050,000
05/08/2008
Price decreased to $1,950,000
07/08/2008
Price decreased to $1,899,000
09/18/2008
Price decreased to $1,799,000
12/03/2008
Wohlfarth listing no longer available
12/03/2008
Listed in StreetEasy by Wohlfarth at $1,799,000

Recorded Sales:
04/18/2007 #5B $2,150,000 -2.0% $2,195,000
08/19/2004 #9B $1,825,000

But with 755 West End on the block for 1.2, I don't think this is going anywhere right now.

Some of these latest reductions are truly crash-worthy.

50 Riverside Dr. #4CD
StreetEasy History
03/01/2008 Listed in StreetEasy by Brown Harris Stevens at $6,000,000
04/10/2008 Price decreased to $5,750,000
06/12/2008 Price decreased to $4,995,000
12/03/2008 per BHS, decreased to $3,650,000 (see http://www.bhsusa.com/detail.aspx?id=784779)

Easy combination, though the layout would work best if the coop would sell you the little piece of hallway between the two entrances. The maintenance, low floor and lack of river view are all big minuses. Still, it's a huge space, probably for about what the two apartments would have sold for separately three years ago. The original price was absurd. Now it's very competitive.

I won't do the math on the comps here, because it's a combination, but the prior sales are here (note that they are mostly higher floors, and the "A" and "B" lines have the views): http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/building/50-riverside-drive-manhattan

BTW, kudos to the agent for keeping the sellers united (assuming they're not related). Usually, with a cut this deep, one seller will balk and drop out.

glad you guys were just kidding...

That's an incredible cut--and it is going to be a magnificent apartment. But I disagree with you that the original ask was really absurd. Combined, that apartment is the equivalent of something in 300 West End, I'd say, if not maybe even a bit nicer. It's a truly excellent building, perfect location, combines easily, and it appears that the apartments are in good shape. Basically, you knock down a few walls, replace one of the kitchens with a bathroom and closets, and you have just a killer apartment.

As for comps, going back to 2004 you have 6D selling for 1.975. The D line is the somewhat better apartment, so without the combination premium (such as it is) we'd be looking at 2004 prices on this. Given that there is a premium for the combination possibility--probably significant--I'd say we're looking at a 2003 or even 2002 price on this.

I have to say the price cut on this is so stunning I wonder if it is a typo.

That combo has been on the market forever. I believe one of the brokers is the owner (they intermittently say broker-owner on the ads). I have been watching this one for a long time. A river-view potential combination sold at 300 Riverside (smaller, more awkward) sold easily in '06 for close to 3.5m.

And 300 Riverside is, I think we can all agree, not comparable to 50 Riverside. They have clearly gotten serious about selling it, I just wonder how spooked they are.

"Not to overstate it, but IMO this is the most important thread on the board."
Agreed. Love this thread & think it's very important info. My Thanks to everyone who contributes here.

Hello NYC, about 2 years ago, November 2006 my wife and I almost pulled the trigger on a $2.4MM grand millennium apartment (H unit - flex 3) on the 11th floor after the birth of our second child. We were renting at the 145 W. 67th Street (a flex 3 for $4.7K/month). Our housing cost would have been 40 to 50% of our income.. (the GMill). I put my foot down as I have been a RE bear for 5 years and couldn't justify it on any financial basis. Left for HI, where I rented a 3 bedroom new condo with 2 car garage for $3.8K/month. The owner wanted me to buy his unit for $900K. Just this past month I re-negotiated my rent due to a comp listing at $3K/month. The owner just wants out at his in cost of $850K now.... ummm I love seeing how the RE market in NYC is starting to "capitulate" and I love this thread, as it is the most insightful. However, I will point out that a lot of writers believe a 2002 level price is somehow the bottom? I did several RE transactions in 1998 at $300 psf to $500psf. I believe there was no "rational" reason why prices went above a sustainable level and there is no rational reason that we won't over-shoot on the way down. Over-shoot on the upside was a result of everyone believing that RE was a no loss deal, there is no reason that the mentality that RE is the worst investment ever won't take hold. People may actually pay a premium to rent versus own and be stuck with an illiquid asset. Even rental comps may not be valid in 4 years if RE in NYC continues down :)

How do I change my posting ID?

50 Central Park West #2A
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/184210-coop-50-central-park-west-lincoln-square-new-york
StreetEasy History
02/20/2008 Listed in StreetEasy by Brown Harris Stevens at $5,500,000
09/29/2008 Price decreased to $4,950,000
11/12/2008 Price decreased to $4,500,000
12/02/2008 Price decreased to $3,995,000

The "A" and "D" units appear to have been combined into #2A. The same seems true of the comps on the third and fourth floors:
--------Recorded Sales----------|--------Previous Listings----------
CURRENT ...... #2A ............................... |↓$3,995,000 3 beds
02/08/2006 #3A . $4,600,000 ......... |(apparently listed for $5.5MM, but not linked)
06/10/2005 #4AD $3,995,000 ......... |
05/16/2005 #2AD $3,395,000 ......... |

Also of note, #2B next door sold for a shocking $5.995MM this summer. I think it's pretty similar to #2A with regard to park frontage and square foootage. The renovation in #2B might be a bit more lavish, but they both look beautiful. The floorplans initially suggest that #2B has a nicer secondary exposure (north to the street rather than south to the inner court)... until you realize that the street is 65th, with awful traffic going into the park. I must be missing something here.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/building/50-central-park-west-manhattan

BTW, re. 50 CPW: The listing that I think is for the Feb.2006 comp, #3A, states: "Much of the Apt is in Estate condition..." Asking $5.5MM; apprently sold for $4.6MM.

To be precise: 3A sold for 4.6m in March 2006; 4AD (I remember the listing, I think it's the same layout) sold for 3.995m in June '05.

And of course, 2A itself traded as 2AD in May '05 for 3.395m. So the sellers having bought in '05 are losing money on this, given transaction costs.

I find all of these units problematic. 2nd floor on 65th street just does not seem pleasant to me. I have a particular bias against 2nd floor units in tall buildings, so it's hard for me to comment on the comps, but until it gets below its 2006 price I won't get excited.

Do you know if the combination/renovation was done before or after the 2005 sale?

And the owners of 3A are very high-profile (in a bad way).

how are they high profile?

Typo - meant the owners of 2A. Remember the SAC trader who was accused of forcing a junior trader to eat female hormones :)

nyc10023: Thanks for the clarification on 50 RSD. I had missed the connection to Rosenthal.

As for 50 CPW, EEEEEEEEWWWWWWWWW. http://www.cnbc.com/id/21224443

Actually, the real estate side of Dr. Jiang's story is pretty interesting. He celebrated his very successful 2006 by purchasing apartment #73 at the Dakota for $16.5MM: http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/closing/102870

Why wasn't the spread he bought in 2005 at 50 CPW good enough anymore? I guess when a man has just made $100MM, he wants to buy himself something nice.

And even if his new hedge fund is facing a difficult market, things could certainly be worse: he could have stayed at Lehman, where he worked before his controversial and lucrative stint at SAC.

re: 50 CPW...4AD are nice neighbors

She's just an ordinary Working Girl (though she should lay off the collagen). He's one cool cat. And if crime picks up on the West Side, you could do worse than having Zorro two floors up.

One thing to remember about fancy co-ops like 50CPW and even 50RSD is that the apartments may seem like good deals on a per sqft basis, but to actually get pass the board you need to be worth WAY more. So, say the apt is "only" 3m, you need to be worth at least 9m liquid, after closing and impeccable references.

"say the apt is "only" 3m, you need to be worth at least 9m liquid, after closing and impeccable references"

Yup, that's the kicker.

The "kicker" is not getting past the board, guys. I hate to break it to you, but for most people the "kicker" is having enough $$ to justify making such a purchase. Most boards--even the boards in fancy buildings--have financial requirements that are quite rational and reasonable given the value of the underlying assets.

For me, prob is post closing "liquid" assets. Not saying it's irrational, just saying that the liquid part is a prob for me

let me put it another way: if you can't pass the financial requirements for a building, chances are you should not buy an apartment that expensive.

1150 Park Avanue #3A
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/80440-coop-1150-park-avenue-carnegie-hill-new-york
StreetEasy History
03/30/2007 Listed in StreetEasy by Sotheby's at $2,750,000
05/07/2007 Price decreased to $2,600,000
05/08/2007 Price increased to $2,750,000
05/09/2007 Price decreased to $2,600,000
07/17/2007 Price decreased to $2,500,000
04/10/2008 Price decreased to $2,375,000
06/09/2008 Price decreased to $2,225,000
12/02/2008 Price decreased to $1,999,000
--------Recorded Sales----------|--------Previous Listings----------
CURRENT ...... #3A ............................... |↓$1,999,000 2 beds
07/16/2008 . #9A $2,300,000 -7.8% |↓$2,495,000 Sold 2 beds 2.5 baths 1,600 ft²
07/27/2007 #16A $2,200,000 -4.1% | . $2,295,000 2 beds 2.5 baths 1,640 ft²
07/09/2007 #11A $2,700,000 ......... | . $2,700,000 2 beds 2.5 baths
04/27/2006 . #2A $2,125,000 ......... |
08/16/2004 #15A $1,850,000 ......... |
07/28/2004 #14A $1,850,000 ......... |

Good example, I think, of a lavish, style-conscious renovation that cost the owners a lot of money that they will never get back. Nice kitchen, though.

My guess: bitter renters never pull the trigger and miss whatever temporary low prices might happen along.

happyowner: Duly noted. I'll keep an eye out for "Bitter Renters" in ACRIS.

happyrenter: Sorry I doubled up your posting of 215 West 98th. I missed it on the previous page.

Things are getting a bit crowded at our old friend 250 West 94th Street. You'll remember that this is the building where 10C and 10H, a Classic 5 and Classic 6, respectively, have been chasing each other down? Now add 15C into the mix, which just came on the market today 50k below 10C

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/369494-coop-250-west-94th-street-upper-west-side-new-york

STREETEASY HISTORY
12/05/2008
Listed in StreetEasy by Elliman at $1,549,000

All of this must be pretty concerning to the owners of 6C, who paid over $2 million for their place five months ago:

07/07/2008 #6-C $2,040,000 -0.5% $2,050,000 Sold 3 beds 2 baths 1,600 ft²

1000psf for a lovely, mint-condition, low-floor 4.5 room apartment in the Butterfield House, prime as prime can be Greenwich Village location. There are five units for sale at 37 West 12th right now--this is unheard of. Usually turnover is slow as molasses.

37 West 12th 3F
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/361921-coop-37-west-12th-street-greenwich-village-new-york

STREETEASY HISTORY
04/17/2008
Previously listed in StreetEasy by Corcoran for $1,995,000
11/01/2008
Corcoran listing unavailable at $1,699,000
11/04/2008
Listed in StreetEasy by Halstead Property at $1,699,000
12/05/2008
Price decreased to $1,495,000

Yeah, 6C must be tossing and turning. 2M for a 5-room w/o drop-dead views and pedigree building on UWS has always seemed crazy to me even in the go-go years. And my constant mantra - school zoning!

hey... happy, 3G is on the market too. Potential combo? I know you are looking in this area...

yeah, i've asked about that but it seems not--not sure if they aren't contiguous, or the building no longer allows combos, or what.

This looks like an outlier, but it seems that someone made almost $1M in 3 months. Is this legit or is there an error? I checked it on the rolling sales update.

200 RIVERSIDE BOULEVARD, 45B
$3,995,000 10/7/2008
$2,950,000 7/2/2008

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/166977-condo-200-riverside-boulevard-lincoln-square-new-york

There was some discussion of 320 CPW apt 14G here earlier. I saw it the other day. Basically, it is a very poorly laid out 2 bedroom with smallish rooms, terrible flow, lots of angles, the kitchen and maids room are like a victorian maze. Plus, it needs a LOT of work. As to the terraces, they are basically wide enough to go smoke a cigarette, but not wide enough to entertain. I would probably grow tomatoes there or something. i think if this apt were offered in some random building minus the terraces, I can't see it fetching more than 1 - 1.1 in it's current condition.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/233174-coop-320-central-park-west-upper-west-side-new-york

anyway, my $0.02

There was some discussion of 320 CPW apt 14G here earlier. I saw it the other day. Basically, it is a very poorly laid out 2 bedroom with smallish rooms, terrible flow, lots of angles, the kitchen and maids room are like a victorian maze. Plus, it needs a LOT of work. As to the terraces, they are basically wide enough to go smoke a cigarette, but not wide enough to entertain. I would probably grow tomatoes there or something. i think if this apt were offered in some random building minus the terraces, I can't see it fetching more than 1 - 1.1 in it's current condition.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/233174-coop-320-central-park-west-upper-west-side-new-york

anyway, my $0.02

Bender1961/10023 et/al.: Thanks for the color on 320 CPW. Looks like I got the comp wrong.

Happyrenter: If you have real interest in 215 West 98th #11B, e-mail me - West81st@gmail.com. Can't burn a source by posting the situation here.

Perhaps in reaction to 333 CPW #33 going to contract, there has been a further dramatic cut on #56:

StreetEasy History
06/19/2008 Listed in StreetEasy by Elliman at $5,200,000
07/01/2008 Price decreased to $4,875,000
09/09/2008 Price decreased to $4,200,000
12/08/2008 Price decreased to $3,495,000 (not yet reflected on StreetEasy)
see: http://www.prudentialelliman.com/Listings.aspx?ListingID=940500

Based on the current ask for #56, the decline since #36 went to contract in October 2007 is now 25%:
--------Recorded Sales----------|--------Previous Listings----------
CURRENT ..... #56 .......................... | ↓$3,495,000 4 beds 2,700 ft²
02/13/2008 #36 $4,650,000 -5.1% | ↓$4,900,000 4 beds 3 baths

No condition issues are evident; #56 is freshly renovated. And the two floors have some value too.

Perhaps #36 is a bit of an outlier. #76 closed for $3.8M in summer '07, so there may be still a ways to go down on #56.

JohnDoe: I agree that the price paid for #36 is baffling, especially since it must have no views at all - unlike #76 or even #56 (which I think barely clears the roof of Columbia Grammar). I think #106, which was on the market forever, would have been at better buy at $3.4MM even though it needed everything.

Now, here's the thing about #36: do you think anyone on the sell side hesitated to use that transaction as a comp after it sold? On the contrary: Elliman clearly used #36 as the basis for pricing #56. You can call #36 an "outlier" if you like, but at the time, the market makers tried mightily to depict insane prices like this as the market level, not as strange quirks of circumstance. So I think, rather than calling these sales outliers, we should call them peak prices, because that's what they were.

Point of clarification on #106. Went into contract very quickly (max 2 weeks), but a lot of time elapsed between signing of contract & closing, so it shows up on Streeteasy as having been on the market for a long time. I was very interested in this apartment at the time, but the seller also owned the adjacent unit and wanted to sell them together.

Thanks again, 10023. That did look strange. $3.4MM makes more sense for #106 as a January 2006 price.

I'll break my own rule by posting this one without a comp:
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/290759-condo-62-west-62nd-street-lincoln-square-new-york
StreetEasy History
06/11/2008 Listed in StreetEasy by Elliman at $2,575,000
07/22/2008 Price decreased to $2,250,000
08/20/2008 Price decreased to $1,995,000
09/29/2008 Price decreased to $1,800,000
10/08/2008 Price decreased to $1,695,000
11/20/2008 Elliman listing entered contract
11/26/2008 Sale closed for $1,520,000

Even with the low floor and the high monthlies, 900 psf for a substantial condo at 62nd and Broadway seems notable, especially since the initial ask was north of 1500. Then again, maybe Elliman just mispriced it. The halo effect from 15 CPW doesn't seem to extend across the boulevard. Anyway, estate sales seem to be the margin where pricing is being set at the moment.

west81st,

i don't think you are giving justice to 62 west 62nd. that's a big apartment in a nice building. the floor is low, but not that low, and the monthlies are not that really that high. that's a great location--a bit busy for my taste, i'd rather be in the low 70s, but certainly it is a highly coveted spot.

i think that's something of a breakthrough price.

Happyrenter: I agree that it compares very favorably to what you could get for $1.5MM a year ago. I'm just hesitant to read too much into this one because there's no solid comp with a similar footprint in the same building.

"I agree that it compares very favorably to what you could get for $1.5MM a year ago."

Yes, perhaps we've reached a tipping point.

Re: 62 West 62nd. I don't know about you guys, but I don't know how to use triangular spaces, e.g. living room. What do you do with the vertex? Is it just wasted space? The acute angle in the masters bedroom may also be wasted space.

600 West 111th, "C" line (5.5 rooms, 2BR/2BA, convertible to 3BR, major rooms face north):
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/229084-coop-600-west-111th-street-morningside-heights-new-york

--------Recorded Sales----------|--------Previous Listings----------
CURRENT ..... #14C ......................... |↓$1,250,000 3 beds
03/31/2008 #2C $1,440,000 -3.7% | . $1,495,000 Sold 2 beds 2 baths 1,450 ft²

Both apartments are nicely renovated. Obviously, the 14th floor is a big diffentiator. The latest price cut on #14C hasn't hit Streeteasy yet.

The monthlies on that 62nd street apt needed to drop to that price..the monthlies are ridiculous.....good luck with taxes going up...it needed to be 700 per sq ft to be a deal.

West81, it was the guy who could get the biggest NINJA loan that set the market on the way up, so on the way down it would be the most desperate seller... divorce, death, loss of job, NINJA reset (hate to say it, but people die and divorce all the time in NYC.... especially when money trouble hits, divorces that is).... but as on the way up, the last sale becomes the comp. In either case, the market is pretty efficient and it wasn't like $2.575MM was a random number? I hope Elliman had some basis for this, no? So there is some argument to be made we are close to 40% down with 9 innings to go... people we haven't even gotten out of the locker rooms yet :)

The real question is whether things are now better than in '98/99 when that apartment would have sold for a touch under 1m.

200 West 79th, "F" line (~1100 sq.ft., usually configured as a 2BR):
--------Recorded Sales----------|--------Previous Listings----------
CURRENT ....... #7F ......................... |↓ $939,000 2 beds 1.5 baths
CURRENT ..... #17F ......................... | . $939,000 (new listing)
10/16/2007 #15F $1,161,500 ........... | -
11/04/2005 #18F .. $960,000 ............ | -
12/02/2004 #15F .. $819,000 ............ | -
09/27/2004 #14F .. $820,000 ............ | -
09/23/2004 #16F .. $900,000 ............ | -

The old listings aren't accessible, so I won't try to draw conclusions from the prior sales, other than to note the possible bubbliness of the 2007 transaction. What's more interesting to me is the on-market pair. Both are listed with Lense, the guy I would probably hire to sell a generic, 1000 sq.ft. box on the Upper West Side. With #17F, he's cutting right to the chase, pricing it competitively against his own listing for #7F. The 2007 high-floor comp seems to be out the window altogether. Maybe there's a condition issue with #17F that will become evident when the full listing gets published.

looks like someones taking a loss here: 215 West 90th Street #7G in Upper West Side.

They also placed it for rent. Doesn't seem the rent will cover their costs.

West 81st:
600 w 111 14C at $1.250 is a deal. It's close to 1500 sf, in a lovely building and 3 real beds. It's needs a totally new kitchen, but it can easily be opened up. I sold 2C (which was in mint condition). This obviously has a much more open view facing north. This listing fits into the "where is my 3 bedroom" thread as well...

nshipley: #14C is a "deal" in relation to #2C. I'm not sure that $862 psf for an apartment on 111th and Broadway that needs a new kitchen is a bargain in any absolute sense, except relative to the nutty excesses of the last four years.

I am assuming nshipley is a broker -- recall w81 extolling her virtues once
I have looked at this apartment and others in this building, and considered an offer on this specific one.
I agree with W81 that relative to 2c which was actually renovated to a dramatically higher degree this appears to be a deal, particularly on a high floor
However, in a down market, the major remodel needed on the kitchen and possibly the bathrooms is going to draw limited interest.
will it sell at 1.25 -- possibly
will it sell below a million - definitely

West81st..."Now, here's the thing about #36: do you think anyone on the sell side hesitated to use that transaction as a comp after it sold? On the contrary: Elliman clearly used #36 as the basis for pricing #56. You can call #36 an "outlier" if you like, but at the time, the market makers tried mightily to depict insane prices like this as the market level, not as strange quirks of circumstance. So I think, rather than calling these sales outliers, we should call them peak prices, because that's what they were."

No truer words have ever been written. And as long as folks fail to grasp this concept, apartments will trade only to the extent that a buyer can be convinced of the falicy.

When sellers figure it out, prices will fall.

If I were an RE and/or bankruptcy attorney, I'd seriously look into the rules of REO and short sales because I believe there will be plenty of demand.

Our old friend 14G at 320 CPW (the Ardsley) was just listed as "unavailable). This, only 9 days after the most recent substantial chop. No indication that the apartment went into contract.

Paging East Siders:
Yes, it needs to be gut renovated. But a spacious, south-facing, 12th floor Classic 7 on Park Avenue and 77th is now asking $2.25 million. Take a look at the comps:
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/356198-coop-863-park-avenue-upper-east-side-new-york

StreetEasy History
10/08/2008
Listed in StreetEasy by Elliman at $3,000,000
11/04/2008
Price decreased to $2,500,000
12/11/2008
Price decreased to $2,250,000

Recorded Sales

05/14/2008 #2E $3,100,000 -8.8% $3,400,000 3 beds 2 baths
01/29/2008 - $3,400,000 3 beds 2 baths
06/21/2007 #5E $3,502,000 +6.3% $3,295,000 3 beds 3 baths
06/02/2004 #2E $1,825,000 -

These folks are moving toward their purchase price pretty quickly--over 30% cut today in the prime village. Asking 10% below a comp sale from 2006 on a lower floor.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/357800-condo-44-east-12th-street-greenwich-village-new-york
44 East 12th #9B
StreetEasy History

04/26/2004
Previous sale closed for $875,000
10/15/2008
Listed in StreetEasy by Corcoran at $1,325,000
12/10/2008
Price decreased to $1,000,000

Recorded Sales
02/04/2008 #8B $1,295,000
05/24/2006 #7B $1,100,000
04/26/2004 #9B $875,000

10 West 66th #5D (5.5 rooms, 3 beds, 3 baths 1,600 ft²) maint. $1961
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/344067-coop-10-west-66th-street-lincoln-square-new-york
StreetEasy History
08/23/2008 Listed in StreetEasy by CBHK at $1,850,000
10/07/2008 Price decreased to $1,700,000
11/07/2008 Price decreased to $1,500,000
12/12/2008 Price decreased to $1,300,000
Needs updating, but "Highly motivated seller will negotiate additional concession toward renovation!"

(Excluding higher floors where floorplans vary)
--------Recorded Sales----------|--------Previous Listings----------
CURRENT ..... #16D ......................... | $2,300,000 3 beds
CURRENT ..... #20D ......................... | ↓ $2,150,000 3 beds
CURRENT ....... #5D ......................... | ↓ $1,300,000 3 beds 1,600 ft²
08/04/2008 #12D $2,000,000 -16.5% |↓$2,395,000 Sold 3 beds 2.5 baths
12/14/2007 #19D $2,500,000 +13.9% | $2,195,000 Sold 3 beds 3 baths
04/07/2005 #10D $2,040,000 ........... | -

The low floor is a minus, but IIRC the "D" line doesn't have great views anyway.

I think this building is in for a steep drop, despite the great location. To but it bluntly, 10 West 66th is a charmless 1969 slab, and too many owners who bought at the conversion are getting old at the same time.

By the way, #16D - listed now with Maxwell Jacobs for $2.3MM - was at Elliman last year for $3.1MM. It had some updates, but nothing special.

Taking a nap.. pls wake me up when we get to $500psf on 10W 66th Street. Thx u

charmless slab it may be, but the location could not be better, and the price movement is real no matter how charmless. apparently it was charming enough for 19D to sell for $2.5 million, and for even 10D to break the $2 million mark in 2005. Given that essentially every apartment is highly negotiable right now, "additional concessions" sounds like broker speak for "1 million or less."

That price on 10W66 is amazing. It's like .5 M above my income, but he's asking almost half of the average ppsf in the building. And the maintenance is not bad considering size. A trend setter, IMHO.

I agree with both happyrenter and trompiloco. Under $1000 psf for that location is a great data point. Liking the direction. Unlike w67th, I'll stay awake to watch the fun, but I like his endpoint, and will be quite happy (and buying) if we get there.

"Maxwell Jacobs for $2.3MM - was at Elliman last year for $3.1MM."

It seems that when an apt undergoes a big price chop, it's representation is moved from a major brokerage firm, like DE, to a boutique or lesser known brokerage firm, as occurred with apt 16D above.

Why does this occur? Why doesn't DE just reduce the price & keep the listing?

Thanks.

newbuyer, and it's way below 1000 ppsf. I mean, it's 812 ppsf and the floorplan seems to back up the stated sqft pretty well.

A great location although I imagine the higher floors are a serious benefit considering you are on the CP Transverse at 66th which is always backed up.

I don't know about you guys but I don't consider W66th a good location. The street is far too busy being the E to W transverse. W67th is a much quieter street with more architecturally interesting buildings.

hsw9001: It's a good location in the macro sense. Micro, not so much. The mitigating factor is that 10 W66 is set back from the street a bit.

This is a great location, period, end of sentence. The park transverse can be crowded, but it's not like the entrance to a bridge. Is 67th street a lovelier block? Yes. I'd rather live on Bank and Waverly than on Perry and Bleecker, but that doesn't make Perry and Bleecker a bad location.

Newbuyer I'm awake now.... what'd I miss.. .did we go straight to $400psf?

HR..(in agreement) yes 67th street is much nicer but for an extra $1MM, I'll have my butler carry me the extra block :) That's a growth industry for all you laid off I-bkers and RE Brokers.. :)

w 66 is not like being on 37st/third avenue right by the Midtown Tunnel.

Not that I think it's a great apartment, but this one sure looks like it's going cheap:
310 West 79th Street #8ER - small 2BR/1BA, 900 sq.ft., maint. $1411(!)
StreetEasy History
03/24/2008 Previously listed in StreetEasy by Brown Harris Stevens for $825,000
05/13/2008 Listed in StreetEasy by Elliman at $789,000
05/14/2008 Brown Harris Stevens listing unavailable at $795,000
06/07/2008 Price decreased to $759,000
06/18/2008 Price decreased to $719,000
09/17/2008 Price decreased to $699,000
10/23/2008 Price decreased to $650,000
11/23/2008 Price decreased to $625,000
12/15/2008 Price decreased to $598,000 (per elliman.com)
http://www.prudentialelliman.com/Listings.aspx?ListingID=964910

"Owner must sell before the end of the year!"

--------Recorded Sales----------|--------Previous Listings----------
CURRENT ..... #8ER .........................|↓$598,000 2 beds 900 ft²
06/23/2004 #9ER $675,000

This may be a dumb question, but can monthly maintenance fees ever go down? I don't know, like if some staff gets permanently cut, or something?

If, in a declining market, all the units in a condo are at a disadvantage due to high fees, I was wondering if a building has (or ever does) done anything to try to get those down.

someone should go and offer $500k and see what happens...
it is only 900ft though

NBalzac: I own a condo in FL, and had common charges go down before (not NY, but i'm sure its the same here)
it was mainly due to astly lower hurrican insurance charges down there.

West81... $644psf.... not much longer now...:0

bid 500 and see what happens? if you bid 500 you'll get a deal. bid 425 and see what happens.

The square footage looks pretty inflated (I know, what else is new). I agree with offering $425K.

OK...W. 79th Street has caught my attention.... what is PS 87 like?

And why such high monthlies in a non doorman building?