Hello,
I am curious about a property like this. It seems that this relatively inexpensive asking price is due to (a) the somewhat high maintenance and (b) the assessment of $1992 for the mortgage.
My question is, is there a way for one to find out when and if this assessment will change/end? That is to say, a way for an individual (ie, not a broker) to find out when the mortgage will be fully paid off?
Response by NWT
over 13 years ago
Posts: 6643
Member since: Sep 2008
Look up the mortgage on ACRIS.
It's a 10-year term with a 30-year amortization schedule, coming due in 2020. So not paid off until 2040, or longer if(!) rates rise or the co-op borrows more money.
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Response by teneight
over 13 years ago
Posts: 0
Member since: Jan 2013
If you look at other listings for that same building, you can see similarly high figures for the monthly assessment. There's also a lengthy discussion specifically for that building as to why the assessment is so high:
The building had a land lease which it recently bought for tens of
millions of dollars. That is why maintenance is so high.
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Response by Daniel178
over 13 years ago
Posts: 106
Member since: Apr 2012
Hello!
Thanks for the informative replies.
NTW, I'm trying to navigate ACRIS... once the property has been found (block 01438 lot 0001), where do I find the mortgage amount and type? Choosing the "mortgages and instruments" document class just gives me a long list of names.
rb345, thanks for the heads up. I for one think this should be type of fact should be required by law to disclose on ALL descriptions and advertisements of a listing, IMO. Where is this information located in ACRIS?
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Response by rb345
over 13 years ago
Posts: 1273
Member since: Jun 2009
Dan:
Information about the Coop's mortgage and its purchase of its land is disclosed in its
annual report, which by law mustdisclose those facts.
That is why it is a good idea to review at least the three most recent annual reports
of a Coop before going to contract or retaining an attorney
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Response by NWT
over 13 years ago
Posts: 6643
Member since: Sep 2008
Don't worry about document type. Just switch Max Rows to 99, scroll down, and the mortgage will jump out at you. In December 2010 there're the deed for $45,000,000, the new mortgage for $47,000,000+ and the consolidation agreement (CEMA) for $51,000,000. The latter has the rate and dates.
It's also disclosed in the financials. There's no way all the relevant details of a co-op's or condo's finances could be disclosed in an ad.
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Response by Daniel178
over 13 years ago
Posts: 106
Member since: Apr 2012
Thanks again...
So I assume the land lease info is not something attainable through ACRIS? This, really, is the only thing I was talking about in terms of being disclosed. Just because it is a pretty unique and often menacing characteristic about a building.
And thank you for pointing out the mortgage. I did find it, along with the CEMA (I assume you're not talking about the "ASSIGNMENT OF LEASES AND RENTS" but instead the one that just says "AGREEMENT"). However, I am still unsure of how to determine whether or not it's been paid off yet. Forgive my ineptitude. :)
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Response by hsg9000
over 13 years ago
Posts: 95
Member since: Jan 2013
There is a long, long thread about this specific issue on the building's discussion page.
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Response by NWT
over 13 years ago
Posts: 6643
Member since: Sep 2008
You can use ACRIS to determine that there is a land lease, but not necessarily the details.
Scroll down looking for a mortgage, agreement, release of mortgage, lease, or memorandum of lease. You may have to look back for ten years or so.
Get the co-op's corporate name from any shareholder's UCC1, then look for mortgages with the co-op as borrower.
If the latest mortgage says the co-op has a leasehold interest in the land, rather than a fee interest, then you know there's a land lease.
There'll usually be a memorandum of lease, putting potential lenders on notice that the land is encumbered with a lease. That'll tell you the term but not much more. If the lease itself is recorded, which isn't often, it'll tell you the term, any renewal options, and how rent is determined, but not the rent itself.
For the useful info, e.g. how the rent impacts maintenance, and so on, you need to see the co-op's financials. There'll be a big line item for ground rent expense, and a note about the terms.
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Response by NWT
over 13 years ago
Posts: 6643
Member since: Sep 2008
Also, if the co-op has gone to law with the landowner about how the lease should be interpreted and rent determined, then the lease might be an exhibit or be referred to in a decision. That was the case with the Excelsior and with 420 East 51st. Start with eCourts and googling.
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Response by NWT
over 13 years ago
Posts: 6643
Member since: Sep 2008
Back to the original question about the co-op's mortgage, just work backwards. In the rare case where the co-op has no mortgage debt, there'll be a release of mortgage with no new mortgage. Most of the time the co-op will just keep doing new CEMAs, carrying some piddly amount that could be retired with the shareholders' pocket change.
The few enormous mortgages, like this building's or 2 Fifth's, will be detailed in the most recent CEMA.
Look up the mortgage on ACRIS.
It's a 10-year term with a 30-year amortization schedule, coming due in 2020. So not paid off until 2040, or longer if(!) rates rise or the co-op borrows more money.
If you look at other listings for that same building, you can see similarly high figures for the monthly assessment. There's also a lengthy discussion specifically for that building as to why the assessment is so high:
http://streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/6691-whats-the-story-with-301-east-63rd-street
Dan:
The building had a land lease which it recently bought for tens of
millions of dollars. That is why maintenance is so high.
Hello!
Thanks for the informative replies.
NTW, I'm trying to navigate ACRIS... once the property has been found (block 01438 lot 0001), where do I find the mortgage amount and type? Choosing the "mortgages and instruments" document class just gives me a long list of names.
rb345, thanks for the heads up. I for one think this should be type of fact should be required by law to disclose on ALL descriptions and advertisements of a listing, IMO. Where is this information located in ACRIS?
Dan:
Information about the Coop's mortgage and its purchase of its land is disclosed in its
annual report, which by law mustdisclose those facts.
That is why it is a good idea to review at least the three most recent annual reports
of a Coop before going to contract or retaining an attorney
Don't worry about document type. Just switch Max Rows to 99, scroll down, and the mortgage will jump out at you. In December 2010 there're the deed for $45,000,000, the new mortgage for $47,000,000+ and the consolidation agreement (CEMA) for $51,000,000. The latter has the rate and dates.
It's also disclosed in the financials. There's no way all the relevant details of a co-op's or condo's finances could be disclosed in an ad.
Thanks again...
So I assume the land lease info is not something attainable through ACRIS? This, really, is the only thing I was talking about in terms of being disclosed. Just because it is a pretty unique and often menacing characteristic about a building.
And thank you for pointing out the mortgage. I did find it, along with the CEMA (I assume you're not talking about the "ASSIGNMENT OF LEASES AND RENTS" but instead the one that just says "AGREEMENT"). However, I am still unsure of how to determine whether or not it's been paid off yet. Forgive my ineptitude. :)
There is a long, long thread about this specific issue on the building's discussion page.
You can use ACRIS to determine that there is a land lease, but not necessarily the details.
Scroll down looking for a mortgage, agreement, release of mortgage, lease, or memorandum of lease. You may have to look back for ten years or so.
Get the co-op's corporate name from any shareholder's UCC1, then look for mortgages with the co-op as borrower.
If the latest mortgage says the co-op has a leasehold interest in the land, rather than a fee interest, then you know there's a land lease.
There'll usually be a memorandum of lease, putting potential lenders on notice that the land is encumbered with a lease. That'll tell you the term but not much more. If the lease itself is recorded, which isn't often, it'll tell you the term, any renewal options, and how rent is determined, but not the rent itself.
For the useful info, e.g. how the rent impacts maintenance, and so on, you need to see the co-op's financials. There'll be a big line item for ground rent expense, and a note about the terms.
Also, if the co-op has gone to law with the landowner about how the lease should be interpreted and rent determined, then the lease might be an exhibit or be referred to in a decision. That was the case with the Excelsior and with 420 East 51st. Start with eCourts and googling.
Back to the original question about the co-op's mortgage, just work backwards. In the rare case where the co-op has no mortgage debt, there'll be a release of mortgage with no new mortgage. Most of the time the co-op will just keep doing new CEMAs, carrying some piddly amount that could be retired with the shareholders' pocket change.
The few enormous mortgages, like this building's or 2 Fifth's, will be detailed in the most recent CEMA.