This is slightly modified version of an old post (http://streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/9698-walk-up-vs-elevator) to get more current opinions. Any thoughts about how much an apartment in a walk-up building in Manhattan might be discounted to one in an elevator building with doorman? To buy, and all else being equal (same floor, same area, same size, etc). And let's say it's fourth floor (3... [more]
This is slightly modified version of an old post (http://streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/9698-walk-up-vs-elevator) to get more current opinions.
Any thoughts about how much an apartment in a walk-up building in Manhattan might be discounted to one in an elevator building with doorman? To buy, and all else being equal (same floor, same area, same size, etc). And let's say it's fourth floor (3 flights up).
Is there range of percentage rule of thumb that we can use when we compare spaces in Manhattan? According to the 2008 article about this topic (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/11/realestate/11cov.html), a comparable space in an elevator building would easily cost 10 to 20 percent more than walkup space. in 2013, Do we still believe this is relevant discount rate for walkups?
Thanks in advance
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Response by Riversider
almost 13 years ago
Posts: 13572
Member since: Apr 2009
If you can afford it, don't even quantify it. You'll be miserable in the walk-up without doorman. Unless you truly cannot afford, go doorman/elevator.
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Response by falcogold1
almost 13 years ago
Posts: 4159
Member since: Sep 2008
you can't hold everything equal b/c walk up is going to be in a small building unless there is an elevator building that small which begs different issues like greater responibility to operating expenses and labor shared by a small building. Ok, elevator plus doorman vs. key/walk-up thirs floor. Discount walk-up a minumum od 25%. Don't buy a walk-up unless there is some outstanding feature that some how makes it worth the the fact that resale will be a bitch.
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Response by huntersburg
almost 13 years ago
Posts: 11329
Member since: Nov 2010
One benefit of the walkup is no neighbor can leave his or her card in the elevator.
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Response by lad
almost 13 years ago
Posts: 707
Member since: Apr 2009
What price range / neighborhood? How typical are walk-ups in the neighborhood? I think most of the comments above apply to apartments in the $1.5mm+ or $2mm+ mark. At the lower end of the market, walk-ups are more common and don't tend to have as many resale problems.
I considered buildings of all types and sizes. I rented in a "luxury" doorman high rise, and then ended up buying in a walk-up for the following reasons:
1) More space for my limited budget (sub-$1mm)
2) Much lower monthly maintenance (I miss the doorman and package room a lot less with a monthly maintenace bill that's $500+ less than same-size high-rise apartments)
3) More flexible policies, like washer/dryers permitted
4) Character (working fireplace, skylight, terrace)
5) Better light / views - my 3rd/4th floor walkup has unobstructed Empire State Building Views, while many of the high-rises I could afford had no views and minimal light even on much higher floors
6) Beautiful, picturesque, tree-lined street of mainly Greek revival buildings
I'll be the first to say that the decision is not for everyone -- and small-building lifestyle is a thread of its own -- but the tradeoff was worth it to me. I'm not super-rich like everyone else on this board :), and my terrace (which I used today), washer/dryer (also used today), and skylights of my current apartment give me a lot more happiness than the doorman and package room of my old building. Maybe someday I'll have all of them, but for now I'm happy. :)
If your posting ID is any indication (you either have or are having twins) don't even think about a walk-up. It'll be a nightmare.
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Response by buster2056
almost 13 years ago
Posts: 866
Member since: Sep 2007
I'm certainly biased as I live in a doorman / elevator building, but I think my 2 main areas of concern for a walk-up would be resale value and building management.
The market prefers elevator buildings (doormen or not), and so all else equal, walk-ups command a discount and take longer to sell. That's a huge disadvantage. You may "get more for your money" with a walk-up, but you'll get less when it's time to sell.
Walk-ups tend to be smaller buildings. As Lad pointed out, monthly maintenance is certainly lower due to fewer amenities / services, however, assessments could be much higher as project costs are amortized over fewer units. I'd need to feel comfortable that the building was structurally sound, had no major capital needs in the next few years, and had a large enough reserve fund to deal with any unforeseeable projects. I'd also want to know that my neighbors had adequate funds. Finally, I'd need to be comfortable that the building was managed properly with competent board members, and even be prepared to take an active role in managing it if necessary. While due diligence is important when buying in any building, it's especially critical when you're buying in a walk-up and requires more levels of scrutiny. It's for very similar reasons that I would never buy a townhouse.
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Response by 300_mercer
almost 13 years ago
Posts: 10560
Member since: Feb 2007
3 flights up is 30 percent discount unless it is studio or small one bed, in which case the discount will be smaller. For larger apartment suitable for families, think strollers, groceries, furniture delivery, having to lug your luggage when you travel, high heels.
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If you can afford it, don't even quantify it. You'll be miserable in the walk-up without doorman. Unless you truly cannot afford, go doorman/elevator.
you can't hold everything equal b/c walk up is going to be in a small building unless there is an elevator building that small which begs different issues like greater responibility to operating expenses and labor shared by a small building. Ok, elevator plus doorman vs. key/walk-up thirs floor. Discount walk-up a minumum od 25%. Don't buy a walk-up unless there is some outstanding feature that some how makes it worth the the fact that resale will be a bitch.
One benefit of the walkup is no neighbor can leave his or her card in the elevator.
What price range / neighborhood? How typical are walk-ups in the neighborhood? I think most of the comments above apply to apartments in the $1.5mm+ or $2mm+ mark. At the lower end of the market, walk-ups are more common and don't tend to have as many resale problems.
I considered buildings of all types and sizes. I rented in a "luxury" doorman high rise, and then ended up buying in a walk-up for the following reasons:
1) More space for my limited budget (sub-$1mm)
2) Much lower monthly maintenance (I miss the doorman and package room a lot less with a monthly maintenace bill that's $500+ less than same-size high-rise apartments)
3) More flexible policies, like washer/dryers permitted
4) Character (working fireplace, skylight, terrace)
5) Better light / views - my 3rd/4th floor walkup has unobstructed Empire State Building Views, while many of the high-rises I could afford had no views and minimal light even on much higher floors
6) Beautiful, picturesque, tree-lined street of mainly Greek revival buildings
I'll be the first to say that the decision is not for everyone -- and small-building lifestyle is a thread of its own -- but the tradeoff was worth it to me. I'm not super-rich like everyone else on this board :), and my terrace (which I used today), washer/dryer (also used today), and skylights of my current apartment give me a lot more happiness than the doorman and package room of my old building. Maybe someday I'll have all of them, but for now I'm happy. :)
cart -> cart, dammit: http://streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/33694-apartment-living-beefs
If your posting ID is any indication (you either have or are having twins) don't even think about a walk-up. It'll be a nightmare.
I'm certainly biased as I live in a doorman / elevator building, but I think my 2 main areas of concern for a walk-up would be resale value and building management.
The market prefers elevator buildings (doormen or not), and so all else equal, walk-ups command a discount and take longer to sell. That's a huge disadvantage. You may "get more for your money" with a walk-up, but you'll get less when it's time to sell.
Walk-ups tend to be smaller buildings. As Lad pointed out, monthly maintenance is certainly lower due to fewer amenities / services, however, assessments could be much higher as project costs are amortized over fewer units. I'd need to feel comfortable that the building was structurally sound, had no major capital needs in the next few years, and had a large enough reserve fund to deal with any unforeseeable projects. I'd also want to know that my neighbors had adequate funds. Finally, I'd need to be comfortable that the building was managed properly with competent board members, and even be prepared to take an active role in managing it if necessary. While due diligence is important when buying in any building, it's especially critical when you're buying in a walk-up and requires more levels of scrutiny. It's for very similar reasons that I would never buy a townhouse.
3 flights up is 30 percent discount unless it is studio or small one bed, in which case the discount will be smaller. For larger apartment suitable for families, think strollers, groceries, furniture delivery, having to lug your luggage when you travel, high heels.