55 Hicks #5

I don't follow.

Do others have access to the deck? If they don't, will the Coop hire someone (security guard) to enforce that you can't go out there without paying?

Nope. You're the only one with current access (although a neighbor may be petitioning to also install a door to access the outside too-- in the future).

I don't even care about the bizarreness of forcibly making the owner rent the space. I just think it should be disclosed upfront. It should also be made clear that you do not, by virtue of this, own the outdoor space. For me it's just a matter of honest representation.

OK, I just checked out the listing. Here's the description:

"Prime Location! Perfect starter one-bedroom apartment awaits you in the very desirable historic North Heights. Loaded with charm, this apartment, located on the first floor of a five-story building, has hardwood floors, tin 10 ft. ceilings throughout, windowed eat-in-kitchen, windowed tile bathroom, and most importantly, its own HUGE PRIVATE DECK. Enjoy relaxing or entertaining on your own 12' x 24' decked patio. The building offers a laundry room, a common roof deck with sweeping harbor and city views, and bicycle storage. Private individual storage is available for a nominal monthly fee. Easy access to eight subway lines. Fine restaurants, shops, Dumbo, the beautiful Promenade and the fabulous Brooklyn Bridge Park are just steps and moments away. Don't miss this opportunity. Spring will be here before you know it, so fire up the grill and get ready for some terrific barbecues!"

Madeline Castrese should be ashamed of herself for this litany of deceptions.

First of all, there's no such thing as the "North Heights".

Second, and most damnable: "most importantly, its own HUGE PRIVATE DECK. Enjoy relaxing or entertaining on your own 12' x 24' decked patio." She says "OWN" twice. Not only is there no mention of the *owner* having to RENT the deck -- the copy states quite plainly that the buyer will ***OWN*** the deck. That's not just a deception, that's an outright lie.

And let's not let the misused "just steps (and MOMENTS!) away" phrase. DUMBO is a good 20 minute walk from the Heights. It's like saying that the West Village is just steps (and MOMENTS!) away from the Flatiron Building.

Thank you Matt. I've learned to live with the ridiculous gushing adjectives ( especially ridiculous when your budget is 400k or so and, as such, the spaces you can afford are defacto crummy). But I'm totally smarting over this deck business. It's got a very smoke-and-mirrors feel to it. It isn't the agents fault that the coop structured the ownig/renting this way, but she needs to be honest about the listing and not pull people in under false pretenses. It's just plain shady.

I think the key is whether the $743 monthly includes the deck. It would be misleading if additional "rent" is needed on top of the $743. Based on what the Op said, the total would be around $900 now.

That is correct. (Although I think it comes to more like 870 or so. Which is high-ish for a 350 square foot unit in a non- serviced walk-up building). As well, the shares for the unit do not include the outside. Which is why you pay the rental fee. To my mind, that means you don't own it. You lease it. Which is fine but should be clearly stated

And don't forget, the coop could choose to terminate your rights to lease the outdoor space, or could modify the lease terms in a way that you dislike, or could more easily refuse you permission to improve it (since it's the coop's property, not tied irrevocably to your shares), and so on...

Very true.

if you people didn't have something to complain about you'd fucking invent something.

suck it up cunt!

you want it, or you dont!

I would ask for an exclusive license or some type of ownership (stock and lease).

Unsure,

It doesn't surprise me that a broker would pull something like this. The floorplan looks a tad smallish (no disrespect), so a lot of the appeal is your "own HUGE PRIVATE DECK."

On the other hand most people would gladly pay $115.00 for an exclusive "HUGE PRIVATE DECK" even if it was rented. Just don't take it away from me.

Without knowing the specifics it's hard to understand why the rental price for the deck was not included in the maintenance.

It could be that the fact someone else may install a door will change the monthly charge and the agent did not wish to be held liable for advertising a maintenance charge that could chage. My suspicion is that she inputted the amount in her Rebny database as an assessment and for some reason Streeteasy does not recognize that field and won't carry it over to the listing page on its site. Someone with an OLR/RealtyMX account would need to visit the listing and verify whether the assessment amount is listed. I checked her site and did not see the separate charge on Corcoran's page.

It could be that, as a coop owner herself, she does not feel that the private deck constitutes a monthly charge that needs to be included in the list price. It's kind of difficult for me to immediately think of a reason why since the charge is mandatory but on the other hand, not everyone lists a gym's separate charge or the storage room's separate charge, even if those charges are mandatory.

My question for the OP, is the separate charge of the deck the reason why you didn't put in an offer on the apartment?

All fair points. I doubt the agent is trying to hoodwink anyone--but I do believe that this fee is knowingly left off the details because the maintenance is already (arguably) quite high. In acknowledging the excess, a fair amount of buyers might not consider the property. As well, the unit is priced a good 25% higher than any other one bedroom has sold for in the last four years or so. I assume this premium is for the outside space. The inside is entirely un-renovated. The explanation--as I understood it--was that the shares for the unit only represent the apartment. Therefore, the maintenance is only for the apartment. Ergo, the "rental" fee.
But while I understand why acknowledging the extra might drive potential buyers away, I also think it's shady to bring people in under the impression that the maintenance (and ownership shares) cover the outdoor deck.

In regards to making an offer: I actually like the apartment very much. I'm more than fine with old, creaky apartments and I'm realistic about what I can expect in terms of my meager budget. But I'm wary of buying anything with monthlies that high. It concerns me in terms of resale. I'm probably way too cautious...but I've been saving forever to buy a place. I don't want to make an imprudent purchase.

Anyhow. Thanks for all the input. I just wanted to post something with the full details of the cost for anyone else thinking they might be interested in the property. It's always better to have the full picture.

The way you started this thread means nobody will ever find it again, because you can't click the "55 Hicks" title of this thread. This means when people are looking at the 55 Hicks listing on Streeteasy, they won't see this thread. Another fail for unsure.

Sorry. I'm not well versed in how to create discussions. I just started a thread with the address as a heading. Clearly, there's a way to link into the listing but I don't know how to do that.

Thanks for pointing this one out. Another sleazy broker to stay away from, no doubt.

"Sorry. I'm not well versed in how to create discussions. I just started a thread with the address as a heading. Clearly, there's a way to link into the listing but I don't know how to do that."

Just did it for you.

The agent is a prick. I think the bigger question is, if you love it enough to buy it because of the outdoor space, are you willing to let it go over the extra money it costs to have it? If you love the place, make an offer you feel it fair. When do you plan on reselling? dont forget to factor in the tax deductibility. 400k ish is a decent budget, i have seen plenty of co-ops in the heights in that range, keep looking and waiting if you have the time.

also, NYC Matt, i have heard plenty of people refer to the fruity streets in brooklyn heights as the north side of the heights, or bk heights proper. Technically those streets are on the northern side of brooklyn heights. I think it makes you cringe because it sounds eerily like the south and north side of your favorite neighborhood - williamsburg...

Matt just doesn't like fruits.

I do think it's a sweet apartment and I'm sure someone will learn of the additional fee and be fine with it. I just wish sometimes that buildings that don't accept dogs didn't scream "pets allowed!" in the listing. Or that ten year assessments were mentioned somewhere in the glowing description...or that "cash only" was clearly communicated in bold letters. It's so exhausting to exert the effort to view places only to learn of fundamental surprises upon arrival. I know this is all par for the course, but its really started to wear me out. I think I need a break from the hunt. It's turning me into a grinch.

from what you've said the problem isn't the fee. the problem is that access could be denied at any time, the fee could be raised any amount, and others could have access.

true that, and worse, cc--if anything it's a neg--you have no ongoing right to the outdoor space, and no control over what will become of it--could become an inoperable lesion on the apt--stay away

That's true. I didn't even consider that the fee could escalate. If I could add a nice deck onto my rental for an extra 115 a month, I'd do it in a heartbeat. So, maybe my reservation about that is hypocritical. But, again, it just pulls the maintenance up to a level that feels unhealthy; nearly three dollars a square foot for a first floor unit in a building with nothing but stairs and a super. I should also add that the list sheet declared the buildings reserves at a level that--by my rough calculations--comes to about 2 months of operating costs. So, that's another factor that doesn't sit will with my aversion to unnecessary risk. It's a shame because I've developed such an irrational love of Brooklyn Heights. After years in the east village, it feels so civilized and pretty. I'm ready for an adult neighborhood. Rarely does everyone seem drunk on the streets of the Heights. I can't say that about where I live now...

Thank you so much for the heads up.