5th on the Park (Harlem)

I almost bought pre construction in this building until I caught the developer's son in a lie. It was the best thing I never did. I was told it would be ready for occupation in the fall of 2008. Well....Morgan and a handful of others are only just now living there. It's also a blight in the neighborhood as that it does not give anything back. Just a dark tower that will most likely sit for a long time barely occupied. A shame.

what's this board's take on the recent ILSA court rulings? also, does anyone of know any buyers who successfully backed out? or if the buuers who are renting are covering their costs?

what's this board's take on the recent ILSA court rulings? also, does anyone of know any buyers who successfully backed out? or if the buuers who are renting are covering their costs?

Isn't the iPad thing kind of pre-credit crisis? I mean seriously...can they at least be original?

From Crain's:
Prices to be slashed at big Harlem development
Owners of the 28-story condo 5th on the Park still have about 70 of their 160 units to sell; family friendly amenities will be added and brokers could score iPads.

To rekindle sales at one of Harlem's biggest new residential properties, 5th on the Park, the developers announced Wednesday that they will slash prices and give away five Apple iPads to brokers.

The 160-unit condominium, which is across the street from the historic Marcus Garvey Park, is more than 50% sold and occupied. To attract brokers to the 28-story luxury building designed by FX-Fowle, the developers are hosting two parties for sales people—one Wednesday night and a luncheon on Thursday—where they plan to unveil new prices and additional broker incentives. In an effort to boost attendance, the developers will give away five iPads.

Artimus Construction and Uptown Partners, the developers of Fifth on the Park, refused to disclose the discounts on the remaining units before the broker events. Griffin Real Estate Group is handling sales at the building, which is located at East 120th Street and Fifth Avenue.

According to StreetEasy.com, one- to four-bedroom apartments for sale at 5th on the Park, range in price from $638,800 to $3 million. StreetEasy.com said the average price per square foot for all active listings in the building is $914. That is nearly double the average price per square foot price at new developments in uptown Manhattan, including Harlem, which fell 10% to $471 during the first quarter from the same period a year ago, according to Corcoran Sunshine.

Artimus and Uptown Partners join a list of developers who are still introducing perks and giveaways to lure buyers to their properties, despite a recent pick up in sales activity and traffic to open houses.

In addition to the incentives, the developers have re-launched the property's Web site and plan to announce the addition of new family friendly amenities to the building, such as a children's playroom and bike storage space.

incentives to boos sales a pre crisis thing? Explain that. dont just post an article. The ipad is hot right now. Dumb people may buy a unit there as a way to get one. Cmon guys

SE shows 28 units sold, 7 in contract. they're claiming they've sold 90? sure.

No way is it 50 percent occupied. Unless they come down to $500 psf, they can give all the iPads away they want. Nothing will sell.

Well bronxboy, you know I am a bear but that buidling is MUCH nicer than other new Harlem bdgs by a MILE, and the average price for new doorman condos below 125th has been $575 YTD. So things HAVE sold for more than $500 PSF that are not even as nice.

However, it is far from the subway...but no, I think these will go for $600-700 PSF.

"I am a bear but that buidling is MUCH nicer than other new Harlem bdgs by a MILE". I agree with you that some features of the building are nice such as the lobby and the outdoor terrace. Other finishes are not as desirable: cheap carpet in hallways; yellowish walls,red hardwood floors, dark cabinetry. This is just my personal taste. Some of the apartments' lay out are a little awkward. Where is the closest grocery store? I would consider buying an apartment this building if the price would be in the 500s per sft nothing more than that. Remember two main factors : 1) Huge inventory in Harlem :2) Interest rates going up.

I agree with globetrotter. $500 psf and I would consider it. The location is a problem; there's just nothing around there and the park can be sketchy. Yes it was built as a "luxury" building...a big mistake to begin with...

Also, we already know that the building is "distressed" All the leverage is with the buyer on that one.

I was comparing it to OTHER BUILDINGS IN HARLEM. On that basis, its nicer than virtually all, by a mile. Did they go cheap here and there? Very few Harlem new doorman condos are NOT similarly if not more cheap.

I said the location is not great, but frankly this is also true of just about anything else other than things right on 125th (yuck) or on 116th/Lenox (projects-ville.) The alleged "gold coast" is the only convenient AND nice spot, and the prices their are just as unrealistic and the construction as cheap or cheaper. Nonethless, things have sold for more than $500 PSF recently in all these other places...

I agree, having lived near MMP I would not choose this particular place, but it does have a garage AND ample street parking, so I could easily see SOME people opting for this.

There are more services around Lenox and 116th (supermarket, CVS). The 2/3 train is right there and many bus lines converge there. It's not pretty, but many more services than 120th and Fifth. Also closer to Central Park. In all, a much better location in my opinion despite the projects below. I've lived in the area for almost two years and haven't had any problems. Walked around the so-called Gold Coast yesterday. It was hot, noisy and just as ugly, though I do prefer being closer to Morningside Park. I wouldn't pay more than $500 psf for anything in Harlem right now. And I'm bullish on Harlem's future.

These are so ridiculously overpriced, you would have to be the biggest sucker in NYC to pay anything close to these prices for this property. Wow.

Still insansely priced for what they offer.

Well, we will see. I think we both agree its too high NOW

does anyone know where these so called closings are closing at? is itr in the 6xx/sqft handle?

Check property shark - it's there in black and white and it's way above $600 PSF.

I think this is a decent building and of better overall quality than those on FDB. Nice views on the high floors too. Amenities are better on FDB of course, but the area right around there is more charming, and Lenox amenities are improving quickly, plus it's only a couple of blocks to get to FDB.

I used to think all South Harlem condos would fall to the $400-$500 psf range ... have been shocked how well they have held up. We'll see how long it lasts .. but amenities are improving so rapidly it's getting easier not harder to justify the prices.

you can still make out the blood stains in on the sidewalk in front of the building. Scary.
----------------------------
http://www.ny1.com/content/top_stories/119289/three-stabbed-in-east-harlem

Police are searching for a suspect in connection with the stabbing of three people in East Harlem this morning.

Investigators say a man slashed a 26-year-old man and 48-year-old man as they were walking near the 125th Street subway station around five o'clock this morning. They say the suspect then stabbed a 27-year-old man at 120th Street and Fifth Avenue.

Investigators say the attacker escaped into nearby Marcus Garvey Park.

$400 psf is what you should pay because of its location.

http://dnainfo.com/20100329/west-village/two-men-killed-subway-stabbing-greenwich-village

looks like it also happened on christopher street ....

"I used to think all South Harlem condos would fall to the $400-$500 psf range ... have been shocked how well they have held up. We'll see how long it lasts .. but amenities are improving so rapidly it's getting easier not harder to justify the prices."

That must be nice crack you are smoking. I lived on Mt Morris Park for two years from 2007-2009, and was just in the area the other day for a haircut. FAR MORE stores, restaurants etc have closed in Central harlem, especially in that area, then have opened, since 2007. Hell, that is true in Lenox Hill or Chelsea. You are literally on drugs if you think in this economy amenities are "rapidly improving" in harlem. They are better than in 1995, yes, but outside of FDB there has been no improvement at all in 3 years. If anything a decline.

I don't know the Mt. Morris Park neighborhood, but it seems to me that Frederick Douglas below 125th has a lot of new (and quite pleasant) restaurants, with more about to open. I thought people were exagerating when they praised the new grocer on FDB, but it is terrific (very fresh, high quality groceries and prepared food at remarkably reasonable prices.

....which is why my above post says "...outside of FDB there has been no improvement at all in 3 years..."

THAT street is clearly nicer than it was in 2007. But ACP, Lenox, Madison, 5th, 125th, or 116th? All a giant "no!"

The neighborhood does have POTENTIAL, but 5th on the park has so many 2, 3, and even 4 bds. The only way these would work is if people sent there kids to private school - and at $8/900 SF that is not realistic.

so how many have actually been sold to owner occupiers???
exactly how many?

Good question. No more than 90/150 closed, and I think its even less than that as many walked away from deposits.

Jason, first of all, I was referring to all of South Harlem, not just Mt. Morris. If you don't think somebody who lives on, say, 119th and Lenox benefits from stuff going on 2 avenues over, you're just wrong. Anyway, though, a ton has opened in the last few years, not just on FDB.

Anyway all of these expanded or opened since 2007:

LENOX/Madison/5th -

settepani - opened for dinner service; italian
il café latte - coffee, sandwiches
toni's mini's - cupcakes
island salad - salads
wild olive market - upscale grocer
piatto d'oro - expanded; old world italin
chez lucienne - french bistro
spinners - chicken
ottomanelli

FDB area

best yet - nice grocer
frizzante - italian
5 & Diamond - upscale restaurant
harlem little gym - great for kids
67 orange- speakeasy
harlem meats - butcher
just wingin' it - wings
kuti's - west african sandwiches

coming soon to FDB
Aloft Hotel with restaurant
Red Rooster
Bier Garten

closed or closing-
emporer's roe - a caviar bar
harlem tea room - a specialty tea bar
that luxury car dealership
gingers chinese restaurant - terrible food, bad service, etc.
lee lee's - good product but inconsistent hours
charlies - the worst sushi ever

The places that closed were way too niche or upscale for the area, or just frankly were terrible. This isn't to say that every place right now has no issues, but on the whole a lot better than the closed places. To say this isn't improvement is crazy. I don't think it justifies $800-$900 psf either though ...

You left a LOT off of that seemingly exhaistive list. The fact remains that there are more closed storefronts now than in 2007 in the UWS, Soho, Tribecca, Lenox Hill, The Village...I can go on, but I was JUST in each of those areas recently and there are just plenty more closed than open...and there have been countless articles on the same. Its simply beyond rational to therefore assume that harlem, where neither residential or commercial real estate has bucked the overall Manhattan trend, is somehow better off now than it was.

Clearly, for any shops or restaruants within easy walking distance of 5thonthePark, there are not any marked improvements. FDB is arguably close, but not really. If you want to walk to a nearby shop and live in union Square, you don't consider Meatpacking to be a short walk.

When you update the above list to include the OTHER closed shops (discovery zone, BBBraxtons, RuthAnne's, etc) and also keep in mind the very large inventory of empty storefronts and abandoned and semi-abondoned buildings in the area, then we can talk.

Yes ... just what Harlem needed ... ANOTHER hair salon (overpriced at that) and ANOTHER soul food restaurant. No, my list wasn't comprehensive, but I didn't list everything that opened either (subway, lolita's - which expanded recentely, mojo's, etc.). I did leave out a third category, in addition to overpriced, poorly executed/bad, which was "there's already plenty of these." We can go back and forth until we get a comprehensive list, but amenities have improved.

And as far as the Union Square comparison. You do realize that Lenox avenue is the heart of Mt. Morris district? And that's 2 avenues away from FDB. 5th avenue - the outer edge - is 3 avenues. Union square to the BEGINNING of meatpacking district (9th avenue) is 4.5 avenues. My friends who live on say, Avenue A or B certainly frequent the restaurants and shops on 2nd avenue.

As far as articles - there have been articles making both claims. . You claim "simply beyond rational to therefore assume that harlem, where neither residential or commercial real estate has bucked the overall Manhattan trend, is somehow better off now than it was" ... well, prices are lower, that's for sure. But retail comes down to supply and demand, so in an area where there is a dearth of retail AND more market rate people than there were a few years ago, retail can improve.

Does that make it worth $800 psf? No. It still deserves a big discount to other areas ..

You forget I live in Harlem still, and go to Central harlem all the time for haircuts, and can thus see with my own eyes the lack of progress. I mention the other areas to add another layer to the argument. And 5th on the Park is on 5th. So its three long blocks to FDB. When I lived on Mt Morris Park West, I could get neither good East Harlem places (El Paso) or halfway decent FDB places (Atomic Wings) to deliver a few blocks over. It SUCKED. Hell, i could not even get some of the places you mention above to deliver.

On top of that, Lenox has nothing. Its just not worth discussing improved services unless you are discussing it in the context of living on or just off of FDB from 110th to 125th...or really 120th.

I hate mindless Harlem bashers, but I also hate mindless harlem cheerleaders. 5th on the park, which is what this thread is about, is near NOTHING, and for those prices you could get plenty of places in and below Harlem that are literally ON TOP of places you would want to go (Starbucks, nice bars and restaurants, the subway station etc) rather than on top of a Church and 10 minutes by foot to anywhere you want to go - and 125th and 116th were and are not places I or anyone who could afford 5thonthePark would want to go.

If you are looking in the area, stick to East harlem below 106th, where you can get UES deliveries, or to FDB below 125th, or Morningside. The rest won't be up to speed for another 5 years at least.

Kspeak, do you know where on FDB Red Rooster and Bier Garten will be housed?
Thanks.

Bier Garden will be on FDB b/w 113th and 114th. I walked past and had a good look recently, was kinda hoping it would be ready by the soccer world cup. There is work being done but it is hard to tell. The front has not changed but the inside has been undergoing renovations for some time. I stopped by and asked the workers who were vietnamese. They couldn't understand me so I didnt get anywhere. When the shuuters are down it looks like the mess it was beofre but work has def started..

Jason, I'm not a mindless cheerleader for harlem - never have I said that it's worth $800 psf - I'm simply stating a fact. I will even give you that the condos on FDB are certainly closer to amenities than fifth on the park. However, some people might prefer this location for other reasons: maybe it's a couple where one commutes to CT from 125th and the other on the 4/5/6. Also, frankly, even fifth avenue on the UES and is farther from amenities and the subway than lexington avenue - you pretty much need to go to Lex to buy anything everyday (groceries, drugstoress), the only thing on Madison is upscale retail). People prefer it because of the Central Park access and nicer housing stock. Now, this doesn't face Central Park and it's Harlem not the UES, but it's a prettier overall area in terms of housing stock, than FDB. And it's not a long walk to get to FDB.

I just challenged you to list every place that has closed vs. what has opened in South Harlem. I guarantee more has opened than closed since 2007, especially in terms of USEFUL stuff. You listed 3 more places that had closed; I listed 3 that have opened previously excluded. You can't tell me that having a decent French bistro, 3 (instead of 1) italian places to chose from, and a decent grocery store isn't a big improvement compared to having another hair salon and a caviar bar.

Well I hated that area, so we can agree to disagree.

DEFINITLEY entirely new sales team, the original sponsor not only went bankrupt but is not involved at all.

Red Rooster is opening on Lenox between 125th and 126th streets not on FDB. One main reason, is the boatload of tourists that unload on a daily basis at Lenox and 127th right where Sylvia's is located, not to mention the transportation options, architecture, retail and entertainment along 125th street, etc. FDB will never be able to accomodate significant business expansion and will never be able to attract much attention because the area has little character...nothing more than a bunch of new boxes. Lenox from 119th to 129th will definitely be where the action is in Harlem.

There needs to be more security cameras & an increased police presence in the park. this is getting out of hand:

----------------------------------
Man Stabbed Outside Marcus Garvey Park, Fourth Victim in Three Weeks

http://www.dnainfo.com/20100611/manhattan/man-knifed-brazen-daytime-stabbing-outside-marcus-garvey-park

FYI. Per Harlem Bespoke, police indicate that the suspect's description in the latest attack is a male in his mid 20s with blond hair and blue eyes. Stay vigilant and if you see something contact the police.

$500 psf

"Lenox from 119th to 129th will definitely be where the action is in Harlem."

That is a giant turd of BS. There are MANY boarded up brownstones, many more decrepit ones, plenty of closed storefronts, and one gigantic vacant lot on this stretch. FDB from 110th-125th ALREADY looks 10x nicer than this stretch.

agree with jason
the morningside to FDB area while still very much Harlem is improving rapidly and with the condos filling will keep improving faster than the Lenox

Jason10006 and Joedavis, maybe you are both right . . . .

BUT, the Distinction, I believe trying to be underscored, is that while 8th may already be there, improving rapidly with the Condos filling up and Restaurants and Bars and Support Services quickly following . . .
Lenox, between 116 to 135 WILL BE, where a new, potentially stronger, Real Estate 'wave' comes in the future, maybe 5-15 years down the road!

""MANY boarded up brownstones, many more decrepit ones, plenty of closed storefronts, and one gigantic vacant lot on this stretch" might spell big time Opportunity to certain folks . . . .

Some of those empty Condos all over Harlem would probably sell a lot faster if prices drop to another level, maybe even slightly less than 500$/Ft!

The next 12 months or so might reveal plenty in that direction . . . . or not!

The potential is very strong for Lenox to be a grand avenue, especially from 120th to 125th. The biggest problem is the churches. They take up so much of the landscape and really don't contribute to the progress or future of Harlem in any way. In fact, they are holding it back in many ways.

Theres churches and then there are CHURCHES!
St Martins, anchoring 122nLenox and the Church diagonal with the yellow limestone; and the maroon painted brick Church on 123nLenox with that 'Pastor;' All make Architectural statements about the "Grand" Potential for Lenox!

Its those 2x4 raggedy storefront operations, with 21 members, and little maintenance on their edifice, that create some of the eyesores and problems!
I believe they will eventually disappear!

Interesting that Harlem Topics pop up on front page of SE regularly!
The horizon may well be sooner rather than later . . . .

Folks are taking note . . . . fortunately or not!

Most of those churches are losing attendance rapidly as the neighborhood gentrifies. They will go the way of so many grand churches below 96th - be sold, converted, torn down, etc.

I agree that POTENTIALLY lenox and ACP both could be much nicer than FDB, but they are not so now and there is zero evidence that they are becoming so any time soon. This is why object to the BS.

does anyone know the concessions that came with 18F? I'm assuming they are considerable..

I'm not certain, BUT, I do know they have some 'new' pricing at that Condo in the past few weeks--WAY off initial pricing!
Still really high, but way off the stratospheric highs they were initially asking, and getting closer and closer to more [sell-able] realistic!

im not basing anything off initial pricing, not sure who would

I recently viewed a (1) bedroom and (2) bedroom and absolutely loved the building. The views of the park were very pretty. Since I have lived in NYC (moved here in 2006), these prices seem to be the most reasonable by NY standards. Now, I wish that the prices were more in the $500psf range, the amenities prices are very reasonable. After reading this blog, I am thinking a little more negatively about the area but Harlem is up & coming. I also viewed a studio condo 10 blocks south on 110 & 5th and the price was the same as the (2) bed/bath condo at 5th on the park. While I love the 1280 5th address at Central Park, I would much rather get the extra space at the same price which is what 5th on the Park offered. Just my two cents!

1280 Fifth is priced ridiculously for a shaky area. Fifth on the Park is also too high. And as a result, many, many empty apartments. And I agree, who wouldn't want more space for the same price.

1280 5th is the new kid on the block with pricing pointed NORTH of where Fifth/Park initially WANTED to be!!

GO FIGURE!

^^What he said. Even at the 2006 peak, Harlem did not have 1280 prices at the nicest bdlgs.

The goal to sell Harlem condos is around $550 to $650 psf. Do that and your building will fill rather quickly. Anything higher and prepare for a long, slow, hopeful wait.

Well this bldg proves that...4 years and stll not full.

And now I see that Halstead has raised prices on some units at the bankrupt Lenox on 380 Lenox Avenue into the $700 plus psf range. I wonder what they are smoking?

Yeah, that seems weird. That 380 is over 50% renters (many renting from "investors", not the sponsor...)

one should do one's research very specifically on any building prior to making ANY comments.

This building has exactly 30 families occupying it. The church next door holds the lease to the land, the first two floors are IT'S apartments - all rentals. Part of ANYONE's common charges GO TO THE CHURCH. I have no problem with even having a church in the building (being a woman of faith)
I DO HAVE A PROBLEM WITH LYING, THIEVING, IMMORAL owner/developers/sales reps etc. as well as irrelevant comments (i.e. apt prices, spats between commenters [go blog it for heaven's sake ... and leave the comments section open for people who want the facts - which are indisputable.]

I got one week short of going to contract on a gorgeous apt. there - 3 beds, priced at over 1.15 m - which i'd negotiated down to less than 800k, garage space thrown in, replacement of the ridiculous aircon/heating systems .... etc.... in fact, we got so low it became a joke. the systemic design of this building is beyond ridiculous alone AND DESIGNED TO KEEP ALL PURCHASERS ELECTRIC BILLS AT PRICES THAT VERGE ON RAPE for many reasons - not the least of which is that all heat/aircon units are placed, without possibility of venting - directly NEXT TO THOSE GORGEOUS ENORMOUS WINDOWS AND ON TOP OF THE STOVE AS WELL AS NEXT TO A WINDOW IN THE KITCHEN......

Harlem is no longer 'up and coming' we are in a major depression (tho the media 'pundits' - who have nothing to do anymore with the populace would tell you we are either going into a 'double dip recession' or 'it's going slowly but looks like we are recovering....yak yak') - it's simply a more suitable 'lifestyle' depression for all (that is, people who should have never rec'd loans to even buy a home but did are now in conflicts legal and otherwise with those who sold them their golden dream.....and everyone blames those who created the abuse......anyone ever stop to think 'what kind of people would buy the crocks of rot these schemers sold - how stupid are we anyway?)

as for the churches.....how many people does anyone ever see going in and out of all of them? I go to church in Harlem, right next to another condo I did go to contract on (2056 Fifth) but could not buy nor pursue because the sponsor could not sign the contract! Talk about luck! phew. Tis true - there are a zillion churches in Harlem (and one fabulous monument to the mormons (latter day saints) right on lenox ave at 126/127 Street - a mega church comparable to Mt. Bethel's megachurch - which owns and is right next to, this building.

^^^this post is all sound and fury with no meaning.

im sorry you were PRICED OUT FOREVER

I like the part where people argue about which is better, Lenox or FDB. It reminds me of the good old days when people used to argue about which was better, the UWS or the UES. Please, keep it coming. I'm loving it all, especially from almost-buyers who didn't buy.

Jason,
I think she was cut off. At least that's how it reads. But is it true that she negotiated down from $1.1 to under 800K with parking and heating replacements? I think if they want to sell any more of their units, that's what they need to do. I almost bought pre-construction at Fifth on the Park until I saw throw the lies of the developer. Best thing I never did. The building is a disaster.

Disaster may be a bit much, but I looked at one of the condos as a rental, and it was very nice for Manhattan, let alone harlem. And the A/C units near the windows is rather common. But I don't doubt the developer is shady, so to BUY, I am sure I would need a carpenter to go over ever inch for hours.

I meant a disaster in the way it was handled by the developer; the lies, broken promises, and outrageous pricing. So the venture has been a disaster.

does this building do fha financing? <800k @ 3.5% down is basically a free option on a 3br if so..

I get it Bronxboy. Its true what you say.

Brooksvale, I suppose you may be right. Let us know how that option play goes!

> DESIGNED TO KEEP ALL PURCHASERS ELECTRIC BILLS AT PRICES THAT VERGE ON RAPE for many reasons - not the least of which is that all heat/aircon units are placed, without possibility of venting - directly NEXT TO THOSE GORGEOUS ENORMOUS WINDOWS AND ON TOP OF THE STOVE AS WELL AS NEXT TO A WINDOW IN THE KITCHEN......

don't get this, where should they be placed instead? how much energy gets wasted by being close to the windows?

> condo I did go to contract on (2056 Fifth) but could not buy nor pursue because the sponsor could not sign the contract!

why couldn't he sign it? totally agree with you about the current econ situation. you've been lucky so far by not being able to buy imho. i wonder what effects will the expiration of tax abatements have in Harlem under an scenario of already decreasing prices. add to that a reduction of the mtg interest deduction and eventually higher mtg interest rates. it doesn't look not pretty.

> there are a zillion churches in Harlem

no kidding! too many in my opinion, one of the reasons it's tough for restaurants to find proper retail space as they need to be far away from churches in order to get their liquor license.

I agree about the churches. Too many to the detriment of the growth of the community. Harlem is slowly changing, but developers expect buyers to pay $800 psf plus when the neighborhood is still in great need of amenities and services, not to mention safety and schools as well. The target rate psf in Harlem should be around $600 psf in my opinion at this time.

Marcus Garvey Park continues to get worse. Where is the increased police presence? where are the additional cameras? There has been a Squatter Camp installed there for months (hidden on the East side of the cliffs) and neither the Parks Department or the Police will do anything about it. The park is back to the 'Bad old days' of being a sinkhole that pulls everything around it down. THE POLICE NEED TO MAKE MARCUS GARVEY PARK SAFETY THEIR TOP PRIORITY IN THIS AREA!

--------------------------------------

Nude Body Found in Leaves in Marcus Garvey Park
http://www.dnainfo.com/20101124/harlem/body-found-leaves-harlem-park

So glad I moved from there...it hardly more comforting when the police used to be all over the place every weekend night, stopping me (a resident) a time or two just to check on what I was doing (I was walking home.) Simply a reminder of how safe it's not...

I see police a lot in Morningside Park...is that any better?

...FYI mean the park, not all of Harlem!

i walk through morningside park regularly albeit only on the 120th street stairs and live right by it
have not noticed any problems other than noise from BBQers on summer weekends

...which is why I think East Harlem below 106th (closer to the UES & new subway) and along FDB below 125th are better bets.

Trouble

http://therealdeal.com/newyork/articles/fifth-on-the-park-5th-on-the-park-site-of-landmark-ilsa-ruling-switches-up-marketing-team-dumping-griffin-real-estate-group-for-halstead-property-development-marketing

Will they wake up and lower prices? That area is too desolate for prices so high.

Hi,

Is there anyone who knows what's the going rate for the parking spot sold for? I wonder how many spaces are available in the garage for this building. Thank you.

Re the recent ILSA ruling is the AG's office required to recognize this breach of federal law and grant all other contract holders contract recision rights?

http://therealdeal.com/newyork/articles/appeals-court-overturns-key-ilsa-interstate-land-sales-full-disclosure-act-ruling-in-nyc-involving-fifth-on-the-park-and-one-hutners-pointion rights?

Hi there, just read the article above. My reading of it is that the 50 or so borrowers under contract who were looking to get out of their contracts will now be able to--and get their deposits back. Is that accurate? If so, how you think it will impact future sales? Thanks.

also curious to know if those that got their deposits back are also getting their legal fees reimbursed?

Any updates on this since Halstead took over. I am looking to buy at 675 per square foot if I can

I think they'd hit that bid in a heartbeat - just ask for your face back after you close.

Indbuyer, You're joking . . . right?

seriously! the list prices are sub $650 already and they still have 100 vacant units--after 3 years!

Can you believe they ever asked for and got up to $1200 PSF?

What about the $5MM penthouse for sale there? Its huge, but...I eman if I had $5MM, that would not be what I would buy. Even if you restricted me to just Harlem places...not that.

Interesting. 17C is for rent for $3750 per month. 13C, identical floorplan, is for sale for $990,000, or $654 PSF. A 22X rent to own ratio. Your total monthly payment would be $5,740 owning, before tax deduction. ALthough that monthly payment for owning (or renting for that matter) do not include insurance. Also, buying would mean you could not invest $198,000 elsewhere.

I am not sure I would make this kind of trade.

Yeah, something tells me no one will be jumping at that rental op.

I don't know, my point was the opposite - why buy when you can try it out first by renting. At the rate they are selling, after one or two years something else will still be open or available for resale.

$3750 for a true 3bd/2bth with W?D in unit in a brand new full service doorman building with a gym and pool and no restrictions on what amenities renters can use is pretty cheap. Even for Harlem.

am hearing that even if the ilsa suit prevails that buyers who did not file suit in federal court won't get their money back and that the ag will not enforce the federal ruling. is any of this possible? seems like the ag should call for rescision of the fed suit wins, right?

That's a load of bull. It's not in the AGs political interest to refuse to enforce this ruling. He'd been opening himself to the charge of being in bed with price-gouging developers. Remember the sanctity of contract?

It works both ways.

re he AG's office apparently that's what they are telling people. that they cannot / will not weigh in on on the recent ILSA ruling, because it's a matter of federal not state law. seems totally wacked out to me. anyone know any good lawyers who can help press this case? and it it really too late to file additional ilsa claims, even if the stature of limitations has run out?

@jason10006: Are you a buyer/potential buyer or a harlem resident?

@Jason10006: I answered my question by going back to your earlier posts. Sure seems like you've been at this for a very long time

FYI - they have over 45 contracts and nearly 50 sold which effectively puts the building at about 66% sold

"@jason10006: Are you a buyer/potential buyer or a harlem resident? "

Yes

i am looking to pay appx 1200$ psf in east harlem

am i being unrealistic?

if you can help pls email lookingtobeborkershilled@keysherpa.com

I will not be outbid.

Just entered into a contract for an apartment after talking to several owners. Couldn't be happier about my choice!!

cherrywood: on what basis do you believe that the ag will / is required to take a stand on what is a federal matter?