Rent by owner

Check with the condo's managing agent.

There're lots of owners here who rent no-fee and so get higher rent. They'll jump in with advice any hour now.

Why not use a broker? They do all of the grunt work, you just supervise. Also, I wanted tenants that could afford to pay a broker, all part of the screening process. When I rented my condos, I required,references, both professional and personal, current check stub from employer, name and phone number of current and previous landlords. I generally steered away from people who were living out of town.

If I liked what I saw I would than have the broker get a credit report to be paid for by the tenant. If I than rejected the tenant, I'd refund the fee for the credit report, otherwise at that point I would have the broker prepared the package for the condo. I rented for 15 years and never got a deadbeat. It's worth spending the time upfront to avoid problems later. Good Luck.

which web-site can I use to run credit checks on a potential tenant?

@RealEstateNY because it's unethical to have a tenant pay your expenses on broker fees. Just because it's common doesn't make it right!

Also, I personally think it's a conflict of interest.

Prospective tenant was aware of all fees upfront.

"I personally think it's a conflict of interest."

What does that mean??

Hire a broker! You really want unlock the door yourself and meet people face-to-face? That's not even the worst part - once the tenant completes the application package you have to staple it together and drop it off with building management! You'd have to be crazy to do all that work yourself. CRAZY! Besides, if the tenant has a question or takes issue with part of the lease its soooo much more efficient to "play telephone" rather than to have a direct conversation. Jeez! Stop reading this and hire a broker! The last thing a broker would do is push through a crappy tenant so they can get their fee and move on... They care about your property more than you do!

Right easy street, save yourself an hour or two of work and expect the tenant pay $4000+ extra out of pocket. Sounds fair.

Yes, sounds easy enough, once you get past all the phone calls from renters who want answers to questions that were answered in the ad, but where are the step-by-step Landlord 101 instructions the OP wants?

To each his own, but for anyone who has graduated from Junior High School and doesn't mind putting in a few hours of his/her own time to select a tenant, and honestly, should WANT to know the tenant, I don't see the value that a rental broker adds other than what easy_street so eloquently pointed out above regarding showing the apartment and preparing the paperwork. I personally would rather earn a few hundred more in rent per month than have my tenant pay an up front broker fee and pay me less.

By using a broker to rent your condo you are delaying the time it will take to rent the apt. Also your rent will have to be lower and in many cases a lot lower when using a broker.

Example say you want to rent your condo for $4000 per month using a broker. That's a whopping $7200 in commission fees that a prospective renter has to write a check for to the the broker for the privileged of renting your condo. That comes out to 600 extra per month. So the rental is not really 4000 a month it's $4600 a month. Now who's going to pay 4600 per month if the real rental market value is 4000 per month. The broker will now convince you that you should rent your place for 3500 per month so he can move it faster. That's why rentals in condo's are lower due to the fees brokers charge.
If you compare the time it takes a broker to rent a condo as opposed to a owner renting a condo the difference is huge.
Simple formula for renting a condo as an owner. Place listing on street easy. Have an open house on Sundays. In probably one to two weeks you'll have your place rented. Go to condo management board get paperwork that needs to be signed (credit check, background check, application etc) have the prospective tenant sign it and ask for deposit (return if rejected) and if accepted have him sign the lease ask for first month rent and last month rent with a bank check.
In most case brokers will not have an open house for rentals and couple that with the huge rental fees and you have an apt that will be on the market for a lot longer. Open house takes one hour. Big deal.

"If I liked what I saw I would than have the broker get a credit report to be paid for by the tenant. If I than rejected the tenant, I'd refund the fee for the credit report, otherwise at that point I would have the broker prepared the package for the condo. I rented for 15 years and never got a deadbeat. It's worth spending the time upfront to avoid problems later. Good Luck."

In mostly all cases your condo management company has an arrangement with a particular company to do background checks, and credit checks. They want to be equally protected. I think it cost the tenant anywhere from 75 to 150 bucks... big deal, No need to use a broker for that unless you are so lazy you can't email over the papers to the prospective tenant to fill out.

Still say you get a more substantial tenant through a broker and more stable since most tenants willing to pay a brokers fee will want a 2 year lease and possibly an option for a 3rd year. Therefore the fee is spread over 24 or 36 months.

The fee is not spread over anything. It is paid all upfront.

Where should an ad be listed? Is street easy sufficient ? Craiglist yielded very fee replies.

"Still say you get a more substantial tenant through a broker and more stable since most tenants willing to pay a brokers fee will want a 2 year lease and possibly an option for a 3rd year. Therefore the fee is spread over 24 or 36 month"

That's not true and even if they spread the rent over 2-3 years you're still getting below the market rent for years 2 and 3, And you'll be waiting months for your condo to be rented because you ruled out all the prospective renters that don't want to pay a fee. A substantial tenant is a tenant that has a strong credit score and also a strong rental history. The background check that the company performs for the condo checks their renting history, and does a credit check.
Don't be fooled by a broker telling you that tenants that pay commission fees are stronger and better tenants than those who don't. In fact it's probably the opposite.

Street easy should be sufficient. However I would also post it on Craigslist as well. That's all you need and do not leave your email address on street easy and Craigslist just your telephone number. Those who are really interested will not email you.

or I should say those who are really interested will call you. You will get calls from brokers telling you that they have a client that wants to rent your apt. Ignore them they just want to get an exclusive listing from you. once they do their client disappears.

I still want to know why a condo has a "board approval package" for anything, given that all they can legally do is ROFR to block a lease or sale...

What is the advise for not paying these application/board package fees - which are as stated unnecessary and just a way for a managing agent to milk a building?

Hey broker, why don't you make yourself useful and answer the question?

meh... advice... I hate that.

my clients tell me that i do a lot for a litte. i get professional photographs taken of the apartment which cost my firm $250. these photos make the place look much better than if you take them yourself, no doubt about it. then the apartment goes on the Halstead website which is picked up by streeteasy, nytimes and a miriad of others including yahoo and google....just a tremendous on-line presence. Brokers in fact generally get owners a higher rental price than if they rented the apartment themselves just because the property is seem by more people so a larger pool of interested parties.
being a broker myself, i have paid over $30k in broker commissions since moving to the city in 2000. as much as i hated paying the commissions, i just wouldn't have found the apartments i rented in without them.
all true.

"what's the sequence of events of selection of tenant, credit check of tenant, , submitting the 500$ condo approval package (which presumably the tenant pays...), getting some upfront deposit committal from the tenant. "

a) request a non-refundable deposit to hold the unit until they sign a lease.. couple hundred dollars?
b) get them started on the board package, assuming you don't want to fight that step (see my last posts). Doesn't this board package cover the credit checks, etc? if not, wtf are you paying for? This lovely board package, which is useless and is there to enrich the managing agent will likely cost you another month in rent as you wait for it to be assembled and processed. wtf again.
1) using a lawyer for the lease and/or amendments? get going on that.
2) send them the lease for signature and sec. deposit.
3) keep showing the apt until they sign. if they delay or balk, you want to be ready.

What is your price point? Who is your target tenant? What neighborhood is this in? How long have you owned the apartment and what condition is it in?
And why don't you just sell it instead of being an accidental landlord?

>a) request a non-refundable deposit to hold the unit until they sign a lease.. couple hundred dollars?
>3) keep showing the apt until they sign. if they delay or balk, you want to be ready.

What is the non refundable deposit for if it doesn't take the property off the market?

gcondo great advice

I would also add that give therm a strict time limit. Have them get the lease back to you the next day or the day after they receive it with the checks.
Better still have the sit down meeting with them and have lease signed and checks in hand.

"Where should an ad be listed? Is street easy sufficient ? Craiglist yielded very fee replies."

You have to renew the CL ad 2X a week or so. People assume older ads are expired, even if they are still up.

NYBits is another popular no-fee site.

streeteasy by itself is plenty

I've always said it's a conflict of interest for the tenant to pay the fee of the broker, who's supposed to be representing the landlord. It's bad practice and should be illegal, or at least a violation of some ethics policies. Only in NYC does this happen.

Fortunately there're lots of no-fee/owner-pays options, so no tenant need go against principle and pay a broker directly.

And before you ask "why" it's a conflict of interest, consider the fact that if the broker is collecting fees from the tenant, he or she is going to consider the interests of the tenant over those of the landlord.

The broker gets a commission as a % of rent. So its in the interest of the broker to have as high a rent as possible. Not sure that qualifies as a "conflict", since the tenant knows this going in...

wiivile

33 minutes ago

Posts: 19

Member since: Aug 2012

ignore this person

report abuse

I've always said it's a conflict of interest for the tenant to pay the fee of the broker, who's supposed to be representing the landlord. It's bad practice and should be illegal, or at least a violation of some ethics policies. Only in NYC does this happen.

You sound too poor to pay a commissoin to get the apartment you actually want. people with real money don't object to it.

I'm not surprised that Jason doesn't know that conflict and disclosure are two separate things. This is a guy who doesn't know the difference between use of the word "here" and the word "hear."

"You sound too poor to pay a commissoin to get the apartment you actually want. people with real money don't object to it."

I agree but those with real money are okay with not having to pay commission as well. When you list your apt to both groups of prospective tenants will view your apt. Those that don't mind paying commission and those that do. Why not market your apt to both groups as opposed to just one. I do have a feeling that those that don't mind would appreciate not having to.

"Why not market your apt to both groups as opposed to just one. I do have a feeling that those that don't mind would appreciate not having to."

Yeah, do that. There are $10,000 a month or more apartments in no-fee buildings, and fee studios for under $2K per month.

Wouldn't it be better to know if this is a $2K apartment or a $10K apartment and many of the other questions I asked before suggesting a one-size-fits-all approach?

It is difficult/impossible for the general public to "run credit". There are a lot of websites saying that they "run credit", but they do not. You will need someone who has been vetted by an agency like NTN to run the credit and background if you want an actual report, no matter who it is. It is not a cake-walk to be able to pull credit in New York - and even when you can run credit as a broker/etc. after being put through the screening process, you have to sort through many unique things like Nationwide Criminal that will come up with either 0 or 40 results - based on name/alias/birth date and year entered, due to the laws here. Without the ability to hard-pull credit and background, you end up with a report as reliable as a free-trial search on Ancestry.com.

Note to above reply: This (the credit, etc) is why a lot of owners do just hire a broker, whether everyone hates it/thinks we are horrible or not. The bottom line is: we do a lot of song-and-dance and hoop-jumping behind the scenes to make it seem like our jobs are the equivalent of flipping burgers.

you dont need a broker.

if you have time to show your apt, it is better for you to get a feel for the folks who you are going to enter this tenant/landlord relationship with. Trust your gut and do the background/credit checks and use a lawyer.

streeteasy is great for no fee listings - you will get traffic. craigslist has no credibility.

brokers will always say the tenant is paying the commission and they say they will get you the best rent, but I have found that having no fee and a reasonable rent that you are happy with (not necessarily the highest rent) will foster a better longer term tenant/landlord relationship. People are not stupid. Most of them can do simple math.

You are FAR better off long term getting people who are happy, who felt you treated them well, than people who had to pay through the nose to live in YOUR apartment.

"use a lawyer."

In all my years of renting I never used a lawyer. Rather use a broker and let the tenant pay.

RealEstateNY: Why should the tenant pay for your convenience of using a broker??

Use a broker , or don't use a broker

Let the battle begin ... again

wiivile

5 minutes ago

Posts: 20

Member since: Aug 2012

ignore this person

report abuse

RealEstateNY: Why should the tenant pay for your convenience of using a broker??

You just answered your own question you broke ass bitch. CONVENENIENCE. People of means (both owners and tenants don't complain about fee's. Only wannabe's.

And, contrary to what many NON OWNERS on this board think, professional landlords do often state that they'd rather a tenant with the "throw away" money that a broker commission may represent to them rather than some cheap, down at their heels tenant.

RENY is a broker, therefore anything he/she says will be slanted toward its profession.

yes great advice, dont use a lawyer.

as far as preferring someone willing to toss their money away --- I'd rather have someone who respects their own money. They may respect the unit a bit more, too.

"In all my years of renting I never used a lawyer. Rather use a broker and let the tenant pay."

Hence that's one of the problems using a broker. You should make sure your lease is enforceable. You should make sure that no matter what lease you choose to use that you check with a lawyer. I would never give that decison to a broker.

"RENY is a broker, therefore anything he/she says will be slanted toward its profession."

Where did you get that idea??? Clairvoyant??

There are two sides to everything. I'm also a broker, but for an owner who doesn't have a portfolio, lives in NYC already (ie: is currently living in the unit), and has the time, I can absolutely see the value of doing the rental yourself. There is nothing like getting to meet the prospective tenant in person and do a gut/instinct check on whether you think they're good people that you'd want living in your apartment or not. When I've represented small-time landlords (only own one unit, maybe two) who live in NYC, i typcially try to arrange a short meet-and-greet with them and the paperwork-approved tenant before lease signing. It makes both the tenant and owner feel better, and frankly, takes the liability off me (the broker), in regards to me promising something that I didn't, or not disclosing something. The tenant and owner having the chance to speak honestly and openly (though respectuflly) to one another before lease signing is worth its weight in gold for all partiest involved. The major value of using a broker you like/trust is when the landlord has so much property that showing and leasing it is a full-time job that the owner doesn't want to deal with, or the owner is out of town and not able to do it him/herself.

Streetva: somehow this thread has devolved into the "use a broker" vs. "don't use a broker" discussion, and your original question of the procedure of how the deal is done was lost in the shuffle. To answer your question: You should first get basic paperwork from the tenant so you can approve them to sign a lease. This should be: most recent tax return (w2 or 1099 is helpful too), letter of employment on company letterhead stating salary and position, and how long they've been there and signed by supervisor, most recent bank statements, a few recent paystubs, and govt photo ID. Once you're ok with that, sign a lease with the tenant and collect one month's rent and whatever security deposit you both agree on, and have them start the board package. When client is finished, have them deliver the finished board package to you to look over, then you make the appropriate copies and submit to mgmt.

I would also get it in writing (even just via email) that the tenant understands that once you submit the package, the time until approval is out of your hands and that the board has 30 days to approve it (sometimes more), ****and that you cannot guarantee a move-in date****.

>This should be: most recent tax return (w2 or 1099 is helpful too), letter of employment on company letterhead stating salary and position, and how long they've been there and signed by supervisor, most recent bank statements, a few recent paystubs, and govt photo ID.

A bit much to be asking for tax return in addition to employment verification and paystubs, and bank statements.

>Once you're ok with that, sign a lease with the tenant and collect one month's rent and whatever security deposit you both agree on, and have them start the board package.

These checks should not be deposited until the lease is effective.

>I would also get it in writing (even just via email) that the tenant understands that once you submit the package, the time until approval is out of your hands and that the board has 30 days to approve it (sometimes more), ****and that you cannot guarantee a move-in date****.

The tenant should do better. The tenant should ask that the owner is in good standing with his condo and do that by a) stating what move in date is needed by the tenant, and b) getting a rider on the lease that if the lease is not approved by the date that would allow for this move-in, it's no good (subject of course to the tenant's agreement to waive this requirement if the tenant chooses). This should come with the understanding that the owner previews the lease even before the package is submitted with the appropriate person on the board and asks for the cooperation of the board member in pushing the lease through the board and managing agent in an appropriate timely fashion. A board may have 30 or 60 days after a proper application is submitted, but it doesn't need more than 10 minutes. If the owner can't get this done, or can't agree to get this done, it's an indication of either the managing agent, the board, or the owner's good standing with the board. A prospective tenant shouldn't be an asshole, but should hold the owner to providing the type of tenancy that the tenant has proven he is qualified for and will pay for. In fact, it's an easy ask in context of the tenant stating that his current place is done by a certain date or he has to be in NY by a certain date, etc. And it should be an easy one to agree by the owner, showing that he'll "go out of his way" to satisfy the tenant on this important matter, and see what sway he holds with the board when it counts.

Greensdale, I disagree with your first point, as tax returns from last year (or last 2 year's tax returns) are important in showing a track record of good income. As an owner, it's better to see that your prospective tenant has had solid income of 100k the last 2 years vs. someone with 30k the last two years, and JUST got hired at a new job making 120k.

Second point: absolutely. Owner should get cashier checks, only deposit them once board grants the waiver/approves applicant. REBNY bylaws state that this should be the process, but it's just a good idea to do it anyway even in a private transaction

Third point: agree on this, but I'm only referencing the owner's interests here, as it's an owner who asked for advice, etc.

>Third point: agree on this, but I'm only referencing the owner's interests here, as it's an owner who asked for advice, etc.

Getting the tenant in the door once the owner has approved the application himself is also in the owner's interest.

>Greensdale, I disagree with your first point, as tax returns from last year (or last 2 year's tax returns) are important in showing a track record of good income. As an owner, it's better to see that your prospective tenant has had solid income of 100k the last 2 years vs. someone with 30k the last two years, and JUST got hired at a new job making 120k.

You already asked for an employment letter stating duration of employment.