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adding outlets or upgrade??

Started by unsure
over 12 years ago
Posts: 79
Member since: Dec 2009
Discussion about
Hi. Looking for advice or experience... I'm considering buying an apartment that is quite old and has very few outlets--none of which are near enough to the window to easily accommodate an a/c. The electrical box only appears to have two switches (I'm not even sure that's what they're called). The entire unit is about 400 square feet and the present outlets are three prong. The broker was telling... [more]
Response by NYCMatt
over 12 years ago
Posts: 7523
Member since: May 2009

Do NOT resort to power strips to plug in an air conditioner!

Bite the bullet and make the investment. Most likely, however, you'll have to completely rewire everything; it's never just a matter of simply adding a few new outlets, and most likely since your place is so old, it's probably not even up to standard code.

Of course, this will involve hiring a general contractor to fix your walls after the electrician has ripped through everything. And you'll want to have the place painted afterwards as well.

Figure about $15,000 for the whole ball of wax.

On the bright side, it's money well-spent, and I guarantee you'll never get tired of those "extra" outlets.

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Response by unsure
over 12 years ago
Posts: 79
Member since: Dec 2009

Thanks, Matt. I had no idea it could be that expensive. Wow. Very good to know.

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Response by NYCMatt
over 12 years ago
Posts: 7523
Member since: May 2009

While you're at it, have cable and phone jacks put in everywhere. You never know where you'll eventually want to have a television or telephone.

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Response by unsure
over 12 years ago
Posts: 79
Member since: Dec 2009

Do you have any sense of how long a project like that takes? I assume I'd need to do this prior to moving in...

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Response by alanhart
over 12 years ago
Posts: 12397
Member since: Feb 2007

You can run your AC from an extension cord ... I'm sure the previous occupant did.

You don't need to do any of that electrical upgrade crap if you don't want to. It's simply a matter of convenience vs. expense, that's all.

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Response by NWT
over 12 years ago
Posts: 6643
Member since: Sep 2008

That's what I was thinking. Three-prong outlets can't be all that old, and the previous owner or tenant had to have AC somehow. For a one-window studio, one circuit for the kitchen and one for the rest might be enough to get by with for a while. It's not as if you're going to get an electric wok.

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Response by alanhart
over 12 years ago
Posts: 12397
Member since: Feb 2007

And you can control what you use at the same time. Turn off your AC for a few minutes while your Pop Tarts are going. Fortunately, you don't have essential electrical things -- water heater, stove, like that.

Additionally, many things consume much less electricity than their predecessors. LED bulbs these days are the joint, for example.

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Response by NYCMatt
over 12 years ago
Posts: 7523
Member since: May 2009

"You can run your AC from an extension cord ... I'm sure the previous occupant did."

You can also throw lit matches into a jug of kerosene. Or grease the bottom of your bathtub with coconut oil. Or fry up your scrambled eggs on your gas stove in the morning wearing a flowing taffeta bathrobe.

None of this behavior, however, is wise or advisable.

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Response by alanhart
over 12 years ago
Posts: 12397
Member since: Feb 2007

By the way, the mere fact that there are circuit breakers rather than fuses indicates that the whole thing isn't THAT old anyway. Practically a toddler.

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Response by alanhart
over 12 years ago
Posts: 12397
Member since: Feb 2007

Matthew, do you understand how circuit breakers work, and what happens if a circuit is overloaded?

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Response by alanhart
over 12 years ago
Posts: 12397
Member since: Feb 2007

Or ANYTHING at all, for that matter?

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Response by unsure
over 12 years ago
Posts: 79
Member since: Dec 2009

I find this whole process of buying so overwhelming and expensive that I'm very tempted to turn off my a/c to toast my pop tarts, but I know it's ridiculous to make such a large investment and then cheap out on something as fundamental as electricity. That said, I'm still shocked at how pricey it is.

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Response by NYCMatt
over 12 years ago
Posts: 7523
Member since: May 2009

Alan, do YOU understand how circuit breakers work, and even more importantly, how they FAIL ... when the "weak link" is an overheated extension cord??

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Response by NYCMatt
over 12 years ago
Posts: 7523
Member since: May 2009

Unsure, $15K for a soup-to-nuts renovation that includes upgraded electric, new outlets, new walls, and even painting is actually a low estimate for NYC.

The fact that you think it's so expensive makes me wonder, therefore, whether you're really in a position to be buying anything at all.

New York City is expensive, and skilled (and LICENSED) labor does not come cheap.

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Response by unsure
over 12 years ago
Posts: 79
Member since: Dec 2009

True. I feel like I'm in a comfortable position to be buying. I have a large-ish downpayment and a decent amount left over. I'm also looking at places under budget for what I can borrow/afford. (I should note that I'm not a high roller here--in the market for very small one bedroom)
But I wasn't planning/intending on any renovation. I just happened to find an apartment I like that needs one. And because I'm not familiar with the process, I'm reluctantly coming to terms with how much it costs. I thought I had a handle on what the apartment was worth, but these considerations are definitely making me question that.

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Response by alanhart
over 12 years ago
Posts: 12397
Member since: Feb 2007

Matthew, do you realize that an extension cord is exactly the same wiring (gauge for gauge) as what they'd put in a wall, or in rigid conduit outside the wall (if you're into that)? So why would it be the weak link that overheats, any more than the wire behind the wall?

unsure, I highly doubt that you'll have any trouble running A/C while using any other normal electrical devices at the same time. Don't give it the slightest additional thought. It's just noise.

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Response by Ottawanyc
over 12 years ago
Posts: 842
Member since: Aug 2011

What's a phone jack? Unsure you need to chill out. Live there and then see if you have a problem that needs fixing. Dinosaurs on here can freak you out. Find a place you'd like to live and deal with whatever the little issues are when they come. You are over thinking.

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Response by NYCMatt
over 12 years ago
Posts: 7523
Member since: May 2009

"Matthew, do you realize that an extension cord is exactly the same wiring (gauge for gauge) as what they'd put in a wall, or in rigid conduit outside the wall (if you're into that)? So why would it be the weak link that overheats, any more than the wire behind the wall?"

It's ignorance like this that causes house fires.

Extension cords most certainly are NOT the same gauge as what you find in the walls. Have you even seen wiring that goes into the walls??

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Response by NYCMatt
over 12 years ago
Posts: 7523
Member since: May 2009

"What's a phone jack?"

It's what we'll ALL be using, once again, after we find out our cell phones are giving us all cancer.

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Response by flarf
over 12 years ago
Posts: 515
Member since: Jan 2011

There's no shortage of 12 gauge extension cords, which are most certainly the same or heavier gauge as what unsure's potential apartment has inside the walls.

Home Depot has 16 of these in stock in at their 23rd Street location: http://www.homedepot.com/p/Husky-25-ft-12-3-Extension-Cord-AW62614/100661446#.UcGq7px32Ul

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Response by BigPapi
over 12 years ago
Posts: 95
Member since: Nov 2012

@ unsure ..... Broker's are full of BS , so don't trust them on anything regarding electric infrastructure

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Response by gcondo
over 12 years ago
Posts: 1111
Member since: Feb 2009

wireless phones - not cellular.

use a heavy gauge extension cord - not an issue.

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Response by oldgreyhair
over 12 years ago
Posts: 122
Member since: Nov 2010

Unsure: you have been given good advice and counsel by Matt. The only definite way you can determine load capability is to have an electrician determine the amount of Amps per circuit breaker and calculate the number of lines going to each breaker. Do not run power strips to support an AC. Also, if this is a prewar, you want to check the condition of wiring....

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Response by needsadvice
over 12 years ago
Posts: 607
Member since: Jul 2010

OR just have an electrician rewire the AC to a longer cord.

Simple. Safe. Cheap.

This does not need to be a big deal.

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Response by needsadvice
over 12 years ago
Posts: 607
Member since: Jul 2010

If you are worried about your cell phone, you can also get a cell booster.

Honestly, there is a lot of over thinking going on here.

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Response by walpurgis
over 12 years ago
Posts: 593
Member since: Feb 2009

Unsure:

It's true - way too much overthinking here. Time to relax.

One sure way to test your electrical system, & save time as well, is to draw a nice bath, & take the toaster &
pop tarts in with you. You'll know if everything's working - but only momentarily. The tripped breaker will eventually be reset by somebody.

And to think you were just shocked as to how pricey it was!

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Response by unsure
over 12 years ago
Posts: 79
Member since: Dec 2009

Naked and dead in a bathtub, holding a half eaten pop tart. Just the way I hoped first time home ownership might look...

Thank you to everyone for your thoughts!

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Response by walpurgis
over 12 years ago
Posts: 593
Member since: Feb 2009

Glad you have a sense of humor - which is exactly the way it was intended.

In all seriousness, however, if I'm not mistaken I remember seeing a tag on my air conditioner cord from my old apartment, warning that an extension cord should NEVER be used.

Don't know if that included power strips, which (don't all attack me now, everyone), my air conditioner is presently attached to, left behind by the previous tenant. So far so good; I just checked, & the air conditioner cord, plug & power strip aren't hot to the touch, & I've had it running for around an hour.

Good Luck in whatever you decide.

Gotta go now - I'm about to test my new low-budget jacuzzi, which is simply a blow dryer submerged in the tub & turned on to create bubbles.

I just immersed it, & turning it on now. OK - here goeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

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Response by unsure
over 12 years ago
Posts: 79
Member since: Dec 2009

I knew you were kidding...and I laughed.

I was looking around the apartment I live in now (which is an old, stabilized, un-renovated apartment) to see how many outlets I currently use and realized that I have an ancient fuse box here. So, it's entirely possible I've been living for 12 years with an equal or worse electrical system to the one I'm considering. It's just not something I ever even thought about or paid attention to before. Ignorance was probably my friend. Now that I'm aware of this, the fuses will probably start to blow.

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Response by NWT
over 12 years ago
Posts: 6643
Member since: Sep 2008

The National Electrical Code prohibits an extension cord for any appliance, so the users' manuals all have to say the same thing.

The idea is, if you have to install a dedicated outlet for the appliance, it's likely to be able to safely support the appliance. If extension cords weren't prohibited, the manufacturers would have to explain what capacity cord was required, how to determine capacity, and so on. It's much easier to just say "No extension cords!".

Here in the land of "Coffee hot! Hot burn!" you can imagine the verbiage it'd take to tell people not to use $2 lighting cords for their toasters and ACs.

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Response by walpurgis
over 12 years ago
Posts: 593
Member since: Feb 2009

NWT, you said it all.

Unsure - apparently you've been very lucky - ignorance is bliss, as they say (I should know!) Better buy a few fuses...

A single dedicated, heavy duty electrical outlet is indeed the best & safest bet (& installed close enough to the air conditioner so that an extension cord or power strip are unnecessary.

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Response by needsadvice
over 12 years ago
Posts: 607
Member since: Jul 2010

HAVE AN ELECTRICIAN SPLICE IN A LONGER CORD. This is not an extension, it's the same cord, same amperage, same volts, just longer. The licensed electrician will check that it is correct. That is his job.

Call an electrician, ask him about it. Actually, this is New York, you will have to call 3 to find one that is legit, licensed or not.

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