Sale at 490 West End Avenue #9B

why would anybody pay $3M for sth like that?

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/746352-coop-490-west-end-avenue-upper-west-side-new-york

this one is so much better!!!! and was on list under $3.2M. a much better buy imho. 4 bedrooms, no claustrophobic floor plan. contrary to 9B this one offers real light, nice air circulation and a little bit of a Hudson river view, for under $3.2M.

seems to me 9B buyer SUCKER! LOL

Notadmin: Different markets. #12A needed extensive reno. #9B was absolutely move-in. I don't think the comparison to #12A is very useful, other than to show the premium buyers will pay for a mint-condition apartment that is tastefully done.

sounds crazy to get stuck with a claustrophobic floor plan, no views and bad air circulation just to avoid the most basic reno.

imho we are talking about a very naive buyer who's ill-advised.

compare this
http://img.streeteasy.com/nyc/attachment/show/1322257-490-west-end-avenue-manhattan.jpg

with this

http://img.streeteasy.com/nyc/attachment/show/1413572-490-west-end-avenue-new_york.gif

then add the fact that's 3 floors higher AND at the height at which real light comes in thanks to the buildings that surround and block 9B's windows aren't blocking 12A's windows.

if you claim that the realtor/buyer combo of 9B is a sane one, then the realtor/buyer combo of 12A are absolute geniuses in comparison.

Notadmin: I'm not defending the price on #9B; it does seem quite high, and I agree that the "A" line has a far superior floorplan. I wonder, though - based on your comments about light - whether you saw these two apartments. Note that there are two mid-block low-rises directly across WEA from #9B. The ninth floor of 490 clears those buildings comfortably. Also, #12A sold six months before #9B. Those six months coincided with a 20% rise in equity prices, and a lot of that wealth was chasing coops this spring.

The more important point is that #12A needed an overhaul that could take a year or more and close to a million dollars. While the value proposition on #12A might be better, it is clearly different.

> Those six months coincided with a 20% rise in equity prices, and a lot of that wealth was chasing coops this spring.

there's absolutely no need to waste that 20% equity rise on overpriced real estate.

there's no discussion that while 12A has real windows, 9B has brick-facing ones. this along with the much worse floor plan make the 9B buyer a certified SUCKER, or to put it mildly, somebody who is not into finance nor wise asset allocation :0-)

Notadmin, to confirm, you are saying that 9A is in contract at the asking price? If so, or even if it is in contract at anything close to the asking price, that is pretty crazy. I've been following the C7 market on the UWS. There does seem to be little inventory in this market segment, leading to many bidding wars, but to pay over $3MM for this place seems unprecedented in my humble opinion. The smallest bedroom seems like the size of a maid's room and the second bedroom doesn't seem that big either. Are the bathroms renovated-the lack of pictures of the baths makes me wonder (and not that if the baths were renovated it would justify $3.2MM)?. I wonder what, if anything, the buyer used for comps.

7 -room apt inventory is always scarce-ish. That is the single most frustrating thing for a potential buyer. You are afraid to settle for one because a "better" apartment might come on the market. But when it does, the market has "jumped" 20%. I know IRL many buyers in this category (7 room in the 2-3m price range) bound to a narrow range of UWS. Scarcity of rental apartments in good condition doesn't help.

jojo10 wrote: "I wonder what, if anything, the buyer used for comps."

We can only guess what comps - if any - the buyer was looking at. The listing agent pointed to pending sales at 239 CPW. Other usable comps would include 140 RSD #3H, 845 WEA #11C and #12B, 327 CPW #4A, 172 W79 #12FG, 27 W72 #1405 and maybe, among larger apartments, 607 WEA #12A and 905 WEA #111.

FWIW, I don't think those comps comprise a persuasive case for paying $3.2MM for 490 WEA #9B. What they do demonstrate, though, is that 2013 has been a difficult year for anyone seeking a fully done 3BR in a nice building on the Upper West Side for under $3MM. And if the buyer favored the PS9 catchment (yes, $3MM buyers often DO care about public school zones), then 239 CPW and 490 WEA were on a very short list of options this spring.

I have some insight into the psychology of buyers in this market. It's less a case of using comps from 6 months ago when the market gets overheated in a short time, more a case of: these are the asking prices today, so it's 10% over last 6 months, can we afford the 10% and we're going to be here forever unless we trade up. IMO, that's why the market dropped when it did because of job uncertainty and prospects. They're buying because they're tired of looking and something has happened to make them think that they have a longer term future in the city.

Also, if a potential buyer owns their current apartment, whatever the ask prices have gone up by, their current apartment has probably appreciated the same amount, making sticker shock more bearable.

nyc10023, all good points, but two thoughts. First, I would have adifficult time saying that 6 months ago this apt should have gone for 10% less (call it $2.9MM). Also, let's say that the buyers have a small 2 bedroom place that was worth $1MM 6 months ago. Even if that has gone up 10%, that is still "only" $1.1MM. I've only ben looking for 7 room places, so can't say with any real knowledge what the market has been doing for an apt that these buyers would be looking to get out of (whether it's a 3 or 4 (or even 5 or 6) room apt) but based on what little I have heard, I would be surprised if there was sufficient price appreciation for a smaller apt to make a buyer say "hey, our current place has gone up enough that we can now afford to pay $3.2MM, whereas we couldn't do that 6 months ago."

Generally, someone who is buying has been watching the market for a long time and has seen these short term price hikes before. Nothing new. Prices spiked in spring 2002 for example. Yes, prices will come down again, but the people who are buying don't want to wait for whatever reason - kids, turning point in life/career, or are just tired of it. As far as trading up, I don't mean to say that the bump up in a smaller apt is now equivalent to the bump up in C7s but merely that it makes things more palatable. Also, it's never been better to sell (not just from a price but also a condition POV). If you have a family, it's harder to keep your place in show condition. Better sell now, while the getting out is good.

I am not saying and have never said that this is rational, merely that I happen to know people in this situation and this is their reasoning.

The price may not make sense but there are five times as many people chasing this exact type of apartment in these locations in mint condition than there are apartments out there.

Supply and demand. 239 CPW 6E had something like 10 or 12 offers when it went best and final after the first weekend in April.

Btw, i have no idea what notadmin is talking about: i saw this apartment at the open house: it may be a small 7, but it showed beautifully, had a very new renovation with all the trimmings, good light and in a very nice building. It had real windows. Nothing looked at brick walls. It even had a peek of the river from the MBR for people who care about such things.

Also in comparing to the twelfth floor eight which needed a gut and went for 3.2, you are talking about 4 million after reno including the year you spend financing it. Yes it is a bigger and nicer layout but obviously not an apples to apples comparison.

and lastly, jojo, the third BR, while small, was not maid's room sized. show me a 9x12 foot maids room. Maids are 6-8 feet wide with 6-7 feet being average. You might think thats minor but its a big difference where a bed is involved.

bfgross, given that you have actually seen the apt, I'll defer to you. It does seem that the bedroom has grown about a foot in each direction with this listing as compared to the prior time that this apt was listed, as well as compared to other B lines in the building. Acording to the other B line listings, the room is about a foot bigger in each direction than the B line's maid's room (which of course isn't present in 9B's current configuration). I do agree that a foot in each direction makes a bigger difference in a smaller room like this, as compared to a larger bedroom. I looked at the floorplans of a couple of other C7's that I've seen recently (255 West 90th, 771 WEA, 267 West 89 and 857 WEA) and do agree that the maid's rooms do appear to be about a foot smaller in each direction than the third bedroom in 9B. Thus, point taken and I will revise my earlier statement to state that "the third bedroom isn't much bigger than many maid's rooms found in many C7's."

jojo: although i agree that it not much bigger (wider actually) than typical maids the extra 1-2 feet means the difference between fitting a bed in width-wise and not having it fit. Thus the small difference completely changes the usefulness of the room.

> I wonder what, if anything, the buyer used for comps.

same here! maybe the buyer is just laundering $ and doesn't really care about price?

From the pictures it's apparent that the owners put in some work--by taking down the walls around the maids room and the new kitchen.

BFGross: What was your impression of the quality of the work. It didn't look like the bookshelves in the LR even attach to the wall. Some of the other fixtures also look low-budget. Am I judging too harshly?

the renovation was not cheap for sure--creating the eat in breakfast room/office area, beautiful skim coating job, entirely new rewiring and smart av/cable/telecom system, new moldings, high end appliances and cabinetry, wine frig, very nice tasteful baths, and of course CAC.

Im surprised they never showed pictures of the baths actually they were that nice. The bookshelves weren't low budget, just odd looking. Its true the piece in the LR did not attach to the wall. Otherwise fixtures and appliances were all high end.

I was told they spent about 625k all in, and from walking through the place, I can easily believe that number.

jsw-to answer your question directly: i think the quality of the work was high. maybe not the very top, but not far off

While that price is aggressive, it is what it is. 7's are now officially 2.8mm+. Very well played by the sellers. Kudos to them.

walterh7, I agree with you on that. Assuming the selling price is anything close to $3.2MM, the seller's are to be applauded for shooting for the moon and getting it. If there is any "dealmaker of the week" award at the seller's broker's firm, this broker may just get it (regardless of who came up with the pricing strategy given the 'victory has a thousand fathers' theory). I wonder what a pristine C7 in prime UWS would go for that doesn't have any of the negatives (however minor they may be) of this apt. If this place does in fact go for $3.2MM, I wonder if anyone with such a pristine C7 might be tempted to try to find out.

jojo: there are gut reno C7's in places like the Beresford that go for lots more than this place.
What does that really prove? Its a broad range out there.

Further to there not being much available with lots of bedrooms, the sellers of http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/897220-coop-639-w-end-ave-upper-west-side-new-york are buying http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/846159-coop-246-west-end-avenue-lincoln-square-new-york. $1,000,000 or so more to get an extra half bath and larger rooms.