Would this require coop board approval?

It never hurts to ask.

Home Depot charges 3-4x what it should cost to instlall a floor

I cannot imagine you could replace your floors without board approval. Remember, you may need to replace/repair the subfloor as well--that is certainly not a 'cosmetic' job. The built-ins prob wouldn't require approval.

How about staining and glossing the existing floors? They are parquet so I am not sure if a refinish is possible.

If just staining and glossing (polyurethaning) the floor, --and even sanding as well, which I recommend as it can make a wonderful difference -- would generally not need board approval. i have done this in several co-ops without any other shareholders knowing, and it was completely legit. These are definitely cosmetic, non-altering jobs. But again, you should make sure with your board, as each one is different.

If you went up to MATTS CO-OP BOARD for permission you would need their approval plus permission from the FDA,CDC,NYPD,FDNY AND MAYORS OFFICE.

MIBNYC: Shut up already.

Jennieyax82: The answer is absolutely yes, you must have board approval. For two specific reasons.

The first reason is that *if* your building was built before 1980 (whether co-op or condo), you will have to have an asbestos check on both the floor material, but more importantly the mastic attaching the underside of the floor to the subfloor. Most common to find is a black tarry mastic used at the time called "Bulldog" which does, in fact, contain asbestos. This asbestos, however, is NOT friable. So hopefully, if that is the unfortunate case, the floor must be properly removed, but does not require further abatement procedures than that.

Second, the crucial approval of the type and installation of soundproofing underneath the flooring you choose is of concern as well, and that must be pre-defined and approved.

wow. had no idea that changing floors would be such an undertaking.

Now you know.

Jennie:
I had the same reno installed in the kitchen of my former Manhattan co-op, back in the mid-1990's.
The new floor and custom cabinet/breakfast bar were approved by the Board because I employed a licensed and insured contractor for the job.
(mastonjones correctly describes the issues involved for the floor replacement.)

It was a nice addition to the apartment and although I had a square dining area, I did not use the:
"Square room, round table" advice currently on display on the streeteasy experts' design blog.
I like oval dining tables. No Board approval needed.

Yes, also the board wants to know who is completed the work and to make sure they are licensed and insured. matsonjones is correct

selanow: It must be an ESP thing. We were thinking the same thoughts and I just typed faster than you.

"selya". O.K.

Jennieyax82,
Yes, installing new floors is quite a different experience than refinishing the floors. Since you expressed interest in just a refinish job, it might be prudent if you were to weigh the two options, and see what would work best for you, both financially and logistically. Refinishing can make a world of difference, and if you get someone good, your floors will look like new. On the other hand, if you just don't like the parque floor itself (which I COMPLETELY understand, I hate parque personally), then new flooring might be the best way to go. Your best bet would be to get some estimates (3 or 4) from different hardwood flooring refinishers and also contractors. Find out how they compare in terms of price and also scope of work. It may very well be possible to, if installing new flooring, to just place this on TOP of your old parque. If this is feasible, it is often the most inexpensive/simple way to do it, and issues such as soundproofing might be able to be circumvented. These are all questions the contractor and coop board will help you to answer. On the other hand, if you can live with the parque, a good refinishing job, which -- like painting the walls (something the coop will claim no responsibiliy for, financially or in terms of labor) -- does not need approval, might be totally satisfactory to you.

Sometimes your best bet is to go to the super, tell him "I want to do such-and-such", and ask if the insurance certificate will suffice. It never hurts to ask, but *who* you ask is important.

I agree that installing new floors is a biggie, and will likely need to be reviewed by the Board. Sanding & polyurethaning, not so much.

Do NOT ask the super. He may or may not have the right answer (most likely will NOT). Ask the management company. This is what you pay them for.

Re: SonyaD - It is not possible to lay new flooring directly on top of the existing flooring with no barrier between. Laying a new floor over the existing floor may (hopefully) reduce the amount of soundproofing required, however (as compared to laying a brand new floor on the bare building structure). A silver lining to doing this is that you neither have to pay for the demolition of the existing floor, nor once that is done, also pay to prepare the bare building structure (scraping old mastic, evening everything out, etc.). That could actually be a savings of many thousands of dollars! The minus is that laying a new floor over the existing floor will raise your floor by about 3/4" (or so), and your contractor will have to carefully shave the floor around the front door to make sure it works properly, and also in any areas where the new wood floor has a threshold leading to tile, such as a kitchen or bath.

Re: Isle of Lucy - All requests such as this, in any co-op or condo (unless self managing), go to the management company, and then on the respective board, back to the management company, and back to the shareholder/owner. A building superintendent/engineer can neither provide verifiable information nor approval.

Thanks all. These inquiries are for a prospective purchase of a 550 sq ft alcove studio. Living in a coop is new for me and am unfamiliar with the approval process and would like to avoid it where i can. Can anyone provide references for the work that I would like to get done? refinishing the parquet floors throughout the entire apt, possibly laying kitchen tile over the parquet in the very small kitchen area and building cabinetry/breakfast bar combo? Any idea how much this would cost me?

Jennieyax82

Here are your choices and things to consider

1. You can sand stain and poly your existing look if it has not been done many times. It depends on the condition of your floor
2. If the existing floor is solid to the floor you can install new wood flooring on top and use it as a subfloor then you might need to cut down all your doors as the floor could be to high. If the front door needs to be cut it could be a problem as yr building will not let you
3. You can rip up the old floor and install a new sub floor and new wood floor, still could have to trim the doors
4. You can rip up the existing floor and install a pre finished floor right to the subfloor

If you do not refinish the floor keep in mind you will need to replace the base molding

I would not use Home Depot. Email me at primerenovations@mac.com and I will give you my floor guy.
To see his work: www.primerenovationsnyc.com.

Jeff

One more thing.

The chances are very good that you do not need board approval but you do have to let the management company know what you want to do. Each building has different requirements. For example they might require you to install soundproofing under your new floor

@matsonjones-
No, of course I did not mean that laying new floor on top was a simple "slap down" job or anything like that. I just mentioned that this general route was a possibility, and one that can sometimes be simpler/cheaper. I didn't go into the specifics, such as the fact that ceiling height is effectively lowered minimally. Thanks for mentioning some other info about this process :)

@Jennieyax82-
From your last post, it seems like you are leaning towards the sanding/staining/poly method for most of the apartment, while tiling over the hardwood the kitchen. This sounds like a reasonable way to go. Primer05 gave you good options. I'm not familiar with placing tile over the parque floor and not sure if this is a good idea... Primer05? Do you have any idea about this? Doesn't seem very stable what with the potential shifting/buckling/warping of the wood parque tiles underneath a ceramic floor...?

Sonya,

I did forget to mention that I do not like the idea of installing tile on top of wood flooring. It isn't much to remove the wood floor and install a Durock subfloor to accept the tile

Primer05: Again - back to the same problem.

If the wood floor is removed - any of it - officially speaking, Jennieyax82 has to have an asbestos inspector perform a proper test on both the floor material and the mastic attaching the underside of the floor to the subfloor. If the unfortunate case is that asbestos is found, that portion of the floor still must be properly removed.

Primer05,
Yeah, that's what I thought. I hadn't seen it before, and it didn't seem like a good idea, so I'm not surprised that it isn't SOP.

:)

Matsonjones,

That is not necessarily true. That depends on the buildings rules.

Primer05: The building rules have absolutely nothing whatsoever to do or say regarding asbestos abatement.

This is a city law/state law issue. I refer you to H. A. Bader Consultants in NYC. You might consider having a discussion with them directly for further information. Richard Massari there is an expert on the subject.

You may need to update yourself on recent changes in the asbestos abatement law.

This is for a purchase that i'm waiting to go to contract on. I am trying to avoid a lengthy approval process and want to renovate as quickly as possible so that I don't need to pay for two homes.

Anyone have any ideas on where I can go for a custom built cabinet/breakfast far?

Jennieyax82: Primer05 is well known on these boards for his work, or for knowing and recommending others who might be a good fit. I would start with him as a source....

Jennieyax82,
A lengthy approval process is almost inevitable. Don't worry though, as long as you have a good broker (both mortgage and RE), and a good lawyer, the process will go as smoothly as possible, barring no unforeseen hiccups and provided that you have all your ducks in a row.

You seem to be a little new at the renovation part too. Your GC, provided you have done your research and feel confident in having picked a good one, will take care of your custom cabinet/breakfast bar. You will work with this person, along with your designer and architect for the whole job if you need one, to get the entire job, floors and whatever else, done. Were you thinking of doing each piece of the work separately and by yourself?

Matsonjones,

There are many many different laws and rules on the books and you are correct in what you are saying, however, most buildings and the their architects do not require that you get an asbestos report for minimal work, which a kitchen floor would be under. I am not saying that is right or wrong its just the way it is.

I'd be shocked if your co-op did not want an alteration agreement filled out for even just sanding and staining your floors.
Your building may have requirements for sealing around the doors as the dust is unbelievable, or may have a thing against smelly oil based stain and sealers.

It's not approval, more like notification.
It's better for you too, it forces your contractor to have insurance and name you and hold you harmless against their work, always a good thing.

Building managing agent is the one to ask, not the super.
That's the one who's name is on the maintenance bill.

Many supers clearly DO have the right answer. You have to know your super. If he's nothing more than an administrator, then of course go to the management company. If he's a guy who truly understands how your building operates, who knows his way around a boiler, an elevator, plumbing, carpentry, and electricity, then he is indeed your go-to guy for the answer.

Know Your Super.

While SOME supers MIGHT, ALL building managers WILL have the right answer.
It's just a phone call.

truthskr10: "While SOME supers MIGHT, ALL building managers WILL" - yup.

And, in addition, the supper can't approve anything whatsoever, so it's all wasted breath anyway.

*super*

"And, in addition, the supper can't approve anything whatsoever, so it's all wasted breath anyway."

And don't think that just because you told the super, you've "informed" the "building".

Takeaway from all this: LEAVE THE SUPER OUT OF IT.

I would get in touch with your managing agent. When I was preparing to re-do the kitchen before moving into my new co-op, I found out that the building had a "decoration agreement" that applied to what I wanted to do. This was much less cumbersome than the alteration agreement.

If building staff won't interrupt work my vote is always risk having to beg for forgiveness rather than asking permission.

There no pro and all cons to that.
First of all, it's not really about permission, more about notification.
They are not going to reject the job.
Second, why have someone do work that might not provide or have an insurance certificate/indemnification holding you and the co-op harmeless from damage, thereby, making you liable.
Third,the sanding and grinding can be quite obnoxious to neighbors who will deal with it during asigned hours of work,which are specifically stated on decorating/alteration agreements.
Usually M-F 9-4pm, or something close to that.
Passive agressive neighbors are the worst thing to encourage.

All you will need are the following;
1) A minor alteration/decoration agreement (prob 3 to 4 pages) signed by you and the contractor.
2) An indemnification certificate naming you, the co-op, and the management company submitted by the contractor.(Any legit one does these all day long)
3) Copy of the estimate and scope of work (1 page by contractor)
4) Notification of a start date and aprox end date of the job.

That's it. It's nothing.

I mean maybe if you call a plumber to change the flapper in your toilet, who would notice.
But this? It so not worth it.

Just curious. If this was a condo, would you still need board/management approval to do any construction or work in the apartment whether it's sanding and staining floors or completely replacing the floors?

lovetocook: absolutely. zero difference.