Contractor Issues

all the numbers seems to be inflated by the magnitude of 10X.

if he's almost done and there are no major defects, let him walk. not being able to estimate the the job by such a huge margin is his problem not yours.

Ouch. But really not that hard to go onto home hardwares site and look.

Just start putting things in writing to him. Start with> Please send me an itemized list of costs.

He said he doesn't give out itemized line by line breakdown of material. He claims not to have charged me the 12% contractor fee and says he passed over all his discounts. But then I am confused why he can't even tell me how much compound cost, sheet rock cost etc. How did he pull out those numbers if he doesn't have receipts to show me?

I'm tempted to let him walk, but we're at the final stage.

This is why people arrange fixed-price jobs with contractors, that include this type of stuff... Time and material billing is tough if you do not build transparency or trust in advance.

I would disagree with ab_11218 that these are necessarily 10x what they should be -- but it's hard to tell without knowing more about the job. If you did a full gut reno at high quality, even for 600 sqft the door and wall material costs might reach these figures, though it seems a bit of a stretch.

Ask them to help you understand the totals in terms of per-unit costs. $4400 for door materials divided by 5 doors is $880/door fully equipped. If they're pedestrian materials, that's expensive; if they're nice, it's not. $5000 for wall materials divided by how many linear feet of wall constructed?

You will not get an itemized list to the detail of $6 for screws on 8/15 and $7 for a bucket of compound on 8/21.

If this spirals into something really ugly, read up on mechanics' liens and talk to your building management company; they will be very unhappy if a lien is filed against the building.

Roons, is his name Jose Luna, by any chance?

Thanks for your input, Uptown Joe. They are pedestrian normal items, nothing too high end. Just regular doors, hinges and what not.....but I will ask for per unit costs as opposed to itemized costs. For a guy who claims he passed on all his discounts and did not add a builder's surcharge on material, they just seem high.

And no Openhouse, this was not Jose Luna.

Yeah, he passed on all his discounts & did not add a builder's surcharge on material but he's really got you bent over that saw horse now, huh?

What was the total all in price for the work?

Keith Burkhardt
TBG

Roons,

Unless you have a contract with your GC stating you have to pay for materials thats on him. Was it a time and material project?

It was a flat labor charge and I was to pay for all materials. His initial labor charge was $12K (which he grossly underestimated). He has added in $3K in for extras and then brought in an electrician for $5K. So labor is now $20K. Fine.

I bought most of the fixtures on my own as well as appliances, cabinets etc. We agreed on hardwood flooring, tile and marble costs. So I was surprised to see another $10K for building material from Home Depot, for doors/molding, locks/hinges as stated above in my first post. His contract stated that he would cover all debris removal, but there is now a charge of $1440 for that. It's when I questioned all this that he got really upset. He said I was not appreciating all the effort & time he's put in, the discounts he's passed on, how much out of his way he's gone for me etc. etc.

If I'm paying for material, shouldn't I get to see an itemized breakdown of sorts, even on a per unit basis? I can't just hand over a check for $5000 for "undefined" building material, right? No matter how grateful I'm supposed to be....

i guess the original agree upon price was 60K?

i think he play a bait and switch, submitted a low bid to get this job, then ask for more at the end

pedestrian doors are under $200, prehung.

i paid $3K with labor to have approx that area sheet rocked, spackled earlier in the year.

for moldings, 3 1/2 inch, was $500 for a 1850 sq ft house. 3 1/2 inch casements around the windows and doors was also approx $1K.

nice door hardware is $20 - 50 per door.

10X is about right for a 600 sq ft 1 br.

tell him, no receipt, no tikky tikky. Or, give you a list of the exact items he purchased, and you can get the prices yourself. you can pay for materials, but at retail price.

mouldings and sheetrock are not expensive materials.

I swear everyone is a crook. The fact that he flipped out should tell you what he is doing. Trying to overcharge you, for what I assume is his mistake. too bad for him.

if he is threatening to "walk". let him. you can find someone else to finish the job. dont let a schedule or deadline govern your common sense. that is how you get, how did someone else put it, ... "bent over"?

Is this the same contractor whose $12K bid everyone said was unrealistic? http://streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/34646-big-price-difference-in-renovation-estimates

Possibly this guy really screwed up on the time required AND the costs. How happy are you with him & the work he has done? If you think he & the work are fine, what if you suggest that you pay him 50% of these charges & share the pain with him.

NWT, yes, it is the $12K guy! I've ended up paying about $20K now for labor since we had to use a licensed electrician for $5K and there were a few extra tasks that added $3K on.

Anyway, the latest is he IS going to show me every single receipt by next week. He claims he has charged me cost to the last penny, so I'll be sure to post up the details. When I told him the prices quoted on this board by ab_11218, he said those were not realistic prices for NYC. It's possible that I have really nice doors and hardware yet am unaware.

There was only a $10K balance left. I had held off paying it because I wanted to see the above receipts which basically added up to the remaining balance. But in the spirit of playing nice, I gave him $5K today to finish up the job and he said I can pay the rest of the $5K in the end when I'm completely happy with the job (and get these receipts).

His work is fine and I've been happy with everything till we reached this point this week. I didn't think receipts for material would cause all this trouble. There's also a charge for debris removal of $1440 on his invoice even though his contract states it is included which I questioned...but have got no resolution on either.

To be continued...

A somewhat off topic renovation question, when using a contractor quoting only labor, would I need to pay EVERY material separately?
I am aware I am responsible for all "real" materials like cabinets, floors, tiles etc.
How about basic things like nails, grout, plaster?

Tbontb,

When I write up my proposal I will say "install owner supplied toilet, install owner supplied medicine cabinet, etc. I always pay for all the setting materials: sheetrock, screws, track, studs etc. The client pays for the finishes unless otherwise discussed.

Thanks Primer05, so the key is to have everything in writing for clarity.

prices quoted are from Home Depot, so there's no excuses.

sounds a good deal for molding, baseboard, and casement from homedepot

Tbontb,

Correct. Its better for both the owner and contractor

I am pulling up this thread again because there has been NO resolution in the last 3 weeks, and I'm still living out of boxes in a partially renovated apartment. I actually did hand over the $5K he asked for in good faith to continue the job, and he took it and STILL never showed up. Ugh! Wish I had not done that in retrospect, especially since he's accusing me now of being dishonest, greedy etc., when it's quite the opposite.

So in summary, I haven't received a single receipt to date. He keeps saying I owe him money and he won't come back till that's resolved. Yet, I see nothing from him in terms of a real or even fake receipt. He also says he did more than specified in the contract, but there were no change orders along the way, and just mystery amounts added to the final invoice (like the extra $3000)

I talked to Primer05 (Jeff) from here, and we decided we needed to give him an ultimatum. Continue the work while putting the receipts together and have his crew show back up in 48 hours, or I will file a complaint with the Dept of Consumer Affairs and Better Business Bureau for breech of contract.

He replied and told me he's putting a lien on my property and getting an arbitrator involved. I told him to kindly talk to his attorney. You need to show an unpaid balance before you can put a lien on a property, and I have paid what was in my original contract. So yeah, he's now playing dirty and this is getting nasty.

There should be a reality show for this type of stuff....but I just wanted to put this out there for others who are in the contractor selection process. Buyer BEWARE!

What a jerk. Sounds like a total crook from what you're describing. I have a wonderful contractor who I'd be happy to suggest to you but it looks like you've also reached out to Primer, who seems incredibly knowledgeable. Yours is not the first story I've heard lately of contractors trying to upcharge at the end of a project. And the whole 'I've bent over backwards for you boo-hoo' thing is such a crock. From what you've described this guy has made YOU bend over backwards. Sorry you gave him any earnest money--shoulda kept the whole 10G til he finished the damnned job.

Yeah, bramstar, I'm quickly learning. A few things I could have done better is explicitly state:
1) Itemized receipts have to be provided for all material costs
2) Change orders have to be submitted for any out-of-scope work PRIOR to the work being done.

I'm sharing my story so others can hopefully benefit from my ordeal and not make the same oversights. I really have to give kudos to Primer05 (Jeff) who is not only a valuable asset on this board, but who has reached out to personally to provide me with advice and even offered to find someone else to finish up the job if need be. So yeah, there are SOME good contractors out there....you just have to have a tight contract and do your due diligence.

I'm so sorry to hear that you're still having problems with this JERK. Yes, Primer is terrific. Maybe when you get this situation resolved, you can post that A-hole's name so nobody else makes the same mistake.

Side question - similar renovation and assuming labor is 50K and materials are approximately 25K, how much would the interior designer's cost be? the interior designer's role - drawings for the contractor, spec out tiles, fixtures etc for the bathroom, color scheme for the entire apartment, placement of lights, kitchen design (for a new kitchen). Thanks.

Roons,
Indeed, primer05 is excellent. Very helpful on this board and I'm using him for a renovation right now. Glad he was able to help you with advice. We are doing a lot of work and I'm thankful he's my contractor on it. Hopefully I can post a full report when it's finished. Good luck with your project.