Harlem vs Williamsburg

where in Harlem?

Easy.....the newly invigorated Harlem is in Manhattan and Manhattan = $$$. Keep in mind all of the changes that Harlem is going through and those on the horizon (ie. $7 Billion Columbia expansion, Major league Baseball tower, 125th street rezoning, hotels and retail moving in, very strong transportation options, etc., etc.). Good luck with your decision.

There are several properties below 125th. We are looking at 3rd & 125 and 7th & 116. Those still ok?

I would probably try staying on the west side....but that's just me. Note, that staying below 125th street is fine but there are plenty of viable options just above 125th street.

I prefer West Harlem.
Great transportation, many parks and almost no projects. There are still some empty shells, but they would be refurbished in no time.
My favirite part is a packet bwn 110 and 125 & east of morningside Park to Frederick Douglass Blvd./ Some streets till Lenox Ave. Though I would stay away from noicy double streets like 116 and 125.

Area around Marcus Garvey Park is great with it's townhouses converted in to condos.
And yes, there are many very charming blocks above 125 str.

whats the diff between west and east Harlem in terms of development? Also, will the mall on FDR push through?

Neither

I buy my investments in the 150s on the west side or jst east of Broadway. I tend to not go as far east as Amsterdam. So far, this has worked out. The reason I, personally, do not invest in Williamsburg (though it does have more services) is because I think there is way too much development and a huge run up in pricing that is not sustainable. So far, my properties in Washington Heights/Hamilton Heights have appreciated steadily and nicely. And the P/E ratio works for me.

Also, the properties are big and oftenhave beautiful detail to restore. Which, to me, is as good as Brownstone Brooklyn.

Stay in Manhattan.

deja vu!

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/2992-central-harlem-or-williamsburg

I wanted to wait to post my answer to see what others wrote. Full disclosure, I own a condo in Hamilton Heights (West Harlem). I can't comment too much on Williamsburg as I am not very well educated on the neighborhood, it does seem to be limiting to rely on just one subway line in the neighborhood. In West Harlem I have easy access to the A and D express (From 145th st - 59th st typically about 12-15 minutes of travel time) as well as the B, C and 1 local lines. The 3 line is also accessible from 145th St, but less so from the Broadway area.

There are still some great deals to be found. If you ignore the future possibilities for just a moment (regarding the 125th Street and Columbia University rezonings) I can say first hand how much I have started seeing my neighborhood change in just a few years. Retail still has a long way to go, but the original poster indicated a 10 year horizon, in which case, I see tremendous potential. Columbia is buying in a northward progression near and along Broadway. There is a feeling in the air that the entire strip of near and on Broadway from 110th to the 160's will eventually become the extended campus over time (purely speculation on my part..but it sure feels this way).

My parents thought I was crazy when I told them I wanted to buy in Harlem but they have come around when they saw how the neighborhood has changed and continues to change.

I don't know enough, but I would say harlem just instinctively. Williamsburg seems to have new condos going up left and right and less services/connectivity.

julia, VVerain, excellent comments, really. As tenemental pointed out, this exact discussion was done before, but to throw my change in here again, if you're looking at it purely in terms of investment, Harlem is probably a safer bet. From an "actually living there" standpoint though, I much prefer Williamsburg. I do think both areas are a bit overpriced as of right now (pricing is factoring in future appreciation a bit already), but I do think you'll come out ahead in either 'hood as long as you're thinking long-term.

I live in E Harlem & love it. Trains always crap out going to Brooklyn.....I'm near the Park & I can always get a cab....

Harlem is probably cheaper at this point, but Williamsburg may have more choices. Also, Williamsburg, much like Harlem, has many different areas, Northside, Southside, South Williamsburg and the waterfront... very different from each other. If youo work downtown, W'burg, midtown...maybe Harlem.

From a purely aesthetic perspective, I've found that Harlem has more desirable new dev building EXTERIORS (unless you're a Hot Karl fan) mixed in with the classic brownstones that really give some neighborhoods a very village-y feel at times. Williamsburg, with all it's new development, is going to be a complete 180 from that charm that pockets of Harlem have.

That said, if you're looking for creature comforts then the finishes in most Williamsburg buildings are much nicer and on par with most lower-Manhattan new condo finishes (lacquered/glass cabinetry, flooring, integrated appliances, etc.). I feel like condo interiors in Harlem are more comparable to rental finishes - meaning that they're new and nice for now, but lack any real style.

When real estate starts to fall isn't it always the outlining areas that fall the fastest and the hardest. Unless I'm wrong that would be Harlem and Williamsburg.

Julia, I am not sure that is always true. If families want to stay in the city but cannot afford a 2-3 bedroom even with price drops they will be forced to look in what were once considered fringe. I see a lot of families way uptown because they know they simply will never be ble to snag that 3 bedroom below even 125th st. And they want to not be a commuter train ride/far away from their families. So, while I do not think these areas will appreciate at a head jerking speed I do not see them falling. As I have posted, I have only experienced slow, steady appreciation on my properties about 145th St.

Williamsburg's cultural venues, clubs, restaurants and youth culture is still burgeoning. If you like old buildings go to Harlem, Williamsburg is all about the new.

If you are looking for appreciation in 10 years then hands down Harlem. You have Columbia expansion, 125th street rezoning, Harlem Piers opening (which includes ferry service to New Jersey), City College expanding. I personally think Hamilton Heights/Sugar Hill is the nicest place in Harlem - that is west Harlem from 140th to 150th west of Frederick Douglass to the Hudson.

Check out Strivers Row and St. Nicholas Park District. Beautiful Brownstones and townhouses that to me are still undervalued. The area has new buildings and some new retail.

If you still need convincing take a stroll near the new Harlem restaurant row in Viva (Viaduct Valley). At 12Avenue and 135th Street 5 new upscale restaurants have opened or will be opening soon.

Good luck

The Harlem-is-in-Manhattan-and-so-it-is-the better-investment rationalization is not only arrogant but also ignorant. Not every neighborhood in Manhattan lives up to the expectations. How many people will buy in Chinatown over Brooklyn Heights, Park Slope, or Williamsburg just because it's in Manhattan? Comparing apples to oranges. Buy in the neighborhood you love and can call home.