What happens in the winter to CC's
Started by dco
over 17 years ago
Posts: 1319
Member since: Mar 2008
Discussion about
Just wondering how much the price in oil this will effect buildings operating costs this winter. If things stay the same it will cost almost double to heat the building. Will this cost be past on in Common Charges being increased. If any one thinks that gas is high, imagine what it's going to cost in heating this winter.
Change we can believe in! President Obama will change the price of No.2 residential heating oil from 300 cents per gallon to one euro per liter.
dco good point expect our rents to continue to go up
Thats why buildings reserve funds are very important so we as landlords can keep raising rents.
Absolutely, higher energy prices will impact common charges unless your coop locked in a multi-year agreement on fuel oil.
Keep in mind we had a relatively mild winter so next year the increase could be significant.
I was recently talking to some friends who are home owners that use oil and said that if these price's remain that it will double their cost to heat their homes. That's not good for anybody. One said this would cost him an extra $4-5000 for the season. That's a tough hit. He said he is going to have to cut back seriously on many other things. There are actually going to be people who make decent money unable to pay to heat their house. That's going to really hurt the economy 12 months from now. Just when you would think the economy should be showing sign of improving it's going to experience another drag. Something to think about.
As treasurer of my condo, I asked the owners to consider an increase in common charges last year to prepare for signficant increases in energy costs (I started my career working in commodities trading so my gut instinct was to expect large increases). The owners agreed with me and the increase was passed. I also asked owners to seal the areas around the air conditioners and to try to keep the heat at mild settings this winter. So far this has worked out well for us, but I am still concerned about next season.
I believe that the increased carrying costs will not result in a similar increases in rents. The market will not bear the entire increased costs. This will result in reduced profits for landlords of market rate apartments. Ironically landords of regulated apartments will have the best opportunity to pass along these costs. If your basis in the apartment you own is low and you are not higly leveraged you will continue to make out great renting it out.
If maintenance goes up to account for rising energy costs, rents can go up, too. It all moves together. And yes, of course charges will go up. Not many co-ops/condos that are prudently managed would dip into a reserve fund to pay for heating.
What it should do is cause buildings to audit their heat usage, meaning seeing if valves work and if heat is being wasted. No point heating to the point where windows have to be opened when the oil cost $1000 a gallon.
Heating of ones home is going cause a crippling effect on the economy. Just when you think the economy will recover. This is going to drive us into much deeper recession then most predict.
http://www.optimum.net/Finance/AP/Article?articleId=423760&categoryId=18
Pretty remarkable increasing trend in prices:
http://www.mass.gov/eea/energy-utilities-clean-tech/home-auto-fuel-price-info/historical-heating-oil-prices.pdf
I hadn't noticed at first that this thread started back during the $147-a-barrel-for-oil days!
One question: do most coops handle heating for the entire building as a block? You don't have separate meters installed for each apartment?
And if the co-op centrally manages heat, is there a uniform temperature? How is it voted on?
Almost every building has one or two boilers where oil or gas is burned to produce steam or hot water. The steam or hot water is then conveyed via vertical risers to radiators throughout the building.
Since each apartment is served by multiple risers, and each riser supplies multiple apartments, there's no way to meter the steam or hot water.
Steam conveys heat much more efficiently than hot water, and fills the risers instantly without being pumped, but can't be controlled as easily at the radiator.
The exception to that kind of system would be the very rare building where apartments are heated with electric radiators.
Also, Con Ed distributes centrally-produced steam to ~2,000 buildings below 96th St. via ~100 miles of mains. Each of those buildings then uses the steam for space heating, for heating hot water, and some for central air. There's one meter per building.
Many single-family homeowners are able to lock in oil prices with their heating oil suppliers before the season starts in August or September with a season-long contract. The suppliers in turn are able to lock in the price they pay from the distributor (the middleman between refinery and supplier).
Are multi-unit buildings able to do the same?
Yes, why not?