Wanted to get advice from some experts... It's been a while since I've been on the discussion board here. This site was extremely useful in my husband's search for a home a few years ago. We bought a fixer-upper - a two-family townhouse that we planned to convert into a one-family home in Brooklyn with a gut renovation. Nearly two years ago we went through the demolition phase. Since then we have... [more]
Wanted to get advice from some experts... It's been a while since I've been on the discussion board here. This site was extremely useful in my husband's search for a home a few years ago. We bought a fixer-upper - a two-family townhouse that we planned to convert into a one-family home in Brooklyn with a gut renovation.
Nearly two years ago we went through the demolition phase. Since then we have been waiting anxiously for permit approval for the rest of the renovation plans. After nearly 2 years and several DOB meetings attended by our architect and expeditor, we still have unapproved plans. Each time there seems to be a new request or requirement - a tweak to the plan or proof of something existing in the structure in the mid-1900s.
We knew it would take a while but now we're wondering if we are just naive.
Could it be our architect? Either negligence/sloppiness in his plans? Could someone at the DOB have something against him and purposefully be making it difficult?
Would it help to contact our regional representative?
We've actually received several offers from people (unsolicated) interesting in buying the house from us. We don't want to sell. Could these people cause us problems somehow?
Is it worth getting a lawyer?
Just want to know what others would do... Our excitement over finally owning a home has dwindled into regret that we ever decided to buy in the first place.
Thanks for any tips.
[less]
Response by Primer05
over 11 years ago
Posts: 2103
Member since: Jul 2009
MC33433,
Usually the expeditor should be able to get this done. Do you have any contact with them, what type of renovation are you doing?
Ignored comment.
Unhide
Response by mc33433
over 11 years ago
Posts: 72
Member since: Apr 2011
Thanks, Primer.
Last month we asked the expeditor who responded that we weren't his client, but our architect was.... But we should probably reach out to them again, as we're not sure that the architect is being completely truth with us.
It's a full gut renovation. Everything has been demolished already on the inside. All that's left is the four walls and beams. So really a major renovation.
It's been little things each time we get denied, doesn't seem like deal breakers. It just seems odd that every time for 2 years there are these new little issues instead of addressing them all upfront..
Ignored comment.
Unhide
Response by Primer05
over 11 years ago
Posts: 2103
Member since: Jul 2009
I am surprised you were able to demo without permits. Has anyone told you what the holdup is? Who is the expeditor? if you dont want to say here email me at primerenovations@mac.com. I have worked with most of them and might be able to help. No promises but I can try
Ignored comment.
Unhide
Response by Belgariad
over 11 years ago
Posts: 58
Member since: Jan 2011
Perhaps you just needed a new contractor? A friend's multi family house's plumbing were not done to code and they ended firing the original contractor, get a new one to redo and finish the rest of the renovation. It took them over 2 years because of that. Also check out brownstoner.com.
Ignored comment.
Unhide
Response by Primer05
over 11 years ago
Posts: 2103
Member since: Jul 2009
Belgariad,
What does getting approvals from the building dept have to do with a contractor?
Ignored comment.
Unhide
Response by nyc10023
over 11 years ago
Posts: 7614
Member since: Nov 2008
Are you using the new HUB system?
Ignored comment.
Unhide
Response by nyc10023
over 11 years ago
Posts: 7614
Member since: Nov 2008
If not, a competent architect and expediter working together (if your plans are not radical) should be able to get approval within 3 months.
Ignored comment.
Unhide
Response by mc33433
over 11 years ago
Posts: 72
Member since: Apr 2011
We are very happy with our contractor, who is equally frustrated with the delays in permits.
Correct me if I am wrong (not very experience with this) but the architect and the expeditor are responsible for the filings with the DOB and the permit approvals.
I don't know if this is the new HUB system, but when they do the filings, they do online uploads of all the files and then they schedule a meeting.
Primer, we had permit approvals for the demolition - it was a permit for "PARTIAL INTERIOR AND EXTERIOR DEMO OF A 2 FAMILY HOUSE." That was approved and completed.
It's the further permits for the jobs to be done that we have yet to receive.
Is a new architect the solution? Then I guess we start from scratch with plans and submissions.
Is there any action against the current architect for the time lapsed? I don't believe our plans are radical.
Ignored comment.
Unhide
Response by alanhart
over 11 years ago
Posts: 12397
Member since: Feb 2007
What neighborhood is this in?
Ignored comment.
Unhide
Response by Primer05
over 11 years ago
Posts: 2103
Member since: Jul 2009
Mc,
Who is the Expeditor? They know the codes better than architects and if it isn't getting through the dept of buildings than I would have another Expeditor look at the plans. What is the architect saying?
Ignored comment.
Unhide
Response by gothamsboro
over 11 years ago
Posts: 536
Member since: Sep 2013
I second alanhart's question.
Ignored comment.
Unhide
Response by nyc10023
over 11 years ago
Posts: 7614
Member since: Nov 2008
Ok - that is the answer right there. The Hub system (online) is causing tremendous amounts of delay. You would be better off canceling the filing, and refiling at the local borough office. The hub system has some extremely one inexperienced examiners without oversight.
Ignored comment.
Unhide
Response by nyc10023
over 11 years ago
Posts: 7614
Member since: Nov 2008
The manhattan based hub examiners also seem to have a completely different set of demands from the guys in the local office.
Ignored comment.
Unhide
Response by nyc10023
over 11 years ago
Posts: 7614
Member since: Nov 2008
I know this from my personal unhappy experience with the HUB system.
Ignored comment.
Unhide
Response by mc33433
over 11 years ago
Posts: 72
Member since: Apr 2011
Wow, NY10023 (that's my old zip code! I used to live on West 68th Street between Columbus & CPW in a 5th floor walkup....), is that really the case with the new HUB system? I wonder why our expeditor doesn't know that.... Is that the case in Brooklyn as well?
For those asking, this is in Greenpoint...
Ignored comment.
Unhide
Response by nyc10023
over 11 years ago
Posts: 7614
Member since: Nov 2008
Yes. I have a property in brooklyn, stuck in the hub system. We realized this too late. Expeditor had a similar project, filed after mine, approved and under construction.
Ignored comment.
Unhide
Response by mc33433
over 11 years ago
Posts: 72
Member since: Apr 2011
Wow... My husband is meeting with them tomorrow (architect and expeditor). I will definitely have him bring this up.
How long has it been in the Hub system?
I wish I knew projected timelines. If the Hub thing gets cleared up and they approve later this month for example versus starting over and waiting another 3-6 months....
Ignored comment.
Unhide
Response by nyc10023
over 11 years ago
Posts: 7614
Member since: Nov 2008
The hub system was new when you filed. Mine has been in the system for over a year.
Ignored comment.
Unhide
Response by mc33433
over 11 years ago
Posts: 72
Member since: Apr 2011
Of the latest request from the DOB, they want the "deed or proof of the name of the owner" of the property next to ours prior to 1961. Of course ACRIS starts at 1966. Isn't that ridiculous?
Ignored comment.
Unhide
Response by rb345
over 11 years ago
Posts: 1273
Member since: Jun 2009
It is unconventional, and probably not done that often but if you go to the Department
of Buildings with a suicide bomb strapped to your chest the employees will probably be
able to issue your permits on the spot
Ignored comment.
Unhide
Response by nyc10023
over 11 years ago
Posts: 7614
Member since: Nov 2008
MC - I had a similar (and even more ridiculous) request from the DOB. Get the expediter to go down to the records at the DOB, and make copies of the microfilm records. The borough office would not have asked for this kind of proof. Please document all this, and send to your local city councillor and borough president.
Ignored comment.
Unhide
Response by nyc10023
over 11 years ago
Posts: 7614
Member since: Nov 2008
MC - I had a similar (and even more ridiculous) request from the DOB. Get the expediter to go down to the records at the DOB, and make copies of the microfilm records. The borough office would not have asked for this kind of proof. Please document all this, and send to your local city councillor and borough president.
Ignored comment.
Unhide
Response by mc33433
over 11 years ago
Posts: 72
Member since: Apr 2011
Thanks to everyone that responded. We finally got approval this week. They finally escalated things, called an emergency meeting, and after 2 years we now have permits. Thank God! I'm sure I'll have dozens more questions on here as we start to really get into the renovation, which I thought was supposed to be the hard part.
MC33433,
Usually the expeditor should be able to get this done. Do you have any contact with them, what type of renovation are you doing?
Thanks, Primer.
Last month we asked the expeditor who responded that we weren't his client, but our architect was.... But we should probably reach out to them again, as we're not sure that the architect is being completely truth with us.
It's a full gut renovation. Everything has been demolished already on the inside. All that's left is the four walls and beams. So really a major renovation.
It's been little things each time we get denied, doesn't seem like deal breakers. It just seems odd that every time for 2 years there are these new little issues instead of addressing them all upfront..
I am surprised you were able to demo without permits. Has anyone told you what the holdup is? Who is the expeditor? if you dont want to say here email me at primerenovations@mac.com. I have worked with most of them and might be able to help. No promises but I can try
Perhaps you just needed a new contractor? A friend's multi family house's plumbing were not done to code and they ended firing the original contractor, get a new one to redo and finish the rest of the renovation. It took them over 2 years because of that. Also check out brownstoner.com.
Belgariad,
What does getting approvals from the building dept have to do with a contractor?
Are you using the new HUB system?
If not, a competent architect and expediter working together (if your plans are not radical) should be able to get approval within 3 months.
We are very happy with our contractor, who is equally frustrated with the delays in permits.
Correct me if I am wrong (not very experience with this) but the architect and the expeditor are responsible for the filings with the DOB and the permit approvals.
I don't know if this is the new HUB system, but when they do the filings, they do online uploads of all the files and then they schedule a meeting.
Primer, we had permit approvals for the demolition - it was a permit for "PARTIAL INTERIOR AND EXTERIOR DEMO OF A 2 FAMILY HOUSE." That was approved and completed.
It's the further permits for the jobs to be done that we have yet to receive.
Is a new architect the solution? Then I guess we start from scratch with plans and submissions.
Is there any action against the current architect for the time lapsed? I don't believe our plans are radical.
What neighborhood is this in?
Mc,
Who is the Expeditor? They know the codes better than architects and if it isn't getting through the dept of buildings than I would have another Expeditor look at the plans. What is the architect saying?
I second alanhart's question.
Ok - that is the answer right there. The Hub system (online) is causing tremendous amounts of delay. You would be better off canceling the filing, and refiling at the local borough office. The hub system has some extremely one inexperienced examiners without oversight.
The manhattan based hub examiners also seem to have a completely different set of demands from the guys in the local office.
I know this from my personal unhappy experience with the HUB system.
Wow, NY10023 (that's my old zip code! I used to live on West 68th Street between Columbus & CPW in a 5th floor walkup....), is that really the case with the new HUB system? I wonder why our expeditor doesn't know that.... Is that the case in Brooklyn as well?
For those asking, this is in Greenpoint...
Yes. I have a property in brooklyn, stuck in the hub system. We realized this too late. Expeditor had a similar project, filed after mine, approved and under construction.
Wow... My husband is meeting with them tomorrow (architect and expeditor). I will definitely have him bring this up.
How long has it been in the Hub system?
I wish I knew projected timelines. If the Hub thing gets cleared up and they approve later this month for example versus starting over and waiting another 3-6 months....
The hub system was new when you filed. Mine has been in the system for over a year.
Of the latest request from the DOB, they want the "deed or proof of the name of the owner" of the property next to ours prior to 1961. Of course ACRIS starts at 1966. Isn't that ridiculous?
It is unconventional, and probably not done that often but if you go to the Department
of Buildings with a suicide bomb strapped to your chest the employees will probably be
able to issue your permits on the spot
MC - I had a similar (and even more ridiculous) request from the DOB. Get the expediter to go down to the records at the DOB, and make copies of the microfilm records. The borough office would not have asked for this kind of proof. Please document all this, and send to your local city councillor and borough president.
MC - I had a similar (and even more ridiculous) request from the DOB. Get the expediter to go down to the records at the DOB, and make copies of the microfilm records. The borough office would not have asked for this kind of proof. Please document all this, and send to your local city councillor and borough president.
Thanks to everyone that responded. We finally got approval this week. They finally escalated things, called an emergency meeting, and after 2 years we now have permits. Thank God! I'm sure I'll have dozens more questions on here as we start to really get into the renovation, which I thought was supposed to be the hard part.
Congratulations. Good luck with everything