Tired of open-floorplan/loft layout

It was just a matter of time before people started wising up.

In 2010, I moved from a true one-bedroom into a loft-like duplex with an open L-shaped mezzanine with a bedroom and a den.

We made it a year before we put up a wall and walled-off the bedroom.
I thought two levels would be enough that noise, light, etc. would not be an issue, even if one person was up working or watching TV, while the other wanted to sleep. Boy, was I wrong. During the first year, there were times I honestly hid in the bathroom for peace and quiet.

The designer we used for the renovation fought me tooth and nail on enclosing the bedroom. Could we just install glass? (No.) Put up a partial wall? (No.) Leave a gap at the top? (No.) How about a transom? (No.) A glass door? (No.)

Having a walled-off bedroom with a door is a necessity for peaceful cohabitation. At least it is for me. There are three other apartments with the same design as mine, and in every case, the owners have chosen to wall off the bedroom. It's just not practical to live in otherwise.

Open plan is much nicer/ Walling off makes spaces darker and feel more confined

Hi lad, Sounds like you've had exactly the kind of experience I'm writing about. Would you be able/willing to speak with me on the phone briefly for the story? Best, Kim

We rented a summer house that was "open concept" with the living room, dining room, and kitchen combined. We hated it because when different activities were going on simultaneously in these combined rooms, it was very chaotic. Also, people tended to walk around the combined rooms with food resulting in unnecessary messes. Maybe that's why some houses have family rooms in the basement!

We just purchased an apartment. After seeing various ways the same apartment had been configured in a building we liked, we chose the one that was NOT open concept. The only concession we made when renovating the kitchen was to widen its doorway.

Frankly, I can see removing some walls in those little row houses/brownstones where they made a maze of very tiny rooms. But this open concept is so an extreme it reminds me of the main floor layout of a log cabin back in pioneer days!

Hi Jelij13—great description. Would you be able/willing to talk briefly on the phone about your thoughts re: open floorplan? If so, please send me an email at kvelsey [at] observer.com. Best, Kim

Kim - you know that starting with your thesis and then searching for anecdotes to back it up is not really reporting... Feels like how all the Times trend pieces get started. Do you have any evidence for this (prevalence / price of loft closings vs. classic layout closings? % inventories? Building permits for demolition of walls vs. adding walls?)??

Recently moved from a 2br renovated loft apartment in Nomad to a traditional prewar 2br in the Beekman area. I hated never really being able to get away from the kitchen, especially when entertaining. Cooking odors also permeate upholstery and window treatments. There is just something so much more graceful about living in real rooms, and, having overnight guests is a joy when they have a real br and bath. I think the open concept thing is something of a fad. There is really nothing quite as lovely and conducive to good living as the bones inherent to classic New York apartments, many of which were designed by leading architects of the period.

I opened up/enlarged the kitchen and I couldn't be happier. I have no interest being stuck alone in the kitchen while I cook, either before or after guests/family arrive.

I live in a pre-war apartment downtown, and I love the layout and flow of my traditional apartment. That being said, I chuckle to learn that open living is a "fad." If it's a fad, it's lasted an awfully long time, and TriBeCa prices continue to rise (as do the prices of loft spaces all around the city), so I don't think it's a dying trend. Not to state the obvious, but people enjoy lofts because they offer vast, open, informal, malleable space. Parents can cook in the kitchen and simultaneously watch their children play or be part of a conversation that is taking place in the living room area. People can entertain large groups without crowded rooms, awkward clusters, and congested traffic patterns. "Rooms" feel larger because they are delineated by furniture rather than walls. Light is distributed more fluidly.

It's a little silly to conclude that people are moving away from open living because a couple erected a wall to conceal and privatize the only bedroom in the apartment, or because others simply prefer closed floor plans (btw, many open living spaces have private master and guest bedrooms and bathrooms, and some even have kitchen ventilation). Some people prefer traditional, and some people prefer more open space. Many can appreciate both. It always amuses me when journalists develop a story that feels "truthy" and then only seek out anecdotal evidence that supports the thesis.

As someone who has always preferred traditional layouts, I find myself amazed at how much I enjoy living in a space with a more open kitchen. Ours is a classic, prewar apartment in which the 'library' and living rooms were opened up, leaving the adjoining dining room intact (though its French doors make it also feel very open to the rest of the entertaining space).

Because our apartment was cut down from a classic 10 and lacks its original kitchen/maid's room, the current kitchen was created in a more central location. I really was skeptical about this at first, as I've always preferred a kitchen that is a bit more discreet and out of sight. However, I'm now very glad we didn't wall it up as I'd been tempted to do. We do a lot of entertaining and everyone loves to belly up to the long bar that separates the kitchen from the living room. Plus, our apartment's top draw is its light and views so the openness really helps accentuate that. The bedroom wing is separate and very private so it's best of both worlds.

>I opened up/enlarged the kitchen and I couldn't be happier. I have no interest being stuck alone in the kitchen while I cook, either before or after guests/family arrive.

Aboutready, what do you cook?

Opening up the the kitchen doesn't always make the apartment feel more spacious. In fact, in smaller apartments, it could have the opposite effect. One of our shareholders did just that -- jumped on the "open layout" bandwagon and tore down the walls in his beautifully laid-out prewar one bedroom -- "opened up" the foyer and the kitchen to the living room. What he got wasn't the airy feel of a "loft" but rather the dismal feel of a studio apartment. He ended up spending tens of thousands putting the walls back up, but sadly, sans the beautiful original woodwork that was lost during his "destruction".

I agree with NYCMatt. I had a friend who looked at this line of apartments. He opted for one without the open concept because it was a small apartment. Also, he had furniture that needed to stand against a wall. Eliminating the wall made it impossible to keep that furniture.

http://streeteasy.com/sale/642180-coop-444-east-84th-street-yorkville-new-york OPEN CONCEPT
http://streeteasy.com/sale/633993-coop-444-east-84th-street-yorkville-new-york SAME APT, NOT OPEN CONCEPT

It all depends on your needs/how you live, etc. I think half would say they like either style, with a fair number being willing to convert with a really well-designed kitchen of either style. With teenagers, pre-teens, the open kitchen is amazing.

If you want to see open concept taken to a ridiculous level, take a look at The Rutherford, 305 Second Ave. It's an old hospital that was cut up into lofts. You'll see duplexes and even triplexes with lots of square footage and zero privacy.

If you feel left alone because of a wall between you in the kitchen and your friends and family on the other side of that wall , the problem is you .

I have never been a fan of open concept kitchen either. I like to create an inviting dining room (adjacent to kitchen) where guests can gather around during food preparation. Glad that some people agree with me! I always thought I was the odd ball for preferring the cooking smell not to be absorbed into my sofa! Yuck...

Ed, clearly you don't cook in a kitchen with room for only one or two. Yes, in really large kitchens you can invite a couple of friends in to join you, but that's the exception, not even close to the rule for NYC. But thanks for casting personality aspersions based on someone not liking a tight galley kitchen.

>>>If you feel left alone because of a wall between you in the kitchen and your friends and family on the other side of that wall , the problem is you .<<<

Ed, the problem isn't the person trying to cook, it's the guests who for some reason ALWAYS insist in congregating in the kitchen, no matter how small and cramped...

Bramstar: Your guests like being with you . If you were a complainer they would not want to be near you. If the complaint was about feeling stuck by yourself, the problem would be you, not the wall.

My guests like being with me too. It's impossible to work in a 7x7 kitchen with more than two, at the most, people.

Kelee: I agree with you and I invite my guests to visit me in my home. I provide a comfortable place where we all feel happy to be together. I cook for them because I invited them into my home. I never complain about having them in my home. I have several homes: manhattan apartment, beach house in the hamptons, and others . My guests are always welcome and where there is a wall between the kitchen and dining area / living room, they can always walk into my kitchen and we talk while I cook. I bring out various appetizers, main courses, and coffee; throughout the meal. My guests are happy to be invited and none leave feeling that they were not welcome in my home. I certainly would not feel "stuck and left alone in the kitchen". It's my pleasure to have my friends and/or family enjoying my home. A wall between the kitchen does not prevent them from enjoying time with me. It's not as if they need a passport to travel between me in my kitchen, with only a wall standing between us.

Well, aren't you sanctimonious. I like everyone to be comfortable, and that's easier for me with an open kitchen. To each their own.

I guess it just depends on whether you're a Gertz Gal.

I think we are about to see a meltdown.

looks like you were able to get yourself under control. how grateful we all are.

She's obviously hied off to "her" beach house in the Hamptons for a long, restorative weekend.

I know I'm in the minority, but I prefer a wall between my kitchen and dining room. My place is art deco with dim, atmospheric chandeliers. I don't want my guests to see what's going on in the kitchen: pots boiling or roasting racks on the counter -- all with unattractive overhead lighting. I don't mind, and even love, coming out into the entertaining area with drinks and snacks -- all the while keeping the "magic" in the kitchen as private as practicable.

Honestly, I think its a matter of personal preference. Those who like an informal "open" atmosphere will want the open layout and will either purchase a place like that or have their space redone accordingly. Those who prefer a "classic" separate kitchen arrangement will gravitate to pre-war/mid-century building that provide that arrangement. In the end (sounding like a Republican sorry) the market will dictate. If enough buyers, especially at the high end decide they prefer a classic kitchen, that's what developers will provide. But for now, it appears open kitchens are continuing to rule. Of course, everyone could do the sensible thing that we do. Never cook at all and just use the kitchen as a feline feeding station.

Kim - can't wait to read the article. I can see the headline now: "Some People Prefer Open Kitchens, Some People Do Not".

I have a friend in Singapore who bought a large new luxury condomium there. The developer did something very interesting. Put one "open" kitchen with a breakfast bar open to the living room so people could socialize. However, the "real" kitchen was BEHIND that one (where the maids cook) so the sights and smells of real cooking remain hidden. LOL!!

c0c0 do you cook the deer in an open kitchen?

Fieldchester, do you cook the basement vermin in a toaster oven?

Does anyone else find it disturbing that NativeRestless feeds on felines?

I think it's rude for a host to still be cooking when guests arrive. Can't people manage their time anymore?

I think it's rude to serve people only tepid food. Seriously, 90% of food, particularly dinner items, are served warm. A cold buffet is ok in the summer, but only then. Matt, do you have a large supply of sterno? Or those tacky food warmers that desiccate the food. Great food is served freshly and usually minutes-before prepared.

This is why a good host knows how to manage their time and/or delegate responsibility to the household help.

How pretentious. And the first part makes no sense. A good host managing their time has nothing to do with guests showing up to a lovely plated meal without any effort by the host. And, not to be rude, although I am clearly going to be, you've never seemed like the type to have the funds or inclination to delegate things to the household help.

Apparently Streeteasy disagrees with aboutready on the open kitchen.
As does the New York Times: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/22/realestate/the-closed-kitchen-makes-a-comeback.html