Steve's Intentions (argument)???????

Ah, masters of arts. That makes much more sense.

Steve, corporate incomes are indeed constained by global GDP growth, basically by definition. Think about it - if corporate GDP grows faster than total GDP for a long time, it eventually becomes global GDP.

"Gearing" and mortgages are both forms of debt

Saying you deduct your mortgage interest at the effective tax rate means that you deduct proportionally across all tax brackets you hit. Do you really think this is true? Or does it reduce your income, beginning with your highest bracket (your marginal rate)? If it reduces your income so much that you no longer reach that bracket, you just deduct the rest at the rate for the next highest bracket (which is your new marginal rate). But I am just saying the same thing 3 or 4 other people said on this thread, so I don't expect you to suddenly understand.

What do you know anyway verain? According to steve you don't know what equity value or market cap is.

If anyone wants to see the initial argument put forth by Steve that made this postulation, "No matter how you slice it, renting is ALWAYS financially more beneficial over time than owning."

See: http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/3410-real-estate-is-a-bad-investment?comment_id=36007

Toward the middle of the first page of a crap-storm started by Steve:

verain
about 7 weeks ago
You can not compare the purchase of equity of corporations with the purchase of a home. This thread is based on a complete misunderstanding of investing markets. (not to mention the stipulations rig the equation, as per my other post: A+B > C+D IF, A>D and B>C)

1 - Purchased equity of companies in the stock market is levered at the outset, because the corporations in which shares are purchased have a capital structure inclusive of debt.

2 - Real estate is not a levered asset. Only as a construct of the purchase will the majority of buyers will lever their asset with a mortgage. The leverage amortizes, so in the long-run, the leverage decreases and eventually goes to zero, unless the owner refinances.

Increases in real estate prices are therefore not equivalent to returns on real investing in real estate. Home ownership is different than investing in real estate. And therefore, you can not compare home ownership with investing in the stock market.

Nice try Steve. Redo the math and come back to us in a couple of days.

and Steve:
stevejhx
about 7 weeks ago
verain, you missed the point.

1 - Purchased equity of companies in the stock market is levered at the outset, because the corporations in which shares are purchased have a capital structure inclusive of debt.

You need to take accounting.

2 - Real estate is not a levered asset.

??

3 - Take the same money and invest it in two competing asset classes. The results are set out above.

In fact, so accurate is my model that it's part of the definition of "imputed rent": opportunity cost.

Nice try Verain. Redo the math and come back to us in a couple of days.

40x / 28%

and more ...

Ok anyway, now I'm being too noisy on this board, sorry.

Thanks evillager, maybe steve will admit to you that he has no understanding whatsoever of how marginal tax rates work, because he can't seem to bring himself to admit he is wrong when I point it out.

Save your breath and time everyone because according to this thread:

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/3914-new-dev-resale-pricing

NYC will again be the crime captial of the world. So it doesn't really matter whether marginal tax rates > effective tax rates or vice-versa - the only thing we should worry about is to hunker down in our bunkers and wait for the criminals to run rampant so that NYC becomes affordable again.

Art degree, LMAO.

Now I see why you didn't understand the difference b/w above vs. below the line deduction, let alone marginal vs. effective tax rates.

Are the boys at FI giving you attention or do you still use your McMansion to pull in sloppy thirds? Everyone loves a bear (pun intended), see you at tea dance pops!

"Real estate isn't levered."

Case closed.

"Marginal rates, effective rates - I haven't paid attention thus far. The answer seems simple. 50% * 26% + 50% * 33% or 29.5%. How is it Steve that you can have a debate over that?"

I agree with you on that, vverain. Talk to LICC: "Thanks evillager, maybe steve will admit to you that he has no understanding whatsoever of how marginal tax rates work, because he can't seem to bring himself to admit he is wrong when I point it out."

"Home ownership is different than investing in real estate."

Touché!

"corporate incomes are indeed constained by global GDP growth, basically by definition. Think about it - if corporate GDP grows faster than total GDP for a long time, it eventually becomes global GDP."

You cannot (by definition) be constrained by something that you form part of.

"A+B > C+D IF, A>D and B>C" = FALSE

3 + 1000 > 2 + 999 --> 1003 > 1001, but A < D

"Only as a construct of the purchase will the majority of buyers will lever their asset with a mortgage."

Untrue. According to the Census Bureau, 70% of homes have mortgages.

http://factfinder.census.gov/jsp/saff/SAFFInfo.jsp?_pageId=tp14_housing_financial

"The leverage amortizes, so in the long-run, the leverage decreases and eventually goes to zero, unless the owner refinances."

Or if the owner dies or moves before the loan amortizes, and he takes out a new one on a new property.

Corporate loans also amortize.

"you don't know what equity value or market cap is."

Amply proved by copying the definitions.

"Saying you deduct your mortgage interest at the effective tax rate means that you deduct proportionally across all tax brackets you hit. Do you really think this is true? Or does it reduce your income, beginning with your highest bracket (your marginal rate)? If it reduces your income so much that you no longer reach that bracket, you just deduct the rest at the rate for the next highest bracket (which is your new marginal rate)."

Yes I really think this is true, and you said as much: "If it reduces your income so much that you no longer reach that bracket, you just deduct the rest at the rate for the next highest bracket."

Exactly, which is why the deduction is made at the average rate for the two, which is the effective rate.

Look up fungible: it means interchangeable. All deductions (for the most part) are fungible, meaning that if you have multiple deductions you must deduct them at the same rate. You can't deduct margin interest first and mortgage interest second, then it looks like the mortgage interest deduction is worth more, when it's not.

"Art degree." No, RClavi, I work as a translator, have a master's degree in Spanish and Portuguese. If you knew anything about the program you wouldn't be so dismissive. The program I took was basically a degree in philosophy.

Homophobia has no place on this or any thread, as racism, antisemitism and the like do not. Your comment is beyond contempt, and also completely unrelated to the lifestyle I live.

I don't know why I bother with ignorance.

To make it clearer, evillager, you deduct every marginal dollar at your marginal tax rate. But when considering the effect of all deductions, they must be considered jointly with all like deductions, which is at your effective rate. It becomes a weighted average.

The more you make the higher your effective so in that sense marginal rates have an effect, but you can't choose a FIFO / LIFO method when calculating what your true tax benefit is. You need to use the average cost of goods method.

Steve, if you are looking at the tax benefit of your mortgage interest deduction, you need to look at the actual amount you save. So if you already have deductions that push you down a bracket, then your tax benefit is based on your new marginal tax rate (the lower bracket). If you're not pushed down to the lower bracket, your marginal rate is still the highest rate.

This doesn't mean that one deduction is worth more than another - it just means that, when running the numbers of buy vs. sell, it's what at the margins that matters, in other words, the actual additional money you will save, not some "theoretical" savings based on all your deductions.

Finally, your effective rate includes all those brackets you mentioned above. Do you really think that your deduction impacts your income taxes at the lowest brackets?

Let me make it even easier for you. Think about it in reverse. I get a bonus at the end of the year, and my base salary already puts me in the top tax bracket. So what is the bonux taxed at - my marginal (highest) rate, or my effective rate? Obviously it is taxed at my marginal rate. Deductions work the same way, just in reverse.

"Homophobia has no place on this or any thread"

I agree 100% steve, but what about bullshitaphobia? You are starting to really scare me.

evillager to address your low brow idiotic comments - she is a classically trained Shakespeare actor who graced the staged at Stratford, St Petersburgh, Moscow and New York as a leading lady. Appeared on the covers of numerous magazines for both beauty and talent.

Any other non informed low brow comments?

Just because you cant pull any serious tail doesnt mean that other guys cant.

F'ing idiot.

i guess when you get out of the chump change world maybe some hot chick may look your way. But while you live in a 9000 sq ft dump you can only dream and attack steve to make yourself feel better

wow, petrfitz, I take it all back! your wife sounds awesome. she must love that you refer to her as "serious tail" on anonymous message boards. and she's much younger than you! you are the MAN!

and you are a loser for resorting to sophmoric slurs. Oh yeah and we really believe that your salry puts you in the top tax bracket but you choose to live in an east village dump.

"Your comment is beyond contempt, and also completely unrelated to the lifestyle I live."

Dude look at your myspace, you have twinks with their shirts off left and right as your friends yet none of them befriend you, I wonder why? I'm a homo myself, hence my knowledge of tea dance at FI. I was laying out there this wkend. I don't care what lifestyle you live, so long as you're not the type to believe in your own BS, babe. Don't try that holier than thou route b/c of your preference, it's played out.

Waitaminute!!!

HOLD UP!!!

Ok, since petrfitz has established himself as the enviable person whom we all wish we could be, what with being a multi-millionaire who can scoff at those poor lowly losers who "only have" $2 million in net worth and having a beautiful wife who, and I quote:

"is a classically trained Shakespeare actor who graced the staged at Stratford, St Petersburgh, Moscow and New York as a leading lady. Appeared on the covers of numerous magazines for both beauty and talent"

PLUS marrying her without a pre-nupt since she has an even LARGER trust fund...

WOAH!!!!

ALL OF YOU SHUTUP AND LISTEN TO THIS GUY!!!!! I will- all you other posters on this board, SHUT UP until you achieve that status. Don't you dare try and spread your moronic brain farts here until you have achieved a level that petrfitz has attained!!!

lol, I could care less what you think of me, or if you believe me or not.

and I'd say you're the loser for going to an anonymous message board to boast about how rich you are and how hot and young your wife is...really shows how insecure you are. and that's assuming what you say is actualy true.

I mention the tax bracket thing to illustrate a point about deductions, not to impress anyone...since the average apartment in manhattan is >$1m, I'd assume most people apartments buyers are hitting the top tax bracket.

StreetEasy,

I suggest that we have a new rule for requirements to post on this board.

1. You must sign up for an ID

2. You must show that your net worth is more than $100 million (that will enable you to scoff at "chump change" $2million net worth losers)- this must be documented, none of that NINJA loan bs

3. You must show a picture of your wife/spouse girlfriend, and she must pass a 9.8 rating on the hotness scale on hotornot.com

4. You must show documentation that proves your wife used to be a talent but gave it all up for you

If you don't meet all the criteria, you cannot get an account here to post.

Please consider this- my gosh, it will rid the board of all these lower class, uneducated, poorer idiots who haven't even broken the $10 million mark. they add nothing but blasphemy and confusion and I really, really can't take their low class remarks anymore.

What in the hell is a tea dance?

MMAfia, I feel like his next post is going to be about how he bench presses 400 lbs, how hung he is, or that he took a crap that weighed 10 courics.

look slike i will be the only one posting on this board. Therefore a lot less idiotic sopmoric comments by middle class losers!

I am literally laughing at both MMAfia and JuiceMan's posts...

Hey, let's all party some night. I think petrfitz should host since his place is so huge. Can your wife cook too?

Oh, and is your dad a loser? Since you said that your parents are "retirees of modest wealth". You must feel so good to have broken out of the shackles of such an average childhood before coming into your own as a real estate tycoon.

"look slike i will be the only one posting on this board. Therefore a lot less idiotic sopmoric comments by middle class losers!"

Yes, petrfitz, THANK YOU FOR SHOWING ME THE LIGHT!!!

I am nothing but a "middle class loser" capable of only "sopmoric" comments. Man I hate myself... how can I attain your status???? How did you do it? Please, let us poor middle class people know. We beg you to show us the enlightened path!!!

I don't want to be a "middle class loser" anymore. I'm sick of it. I want a pretty wife who used to be an actress and model too! I want $100 million in the bank too! How can we do it?!??!!?

I know I'm just a "middle class loser", but do you think buying real estate in Manhattan now is a good idea?

I don't anymore. All these other "middle class losers" trying to scare me off... tell them to bug off petrfitz!!! show them your might!!!!

"Dude look at your myspace,"

Rclavi, you flatter me - stalker that you are. Self-loathing, apparently, too.

evillager, I understand what you're saying about the marginal / effective rate, but it is wrong. It is wrong precisely because it weighs your bonus - which let's say you get at the end of the year - more than your January salary for tax brackets, but without your January salary your bonus wouldn't necessarily put you in a higher bracket.

Taxes run for a certain period, usually 1/1 through 12/31. On 1/1 you don't necessarily know how much you'll make (I never do). The benefit that you get at the end of the year is directly related to how much you make during the entire year, which is why January's income must be considered the same as December's.

For taxes, it (usually) doesn't matter when you make the money during the tax year, or which deductions you wind up taking. All that matters is the effect of the whole.

JM - a Tea Dance is one that starts at tea time: 4 pm.

ok steve, let's make it simple. I am in the highest tax bracket. After taking my mortgage interest deduction, plus all other deductions, my income is still in the highest bracket. what is the appropriate tax rate I should use to calculate my tax benefit due to deducting mortgage interest - marginal or effective?

I agree evillager, this thread is hilarious. This has got to be one of the best posts ever (coffee through the nose funny), especially since steve accused RClavi of being homophobic.

"Dude look at your myspace, you have twinks with their shirts off left and right as your friends yet none of them befriend you, I wonder why? I'm a homo myself, hence my knowledge of tea dance at FI. I was laying out there this wkend. I don't care what lifestyle you live, so long as you're not the type to believe in your own BS, babe. Don't try that holier than thou route b/c of your preference, it's played out."

"JM - a Tea Dance is one that starts at tea time: 4 pm."

Do people dance? Are people actually drinking tea? Is this similar to High Tea in London and Hong Kong or would this be how the Village People would do tea? Is that where the dancing comes in?

I'm enjoying it, JM!

"Are the boys at FI giving you attention or do you still use your McMansion to pull in sloppy thirds? Everyone loves a bear (pun intended), see you at tea dance pops!"

= Self-loathing.

+ a stalker. And nasty, unnecessarily.

To be avoided.

evillager, your effective rate, because it's the benefit you get. You don't use this year's income to calculate last year's benefit, or vice versa, or this year's deductions to calculate last year's taxes. (Up to a point) the more you make the higher your tax bracket, the higher your effective rate will be even if your marginal rate stays the same. That's how it accommodates the lower tax bracket.

The government counts all of your income and deductions for the year the same. You have to, as well. As soon as you say, "I'm in the 35% tax bracket, I'll allocate all my mortgage interest deduction to that bracket, and allocate margin interest to the 28% tax bracket," you're giving one greater weight than another when in reality - for tax purposes - it doesn't have that greater weight.

Just a bit of advice for Rclavi - instead of hurling insults at someone he doesn't know but whom he professes to be like, he should just sit back and look at the world and look to see what people my age and older have accomplished, what we fought for, what we have achieved not only for ourselves but for him and his generation, how we watched all of our friends die and didn't sit back and do nothing but stood up for what we thought was right.

Then he wouldn't be such an arrogant prick. He'd have the respect he should have for the very people who paved the way for him to get married in California.

50% of gay men my age and older died, and I watched them. I remember when you could get fired for being gay at Citibank and lots of other places. I remember 20 years ago fearing for my job and my life.

So just shut your f*cking mouth, go back to lying on the beach.

what people my age and older have accomplished

not owning a place in NYC!
but preaching non stop about the market.

50% of gay men my age and older died

no offense and i am sure this will be zapped. but AIDs is a lifestyle disease. stop playing it like you're (or your friends) a poor, non-mobile, and helpless woman in africa who was raped. or someone who was given bad blood during a surgery.

if i smoke 5 packs a day and drink will you feel bad when i get lung cancer or liver disease?

evillager - 1 - by saying my parents are of "modest wealth" I meant your level of net worth.

2 - Business School is for those who dont have any real talents or skills.

3 - how can a junior trader like yourself have so much time to post on bulletin boards? Shouldnt you be licking the ass crack of the real trader at the desk to try and get some of his crumbs?

eah you are disgusting.

And truly ignorant. You don't have the slightest idea of what it's like to be gay, or of what the gay lifestyle was back then or today, or of who got sick or why.

But I'm glad we're bringing out some of the latent homophobia - internalized or otherwise - so maybe people can reflect on it.

eah, I suggest you learn a little bit about the people whose "lifestyle" you abhor. Maybe get to know one or two. Read a book.

Just the true idiocy of writing, "what people my age and older have accomplished - not owning a place in NYC!" and "stop playing it like you're (or your friends) a poor, non-mobile, and helpless woman in africa who was raped."

in the same post demonstrates who you are. Begone.

You might also read how pandemics spread, if you know what that word is.

Or are chicken farmers who die of bird flu responsible for their own deaths, because they work on farms?

You just don't like the sex. Too bad.

So I am wrong that AIDs is a lifestyle disease? How am I ignorant? I agree there was across section of people who had no idea what AIDs was and could not protect themselves. But it was not long before the facts of transmission were known. How do you explain continued infection? You're defensive. I am not homophobic. My firm invested heavily in drugs to combat HIV until we went to a global conference that essentially said: how can we justify spending endlessly on a cure when the white, educated, informed portion of the population still infect each other? How will we ever get the message to Africa and other poor nations. Prevention is the cure.

I do not see how that makes me homophobic.

You're the one misusing a tragic situation to beat back the fact that you're a blowhard.

Bird flu and AIDS are divided by one major thing: AIDS is a wellknown entity and preventable.
Your analogy is ridiculous.
And even poor countries have culls when bird flu pops up (even though they're killing a major part of their severly limited food supply)--thereby containing infection.
Again, explain to me why affluent people with all the facts and access to medical care still infect themselves?

eah, your ignorance is really, really sad.

I'm not even going to comment on it any further, except you seem to know that you are both offensive and ignorant: "no offense and i am sure this will be zapped."

"So I am wrong that AIDs is a lifestyle disease?"

Yes you are wrong. Unless heterosexuality is a "lifestyle," as you call it, because the vast majority of people with AIDS are heterosexual.

"explain to me why affluent people with all the facts and access to medical care still infect themselves?"

Have you even read one recent statistic about who is getting infected in the US? Even one? 80% are black and Hispanic, poor and uneducated. Just a fact.

"And even poor countries have culls when bird flu pops up."

Are you suggesting we have a cull?

Just go away, along with Rclavi. Do you see the conversation this has led to? Do you see the underlying attitudes that I deal with on a regular basis? You are a prejudiced homophobe in denial.

If ignorance is bliss, this is a real fiesta.

steve I don't mean to bring up this topic again but can you or someone explain. Yesterday you posted that an apt similar to yours was on sales for 575,000.

The ad stated the following

"Recently renovated two bedroom Co-Op with Harbor views. Sit on the deck and watch the boats full of boys pull in!"

Apparently you got quite defensive when I stated what gender was this ad going after. You stated the apt was sold by a women. Now I don't get it. Since when to you have ads placed by women in fire island trying to appeal to other women. Can someone explain this ad to me for I just don't get. Juiceman your help would be deeply appreciated.

um, yeah, being hetero is a lifestyle. did i say AIDS is a gay disease? did i say gay affluent people? when i referenced white people it was in the context of a WHO conference who, after decades of studying trends, were miserable to find that white, affluent people still infected themsleves. therefore, as you went further down the line of money, education, mobilty, access to health care the odds of getting the message out was extremely slim.

of course most people getting AIDs are not gay, what percentage of the population identifies as gay? 5-8? And many of the urban black are engaging in gay sex yet engaged in a hetero relationship.

you're simply not able to call me homophobic in this regards. and i will most certainly whip you in any conversation regarding HIV/AIDS as we spent about 5 years and untold amounts of VC in the theraputic space.

so...lets exchange e-mails so i can really rip into you about how wrong/defensive/useless you are. i've done mor ein a practical sense to try to end the pandemic than you..who just uses it to deflect what a real estate idiot you are.

I don't understand what you're saying houser, though it does sound homophobic again.

I didn't get defensive at all. The apartment is owned by a woman. Anybody can watch the boys who wants. What is your point, except to show that you are on the same level as eah?

um, yeah, being hetero is a lifestyle.

My firm invested heavily in drugs to combat HIV UNTIL WE WENT TO A GLOBAL CONFERENCE THAT ESSENTIALLY SAID: HOW CAN WE JUSTIFY SPENDING ENDLESSLY ON A CURE WHEN THE WHITE, EDUCATED, INFORMED PORTION OF THE POPULATION STILL INFECT EACH OTHER?

Since I am in that population, I guess I do deliberately go around infecting people with a disease I don't have, or deliberately seeking to be infected with a disease I don't have. I guess I just haven't been lucky yet.

It's a ruse for homophobia.

Go away. You make me sick.

holy crap, these latest posts are my cue to get off this board...

anyway, I'm happy to part knowing that petrfitz called his dad a "middle class loser", since that's what he called me, and apparently his dad and I are of similar means

evillager, I'm with you on it. I'm outta here.

Can someone PLEASE explain what the hell a tea dance is?

Ruse for homophobia?

I guess I do deliberately go around infecting people with a disease I don't have, or deliberately seeking to be infected with a disease I don't have. I guess I just haven't been lucky yet.

Yes to that if you have unsafe sex.

No to that if you don't.

You're still not answering me. I am sure there is a transcript of the conference, it was the WHO..you know, that is a kinda credible organization.

I'm not going away Steve. I've done/said nothing wrong.

Okay I'm back briefly: "Can someone PLEASE explain what the hell a tea dance is?"

It's one that occurs at tea time - 4 pm. Just a marketing gimmick to get drunk (not that I need an excuse).

"I've done/said nothing wrong." WHO has nothing to do with. What has to do with it is the reaction: "HOW CAN WE JUSTIFY SPENDING ENDLESSLY...."

evillager, I might disagree with you on lots of stuff, but petrfitz was way overboard. Whenever we get into these ad-hominem attacks they degenerate into exactly what this one has.

No, I have to leave, I need to find somebody to deliberately infect me with AIDS since I'm "affluent people with all the facts and access to medical care."

You're such a baby Steve. To hot in the kitchen for you...

Be safe...

Well, this has certainly been a very informative thread.

I just have one quick question: Is it better to buy or to rent in Manhattan?

wait did steve just leave the board for good?

this thread was atrocious but maybe some good comes out of it.

hmm the market is now closed I guess that we can now expect the junior trader evillager to lift his nose from the ass crack of the actual trader on his desk to tell us actual RE players how we should do things. You know that he is a mogol because he owns an apartment in the East village.

It's past 4pm, steve and eah are at a tea dance.

JM - I wish!

Glad you're familiar with the lingo, though.

arent they only on sundays?

You don't deserve a response.

What happened here? Let me find my violin for you.

Yes, I'm of the younger generation, wasn't around for Stonewall, but do understand it's impact. I could only wonder what they would think of your myspace page that enforces the one-dimensional gay image the broader media still portrays. I like to be a bit more practical in promoting LGBT efforts at my firm's group by providing information on lobbysist who aspire for equal treatment, state tax/immigration implications on filing for a civil union, and other fun avenues. But I guess taking my shirt off and making a myspace would suffice as well. I'll run it by my boyfriend.

Oh and yes, I did enjoy laying out. My tan's pretty sick, thanks.

Oh crap--Steve is mad at me.
What am I to do?

Really, Steve, that was a ridiculous little victim rant you went on.

What's the link to Steve's Myspace page so we can have some context - lot's to learn here outside of real estate, tea dances, etc.

But anyway, I keep going back to Steve's inability to hold an argument containing logic.

Based on the stupid discussion initiated by Steve ... renting is ALWAYS better http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/3410-real-estate-is-a-bad-investment?comment_id=36007 ... where the assumptions were set out to force the answer Steve wanted

I ridiculed him by saying:
A+B > C+D
IF A>D and B>C

and so taday Steve says
"A+B > C+D IF, A>D and B>C" = FALSE
with support:
3 + 1000 > 2 + 999 --> 1003 > 1001, but A < D

a bit of sleight of hand on Steve's hand, once again

no sense arguing other points.

It doesn't matter what anybody thinks of Steve. AIDS wasn't a "lifestyle" choice 20 years ago. I am a straight woman who lost too many great friends. My exact generation took a direct hit

Now I'm selling my apartment and getting out of New York for many many reasons. I read Street Easy to get advice and I see threads like this--threads like "rent don't buy"--great advice for somebody who is selling and trying to price realistically.

I did say the Bronx didn't burn and stand by that. Ask the people in Riverdale, Fieldston, Country Club, Throgs Neck, Pelham Parkway and many more places. More of Brooklyn burned then. I know as I worked in Brooklyn then and in the Bronx in the late 80's-early 90's--and while I occasionally worked in the South Bronx the part of the Bronx I worked in felt safer than Manhattan.

I feel sad that Street Easy which could and should be a valuable resource for buyers and sellers has disintegrated into something that represents the worst of the best city in the world

I can't and won't ask the questions I have as my respect for most people who post here is minimal--with some exceptions

Calling AIDS a lifestyle choice and trying to get out of that remark by saying it only applies now is as sick or sicker than anything Steve has posted

Well, they don't call me the Reaper for nuthin'.... lol

I almost regret starting a thread directed at 1 person... But, steve, as a newbie here, I gotta say you do bring it on...

And again, my original post wasn't to brag on my part at all - I said I made "RELATIVE" money - Relative to my modest salary and $$ I wouldn't have accumulated with my salary... And money that I felt was contrary to what I've read steve and other say for a while now...

And in this thread I find it interesting that I think that Fire Island deal wasn't a great investment. But, I believe steve says he bought it for "fun" as well - well that's why I lived in Gramercy and that's why a lot of people here look at RE.. Like others said, it's not always about making a killing...

I still say there are deals to be had and I think the next year maybe more presents a great opportunity to buy in NYC - I think steve would agree to that, at some point.... Again, WTH do I know..

I'm here to learn though... So, some of you who may feel you're banging your head against the wall repeating yourself, rememeber there's people here other than steve trying to learn and ready to admit they have a lot to learn... So THANKS!!!!

sorry, if things got out of hand from my thread... Hang in there steve...

Tea Time sounds nice - I kinda like Reggae at Flynns myself ; )

rvlavi, you have no clue what it was like. I was a kid during Stonewall but I remember it; what I do remember living through is going to a funeral a week, calling people up and they've just disappeared, losing your best friend and a couple of former partners / boyfriends - they just stopped calling you, and you found out years later what had happened to them.

http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1P2-1131672.html

So just drop the "pops" thing. I have friends in their late 60's, early 70's, and I would never dare to call them that. They had it worse than I did, they did more than I did, they lost more than I did. I was at the tail end of the plague, I was marching when you were in diapers. You don't know what you're talking about, you "understand it's impact."

You don't understand anything.

And don't judge my website by the fun pictures. Read some of the things I've written, and what I say on stage, then get back to me.

reaper, it gets very personal here sometimes, unnecessarily. But you find out who eggs you on for the fun of the argument, and who really hides insidious feelings, like eah, who does not deserve to be engaged.

"is as sick or sicker than anything Steve has posted"

That's the nicest thing you've ever said about me!

:0

Isn't alcoholism a bigger problem than gay homosexualness? What did you mean that people just disappeared? You said this "calling people up and they've just disappeared, losing your best friend and a couple of former partners / boyfriends - they just stopped calling you, and you found out years later what had happened to them." Who killed them?

oh you have to stop telling us that no one knows anything besides you. I just casually read this but that seems like all you say about all the topics? No?

lol, petrfitz, I'm not a "junior trader", I'm a pm.

by the way, how sure are you that that kid on the way is yours? you never know with that ruskie wife of yours...

"Isn't alcoholism a bigger problem than gay homosexualness?"

You mean "homosexuality"? It's not a problem.

What I mean by "they've just disappeared" is that the went into the hospital, didn't tell anybody, and died, and their relatives didn't tell anybody because they were "embarrassed."

"you have to stop telling us that no one knows anything besides you."

F*ck you. You don't know what I'm talking about.

evillager, sorry about this, but I'm on your side. I disagree with you on lots of stuff, but you were the victim of a personal attack from someone who can't attack your arguments, who thinks he's better than you b/c you didn't marry a model and aren't "worth" $10 million.

Yawn to all of that.

Same as: "Are the boys at FI giving you attention or do you still use your McMansion to pull in sloppy thirds? Everyone loves a bear (pun intended), see you at tea dance pops!"

"Yes, I'm of the younger generation, wasn't around for Stonewall, but do understand it's impact."

No you don't.

"I like to be a bit more practical in promoting LGBT efforts at my firm's group by providing information on lobbysist who aspire for equal treatment, state tax/immigration implications on filing for a civil union, and other fun avenues. Oh and yes, I did enjoy laying out. My tan's pretty sick, thanks."

"my firm's group by providing information on lobbysist who aspire for equal treatment" / "My tan's pretty sick, thanks."

Do me a favor - if you recognize me this weekend, ignore me. I will thank you for it.

sicker than what steve/jaded? tell me? yes, there was a narrow period of time when people were clueless about infection. But, sorry. If my teenage daughter walked into a bath house with CRISCO -read AND the Band Played On and personal accounts - came out pregnant and with an STD and said I had no idea...the sympathy would be thin.

was at a Clinton Foundation fundraiser once and a woman nailed it: if she EVER saw a gay man at a breast cancer or MS or March of Dimes fund raiser she could stomach the cause. But, by and large they are totally absent.

so, fuck you steve. go on with your silly rants about moving gay society forward. you're simply an ass who rents.

"a bit more practical"

I think I'm getting sick.

"my firm's group"

I'm getting sicker.

"Oh and yes, I did enjoy laying out."

I just puked.

Sometimes, you can identify a fag and everything you don't like about them, even if you love them:

"a bit more practical"

"my firm's group"

"Oh and yes, I did enjoy laying out."

"pops."

Yes, I used the F word, to perfect effect.

why? because someone is cooler than how you view yourself? as my gay friends warned me" there is nothing sadder than an old queen. since you're so flush - ever considered adopting a baby? might give you some meaning and depth?

"My tan's pretty sick, thanks."

"by providing information"

You're so useful, rclavi.

Provide me with some information I don't know.

"If my teenage daughter walked into a bath house with CRISCO -read AND the Band Played On and personal accounts - came out pregnant and with an STD and said I had no idea...the sympathy would be thin."

You are SO AWFUL. I've never pressed the "ignore this person" button, but I'm tempted to.

How DARE you project the behavior of a minority onto the majority!

How DARE you say that if your daughter was pregnant with an STD - that your "sympathy would be thin"!

If it were my daughter and she did whatever she did, I would be there with her - figure it was my fault.

Rclavi has lots of internalized homophobia issues - but you are a disgusting human being, and I use the term loosely.

"read AND the Band Played On and personal accounts."

You have GOT to be kidding! That's where you get your information? From a small minority.

I don't defend what went on back then but 95% of the people I know weren't involved in it.

You are sick, sick, sick. Basing an entire population's behavior on what was happening in San Francisco in 1980.

"go on with your silly rants about moving gay society forward. you're simply an ass who rents."

Now we see who you are. If I were you I'd be embarrassed to show my - eah? - on any thread. I'm an ass b/c I rent. I have "silly rants" when you would watch your daughter die with no sympathy.

I can't go on with this....

oh goodness. is this a full on purse fight? i really need to get to bed, I have an 8:30 flight but this is fascinating. kinda like when i lived close to Lips and my dog was scared of the trannies...

crisco!

lmao.

"i lived close to Lips and my dog was scared of the trannies..."

OMG. The truth is out. HOMOPHOBE. To be ignored at all costs.

Okay, I did it. I pressed the "ignore this person" button.

Thank you, Jesus.

the thing is...all my kids are passed that age steve. and my worry is the things they cannot control. being raped. getting breast cancer. getting MS. their children dying. the fact that i have young nephews with HIV amazes me. so much happens in life that you cannot control it amazes me when people do things they know are so so risky. and you, my friend, typify the personality. you're so convinced of your own rectitude and sacredness...your little rant was exhibit A. what was that about? you took the conversation to AIDS. don't get all prissy over the outcome of your own hissy fit.

lmao. yes, typical response. why don't you get some meaning in your life. does anyone love you/look after you? if you died on your way home tonight; would anyone know for a few days? i suspect your friends on streeteasy would be more concerned than anyone.

does that mean we ignore each other? that would be a sweet deal...

"if you died on your way home tonight; would anyone know for a few days? i suspect your friends on streeteasy would be more concerned than anyone."

eah, cut the shit. this is way out of line and enough is enough.

This thread has become inappropriate for this site, its content is inappropriate, and the mods should shut it down.

I came here to attack Steve's argument, blatant and sinister deceit, and lousy personality ... but I think Steve has just self-destructed beyond repair.

I only retaliated against obnoxious comments made by eah and (the supposedly gay) rclavi by reposting them. I had to block eah because of the horrendous things (I suppose it's a she but I don't know) wrote.

"I came here to attack Steve's argument, blatant and sinister deceit, and lousy personality"

That's the whole point why I wrote what I did. See what it sounds like to get involved in these attacks on people, rather than just sticking to the facts? This was started as a 'steve' thread - "blatant and sinister deceit, and lousy personality."

Thank you. You can reject my arguments, you can argue against me, but once you say what reaper says - "But, steve, as a newbie here, I gotta say you do bring it on..." - blaming the person being attacked for being attacked - you start down a slope.

Petrfitz started by attacking anybody who didn't live up to his 'standards,' especially evillager.

Vverain ridicules my Columbia degree without knowing anything about the program: the most rigorous Spanish and Portuguese program at any university in the country, one of the most difficult programs to get into at Columbia, one of the ones with the highest dropout rates, and the single most arduous program in terms of years to PhD, to the point where they had to make it easier to get a PhD.

I'll tell you what, vverain: you enroll in that program today and I'll enroll in yours, and you tell me who comes out better. Unless you can read 1,000 pages a week in 4 languages and write the equivalent of a book a semester on psychology, philosophy, theology, literature, and history across 3 continents and 500 years, then you'll be at a decided disadvantage.

I am truly, truly tired of some of the things that people write here. I hope others will reflect. To the degree that I have engaged in this type of rhetoric in the past, I will stop (though I will defend myself).

This is no place for "sloppy thirds" or "if you died on your way home tonight," and now let it end.

Spunky is all but gone, and things are easier. Attack my arguments, say they're wrong or specious, but let's stop the personal stuff once and for all.

"but let's stop the personal stuff once and for all."

steve, I agree the personal stuff gets out of hand and there is no excuse for some of the things said on this thread. That said, real estate and home ownership is intensely personal and I believe you have a blatant disregard and disrespect for most people on this board. It is one thing to have an opinion about something and attempt to influence and understand your point of view, it is another to ridicule people as idiots or financial misfits because they decide to buy a place in Manhattan. You can’t blame people for wanting to insult you (within reason) based on how you interact with folks on this board. If you tell someone that they are an idiot after they just put down millions on an apartment and are weary anyways, your will get a negative reaction.

Look, I don’t take any of the back and forth between us personally and think (as you probably do) it is mostly done tongue and cheek. If I ever met you I would buy you a beer and we would have a good laugh. That said, I feel strongly that if you used that great energy and knowledge of yours and to help people rather than incite riots, we would all be better off. I’ve seen some of your productive posts and they can be intensely helpful and content rich. You can still have your point of view without being a dick about it.

Of course that doesn’t mean we can’t give each other shit every now and then, because that would be boring.