212 East 95th Street

see 223 West 80th Street

223 west 80th is 1,400/square foot, how is that comprable?

Concerns: Neighborhood borders on bad, no full time doorman, public school is bad, no views

The developer (Cavan) and architect (David Black) who developed 223 W 80th st also did 212 E 95th st.

While 223 W 80th is a much better location (thus not really comparable in terms of price), the finishes and design look very similar (I confirmed with the developer that both buildings were done by the same architect):
http://www.prudentialelliman.com/Listings.aspx?ListingID=856225&rentalperiod=&SearchType=quick&Region=NYC

I think no views is the biggest downside, but I think the prices reflect that. The neighborhood is actually not bad, the immediate area feels very residential and lots of retail around. Of course once you get past 97th/98th into East Harlem things change, but around 95th things are still pretty nice.

What do people think of part-time doorman, if common charges reflect that (lower than usual)? Isn't that something that could be easily changed by the condo board?

What about Omni- 2 doors toward 3rd ave-2 beds in new bldg with views and full time doorman for 900/sq ft?

Is it fair to compare a conversion to a completely new development? Wasn't the Omni once a dorm for medical students before they converted it to a dorm?

I don't think the neighborhood is that bad either. And it should get better over the next few years with all the development in the area which is good for investment value in the future...?

I really like how much space and how things are laid out in these units. Plus I like the boutique feel of the building with just 26? units. Just nervous about the economy and RE market in general.

Interesting, didn't realize it was a conversion. How would the fact that it's a conversion effect resale value compared to a new development and how does that compare to the presence or lack of views effecting resale?

The Omni doesn't have a tax abatement, so they had to lower the asking prices to compensate buyers. The neighborhood school is not good, as it also services the children of the nearby housing projects.

The Omni has nice open views, and is cheaper based on price per sq ft, but as iMom pointed out, the taxes are extremely high, and their ppsf numbers are deceiving as the layouts are very unusual (the building is hexagonal and most of the room shapes are not square/rectangular) and aren't as efficient space-wise. Finishings are also not as nice as East Hill, and no washer dryer are also minuses.

I lived in the neighborhood recently and really liked it. Feels safe with good public transportation. Will benefit from the 2nd Ave Subway that's being built. Several grocery options (including Gourmet Garage on Lex/96). Lots of local restaurants, drugstores, cleaners and nail salons. Unfortunately, I've been priced out of this neighborhood so I no longer live there, but I can certainly recommend it if it's within your price range.

I was reading some reviews of the zoned school. Is it still that bad? Couldn't tell from the reviews if it's been possibly improving or it's been getting worse.

PS 77 (right next to the neighborhood school) is supposed to be a great public school, but I think there's an exam for your child to get in.

Here is the link to the zoned elementary school's (PS 198) 2006-2007 evaluation report. It received an overall grade of "C".
http://schools.nyc.gov/OA/SchoolReports/2006-07/ProgressReport_EMS_M198.pdf

PS 77 (aka Lower Lab School) is part of the "gifted" program that shares the same building. If your child doesn't score high enough to get into the gifted program, they'll be stuck in PS 198.

I heard about some rumored plans to take down Metropolitan hospital and some of the NYCHA housing projects 2 blocks away. If this is true then along with the subway coming in 2016, the neighborhood will improve alot.

to kewylly and ml99 the neighborhood is fine, I have lived there for years. Neighborhoods in New York are a matter of intense partisanship. That area is, for now, more residential and less commercial than downtown or parts of the UWS. Layouts and design are very nice, with great, but not over-the-top finishings and features. As for the part-time doorman, this is a growing trend, check out 22 Renwick. You get decent light, good design, washer-dryer, a gas fireplace and, in most units, outdoor space for a competitive price in terms of where the market is today. In terms of where the market might go, who knows. But it seems that the developer priced at least part of the market uncertainty into the asking prices.

I've been interested in East Hill for a few months now (though the price seemed a bit high for the location especially in the current market which seems to teeter on the precipice, which I guess makes me a sideliner). Has anyone moved into the building yet? I walked by yesterday and it still looks like a construction zone (even though when I first spoke with the broker he promised a TCO by July 15 and ability to move in by Aug15). I thought it was quite optimistic then, and I probably wasn't wrong. Does anyone know?

I had also looked into east hill in the Spring and was told with great conviction that move ins would start after Memorial Day. When I checked back that became July 4th then Labor Day, then mid September. I sort of gave up after this, figuring it wouldn't happen until after a holiday like Thanksgiving. I have also noticed that they are mixing and matching floor plans, deviating from the original lay outs and offering varied combinations. I imagine they realize that they are unlikely to get asking prices on proposed 1's and 2's so are moving toward 3's. This will certainly delay move ins.

Closings are starting mid-Sept. We are closing end of Sept. One of the 2bedrooms. Yes, we are nervous about RE and the economy... but we really liked the building, layout, etc. Was initially nervous about the neighborhood, but spent some time up there and really like it. Plus the area in general hasn't seen the level of appreciation the rest of Manhattan has so we figure prices would be relatively more stable us there and it helps that the 2nd ave subway line means good investment value if we're in it for the long haul... so we took the plunge.

Also closing at the end of September, depending, of course, on the TCO being obtained.

So it's really going to happen. We'll check back in. We really like finishes and layouts and don't mind the lack of views.

OK, so stilll no TCO. alchemy, I had sort of figured Thanksgiving/Christmas as well. Thanks everybody.

I've looked at this development and this area and think that the area has some problems, especially in the short term. When the city starts to feel the inevitable sting of city/state financial crisis, this is an area that may see problems with increased crime/decreased services or just a sort of unsafe feeling at night. I have already seen it at night sometimes. I think there was a rehab facility on the block and have noticed some people that might have been clients on the block. Need that full time doorman.

I have been living in this block for 3 years and in the area for 9 years - it is a very nice block with restaurants and all kinds of other amenities nearby. Very reasonably priced at that....it's all relative of course. I do agree it all changes a few blocks up north and the school district is a downer.

Sand-I agree, for the most part it is fine and the transformation of the area over a decade has been amazing. However, it does sit at the interface of neighborhood change (where East Harlem meets Yorkville) and at times it is less than comfortable, particularly at the corner of 95th-96th and 2nd. This is not likely to improve in the short term given the current state of municipal affairs. Hence it should be priced a little better given this, the school, the lack of views and lack of amenities. Feel this way about all of northern Yorkville.

I agree with artisttime about the neighborhood (i.e. not bad, but has some issues), especially as you get further east towards 1st and 2nd avenue.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/building/345-east-93-street-manhattan

Look at the prices psf in this building. Obviously a coop and not new, but feels like a more appropriate discount that would make living in the neighborhood worthwhile. I know someone that lives there and is more than happy to deal with the less-than-ideal neighborhood for their great apt at a great price.

Checked out this joint. Trying to figure out what is going on here but it sure seems interesting. They are taking apt.'s off the market then creating new ones that didn't exist in the original plan. They also are calling the same apartment by different names. Streeteasy lists 9 in contract but I think that 4 of the listings in contract are really only 2 apartments. I guess this is a neat way to avoid having to show price drops while showing more apt.'s in contract then really exist.

Yorkvillain - true, true. I've been tracking them for a while. Case in point: originally floor 8 had two apts, 8A and 8B. 8A was renamed 8EAST and is now listed in contract. Except, 8A is listed in contract as well! Is this kosher? It's sure hard to track price drops this way.

Papa-
I think the game is this-realizing they won't get the $/sq ft they want with 1's and 2's in this climate, they are trying to outrun the drop by offering more 3's and get more $/sq ft this way since the inventory is smaller. However, they can dress it up all they want but the location isn't good and the light and views aren't either. With no amenities and a bad public school, families would do much better by looking at other buildings in the area that are now dropping to similar or lower $/sq ft and have views and maybe better schools. And these buildings are still overpriced for the area. Families that can drop >1100$/sq ft for large apt.'s can likely afford a full service package in a better locale. Of course they can also afford private schools.

....and it's about as kosher as a pulled pork sandwich smothered in cheese, but NY real estate is full of pigs....

What is a TCO?

Temporary Certificate of Occupany

do you haveto sell a certain %or do you have to close or just confirm a % of contracts out?

looks like they have a TCO. anyone move in yet? curious how the building is doing in terms of sales.

Yorkvillain, all makes sense to me on the 1/2s vs. 3s. I think you are right on, that they are going for 3s.

And I agree with you, that IS a tough neighborhood for 3s. If you can afford a 3 bedroom (and the kids that go with it in this town), you're going to pay a little more (or take a little less space) in a more kid-friendly neighborhood.

That is a young/single type neighborhood, not one for familes. Even if you just go down/over a few blocks, its much better for kids. I wouldn't want to be on 96th street with a baby carriage...

Yes.I think that "You're an idiot if you buy right now" thread really applies here. 1100$/sq ft or more (although I assume they must be covering all closing and even mansion tax by now) for a product with no views, no light, no real amenities in this area is crazy. And if they go for the full time doorman as the brokers are suggesting, watch your common charges jump in this small building. They are selling you new construction with good but not great finishes and small outdoor space facing a set of drain pipes in an alley. In two years when the finishes are worn, you'll be left with a dark space worth probably half to two-thirds of what you paid for it that you will have a hard time renting due to the glut of rental buildings in the area that are full service buildings.

Run!

Yorkvillain's assessment, though harsh, is in essence correct. They tried to pitch this as a well priced new development, which is very debatable when you consider all the faults enumerated in this dialogue. Now there is no debate that it is not close to well priced. If you are even considering, wait, wait wait until it is a bargain (<750/sq ft. ?). Look next door for a glimpse of the future, there is an impending fire sale for the remaining units of the Omni.

They're reaching out but they're not serious about cutting prices and I think that is the wrong tact in this environment. There is a very rough crowd on this thread, but they are convincing. We had seriously looked here but the delays alarmed us. Now we will not look back since there are going to be well priced apartments available that offer a much better overall package in better locations than East Hill.

alchemy...in your estimate, which buildings represent currently or will probably represent in the future well priced apartments in better locations with better overall packages?

thanks

ouch gilmore--avananche a comin

anybody on here have an idea how much off the asking price the developers are willing to go? thanks.

Coogie,

If you are really contemplating and investment of this magnitude, I suggest you buy a subscription to StreetEasy so you can compare ask vs. sell on transacted deals for this building. Otherwise, if there is an apartment you like, make an offer. The worst that can happen is that the developer will refuse or, more likely, make a counter offer. Then again, he might just accept you offer and then you'd really be in trouble.