BofA Sees $3.5 Billion Writedown At Merrill, $7 Billion At UBS

Keep moving and keep your head in the sand, nothing to see here.

Goldman Said to Prepare Scores of Layoffs

http://dealbook.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/06/23/goldman-said-to-prepare-scores-of-layoffs/

I'm confused, I thought that M&A activity was suppose to increase? Or at least that's what some posted previously. This market is actually becoming a daily joke.

Again, what has this anything to do with Manhattan real estate? Don't you already know that the foreigners will save us??!?!?! Who cares about Wall St?

Stop SCARING people with useless information. Even if Wall St. were to totally disappear altogether, it wouldn't matter since Manhattan real estate always goes up.

Yes and JPM was going to hire thousands of more workers to integrate BSC's computer systems.

Wall Street cannot possibly have any effect on Manhattan real estate prices. That's precisely what they said on CNBC this morning when they noted that those jobs accounted for over 25% of the city's income. The actual figure is 33% when ancillary jobs are added in.

They also predicted that because so many people were being fired, everybody else's bonuses would soar as the number of people collecting bonuses will have fallen so dramatically. You know, divide by a smaller number gives you a bigger result.

In fact, what Merrill Lynch is planning to do with all the capital they've just raised, is to divvy it out among their staff as bonuses. Ditto Citi, BofA, Lehman.

Yup. They're going to go to the Kuwaitis and say, "Guys, give us tons of money so we can distribute it to our employees as bonuses. Otherwise, they'll quit."

So no, none of this will have any effect whatsoever here. Rents are going to go up because costs have increased, despite the fact that incomes are falling dramatically, because JuiceMan said they have to in order to bring the market back into equilibrium.

And new regulation by the Fed will have no effect.

And higher interest rates and tighter credit will have no effect.

EVERYBODY will be able to afford a $10 million apartment this time next year. We're all going to have chauffeur-driven Priuses, an actress/model/singer/dancer/songwriter/puppeteer trophy wife - or maybe 2 - and a net worth of over $100,000,000,000.

That's my prediction.

"an actress/model/singer/dancer/songwriter/puppeteer trophy wife"

LMAO!!!

MMAfia, you're just bitter because you rent a nasty one-bedroom in Jersey City with a view of where you REALLY want to be: the most overpriced housing market in the country.

Personally, I'm just a bitter old queen (or so I've been told).

Has anyone else noticed that many of the bulls have left the building?

indeed i was thinking the same thing, dco.

Not to worry - we still have Elvis.

And I say that not as a good thing. I actually like to know what the enemy is thinking.

"thinking"?

Insults.

Panic! Om My God there are lay offs on wall street. The Manhattan real estate market will tank because some 26 year old trader lost his job!

The sky is falling!

Inputed Rent!

40 Xtimes earnings.

Panic!

Panic!

another day - more doom and gloom - and you are all a bunch a renters - still.

petrfitz, how's that newly detailed chauffeur-driven Prius getting you around town?

"some 26 year old trader lost his job!"

"NEW YORK - Citigroup Inc. is about half-way through cutting 10 percent of the 65,000 employees in its investment banking unit, a person familiar with the job cuts said Monday."

You're right. I wish I owned!

petrfitz- Actually it's not going to just effect 26 yr olds. It's starting to cut into the Managing Directors (MD's). And I wouldn't be so quick to assume that twenty somethings don't make good money in IB's. Most MBA's are making $200,000+. And are the next generation MD's.

Hmm - you mean that there are goin gto be less pompous a hole i bankers in NY?

I bet that there are alot of people who would pay more to live in a city with less of this type around. Like myself.

What do these iBankers add to the city? They are not creative, bores to talk to, think that the world is theirs, have nothing interesting to say etc.

I will be happy to see this ilk reduced.

Also dont most of the big guys all live out in West Chester and helicopter into the city? How does that effect NYC RE?

"that ilk," not "this ilk."

"goin gto be less pompous a hole i bankers in NY"

Yes - now we're all going to have chauffeur-driven Priuses, an actress/model/singer/dancer/songwriter/puppeteer trophy wife - or maybe two, since there's a glut.

"They are not creative, bores to talk to, think that the world is theirs, have nothing interesting to say etc."

I think you forgot a reflexive object pronoun somewhere in that sentence.

How about that stock market? That is a great place to be investing all your money since you all think that the RE market sucks.

I am not following it but isnt the stock market kicking ass?

Or are all you guys invested in that totally not risky sure thing investment - Brazilian commodities!

Steve - all jabs at me no reasoning behind how Wall Streeters losing their especially all those that do not live or own in NYC will hurt NYC RE?

Also spell checking really proves your point.

I don't know - I'm not invested in the US stock market. But one thing I do know - besides that you don't have a chauffeur-driven Prius or an actress/model/singer/dancer/songwriter/puppeteer trophy wife who you call a "babe" - is that if I were to own US stocks, they're very liquid and easy to get out of.

Unlike real estate.

"I am not following it but isnt the stock market kicking ass?"

OMG Petrjizz, Petrjizz, you really really have your head stuck deeeep in the dirt don't you.

it's ok- keep thinking about your "chauffeur-driven Priuses" and "actress/model/singer/dancer/songwriter/puppeteer trophy wife" you so proudly trumpeted in this forum.

bwwaahahaahahahha

Wait, Wait, Wait. Did Petrfitz just that that people will pay more to live in Manhattan once all the 200K/year ibankers have left? So in theory, when Wall street is hiring, prices should increase cause the bankers buy up everything. But....when Wall street lays people off, prices in Manhattan...wait...they go up cause people pay a premium to not have to live with ibankers.....

Petrjizz, apparently, you are too much of a n00b to remember himwhoknows... DOW to 11,000 was scoffed at. Why would we invest in stocks when we said DOW to 11,000???????

Petrjizz, apparently, you are too much of a n00b to remember himwhoknows... DOW to 11,000 was scoffed at.

Why would we invest in stocks when we said DOW to 11,000???????

Memnonhi, EXACTLY. That is my point. Manhattan real-estate can only go.... UP! Doesn't matter if Wall St is hiring, firing, disappears- see? doesn't it make so much sense? yAy!!!

Don't worry. According to my sources at Corcoran and Douglas Elliman, these Wall Street job losses will have ABSOLUTELY NO AFFECT on Manhattan prices.

"That is my point. Manhattan real-estate can only go.... UP! Doesn't matter if Wall St is hiring, firing, disappears- see? doesn't it make so much sense? yAy!!!"

You are correct. Technically, Manhattan prices only go UP if you stand on your feet during an up marketr, and then stand on your head during a downmarket, resulting in down becoming up. Those who don't think that prices will come down are standing on their heads.

Memnonhi, I'm glad you see the logic in this.

But remember, petrfitz has people BANGING HIS DOOR DOWN to rent out his many estates in New York County. That's right: BANGING HIS DOOR DOWN.

Unfortunately, they all used to work for investment banks.

No wait! They're all waiters glad that those pesky investment bankers are finally gone. Nothing more than DINKS if you ask them.

Or - if he is renting out these palatial estates in the - yes: Lower East Side, what a 'hood! - he must be taking quite the credit risk since he'll rent to people who make less than 40x monthly rent, or...

...he's squeezing 10 to flat.

"Panic! Om My God there are lay offs on wall street. The Manhattan real estate market will tank because some 26 year old trader lost his job!"

When 6,500 traders lose their jobs, that affects the market. Some may even have to give up their chaffeur driven Priuses and start riding the subway.

"all jabs at me no reasoning behind how Wall Streeters losing their especially all those that do not live or own in NYC will hurt NYC RE?"

Reasoning? What is that?

Of course it will have no effect. Who cares if they represent 33% of all the income in New York City? Who cares if it's the #1 private employer in the city? Who cares if they're the ones who are actually lending you your mortgage money?

Who cares? It matters nothing. Manhattan real estate will all be worth gazillions by this time next year. No lie. I just saw a 200-square foot apartment advertised in the Lower East Side for $15 million.

It belongs to petrfitz, but he has to get rid of it fast since no one will rent it out for $35k a month.

"Some may even have to give up their chaffeur driven Priuses and start riding the subway."

Say it isn't so!

Next thing that will happen: divorce papers from their actress/model/singer/dancer/songwriter/puppeteer trophy wives.

If petrfitz could just count to 3 before he posts again, he might realize that in one sentence he says that investment bankers live in New York City, and in the next he says they don't:

"What do these iBankers add to the city? They are not creative, bores to talk to, think that the world is theirs, have nothing interesting to say etc. I will be happy to see this ilk reduced. Also dont most of the big guys all live out in West Chester and helicopter into the city? How does that effect NYC RE?"

And BTW, West Chester is in Pennsylvania. Westchester is where petrfitz lives: Yonkers.

And these layoffs are only the beginning. It is estimated that over 30,000 people will lose their jobs on Wall. St.

"Also dont most of the big guys all live out in West Chester and helicopter into the city? How does that effect NYC RE?"

So you never got the memo that Wall St. people were buying up condos during the boom? 15 CPW is full of Wall St. people.

petrfitz- "What do these iBankers add to the city? They are not creative, bores to talk to, think that the world is theirs, have nothing interesting to say etc".

Perhaps your right, but I would like to add they don't have be. If it weren't for them paying the majority of the taxes in this city, neither would the "Artists" with their gov't subsidized grants.

No - malraux owns 3 entire floors of 15 CPW.

Having lived through BofA carnage in the 80's, there's no way that Citi is going to shed $400 billion in assets (as it says it would) which is 30% of its total assets, yet only lay off 6,500 people out of 350,000. You will see a third of its staff gone in 2 years.

Unfortunately, as things stand, there aren't a lot of people out there who would want to buy - or who could even afford - a lot of what they're doing. It'll just be shuttered.

Steve - my properties are in the EAST Village and LES and none of my tenants are Wall Streeters.

Continue to throw personal jabs at me and my wife, it makes you look very credible.

You guys just dont get it. You think that these banks are sitting there taking this hit and not doing anything about it. Wall Street Banks, and the people it employs and will lay off are not going to go away. Wall Street is looking for another bubble to build, new and inventive ways to rip off the masses, new exotics, etc.

Wall Street will not go quietly into the night. For everyone who gets pushed out, there are 10 guys who are willing to work harder, dirtier, smarter, etc.

But you guys expect that the Street will just take this and languish.

You are fools. In times of great turmoil, there is greatest opportunity.

"it makes you look very credible."

This from the man who proudly claims he has a chauffeur-driven Prius.

"throw personal jabs at me and my wife."

We don't believe you have this wife, "babe," "chick," whatever you called her.

petrfitz: "What do these iBankers add to the city? They are not creative, bores to talk to, think that the world is theirs, have nothing interesting to say etc."

petrfitz: "Wall Street is looking for another bubble to build, new and inventive ways to rip off the masses, new exotics, etc."

Apparently these uncreative bores are also new and inventive.

petrfitz: "Wall Street Banks, and the people it employs and will lay off are not going to go away."

petrfitz: "I will be happy to see this ilk reduced. Also dont most of the big guys all live out in West Chester and helicopter into the city? How does that effect NYC RE?"

Apparently the people who are being reduced and who in any case don't live in the city are nonetheless not going away from where they're already not at.

The EAST Village, ha? Why do you emphasize EAST?

"In times of great turmoil, there is greatest opportunity."

Yes, and we have nothing to fear but fear itself, and blood, sweat, toil and tears. Unfortunately, the opportunity doesn't happen until the turmoil hits bottom, and we haven't even come close to that yet.

Steve you are suck a prissy little bitch.

petrfitz: "Continue to throw personal jabs at me and my wife, it makes you look very credible."

petrfitz: "Steve you are suck a prissy little bitch."

That's the way to win an argument, petrfitz.

Sorry if quoting you directly from the same thread doesn't put your "reasoning" in a good light, but why take it out on me?

Steve - I tried to reason with you but your prissy little bitchness overcame my good judgement.

Its almost the end of the month - please send in your rent check on time.

best response I've heard yet to Steve's doom-n-gloom, schadenfreude ways, perfitz. What a waste of energy to keep coming up with bearish reasons to avoid NYC real estate. We're not all Wall-Streeters. What is the purpose? Stay away from the site and focus on other web sites where you feel more comfortable to invest. Most people that read here are in fact interested in investing and want to buy. To dissuade people to buy, to look smart for smart's sake, and to play "I told you so's" with cyber buddies...what is that? It amazes me that someone so fascinated by real estate cannot turn his savvy intelligence around to see opportunity when there is turmoil. Let me guess, "I started this thread, so start your own..."

petrfitz: "You think that these banks are sitting there taking this hit and not doing anything about it. Wall Street Banks, and the people it employs and will lay off are not going to go away. Wall Street is looking for another bubble to build, new and inventive ways to rip off the masses, new exotics, etc. Wall Street will not go quietly into the night. For everyone who gets pushed out, there are 10 guys who are willing to work harder, dirtier, smarter, etc. But you guys expect that the Street will just take this and languish."

petrfitz: "Also dont most of the big guys all live out in West Chester and helicopter into the city? How does that effect NYC RE?"

Make up your mind, petrfitz, either it does or it doesn't affect NYC RE. It can't do both.

Memnonhi had it right: "Wait, Wait, Wait. Did Petrfitz just that that people will pay more to live in Manhattan once all the 200K/year ibankers have left? So in theory, when Wall street is hiring, prices should increase cause the bankers buy up everything. But....when Wall street lays people off, prices in Manhattan...wait...they go up cause people pay a premium to not have to live with ibankers....."

Why is this board addicted to using the bull and bear term? My sense is people tend to be opportunists and others dead set against the market.

"I tried to reason with you"

Really? Nothing you said makes sense - just read it, that's why I reposted it.

curious007: "It amazes me that someone so fascinated by real estate cannot turn his savvy intelligence around to see opportunity when there is turmoil."

Who said I'm not?

eah - you're still ignored. :)

Steve you are still a prissy little bitch. :)

fair enough, but let's also consider opportunistic areas to buy...sure nyc area is not budging in price and should remain this way...and people will hold if they can financially and personally. Throwing one out there: what do the got-a-case-of-the-mondayers think about investing in upstate ny, primarily sullivan county with many foreclosed properties + very negotiable properties/land that have dipped? Buying acres of land and putting up multiple modular homes to sell when the market stabilizes...thoughts for the creative types?

Curious - i am interested in upstate foreclosures - do oyu reccommend a site with good listings?

"putting up multiple modular homes to sell"

Upstate NY is losing population by the day. New homes require more people. Does the math work for you?

"Steve you are still a prissy little bitch."

Because you have no arguments?

perfitz - i would call local banks/loan officers until you find one you like and who specializes in foreclosures. its how you'll find the best deals.

the best is actually going to the live auctions, but here is a site to start: http://sullivancountyrealestate.com/

The math may work if you own the land already ;)...also if young urban couples start to realize that they may have to sit on their purchased 1 or 2 BR. Maybe they want to buy something for $200k and have a house 2 hours away to go to on the weekend that was custom-built for them on the cheap? The logic follows that if NYC RE is overvalued, why not add to your ownership with a less expensive alternative? This area has potential especially if the monticello raceway goes full-fledged casino.

curious007 - i think litchfield county, ct is a little better in terms of region. some part of upstate ny are a bit scary. a lot of my friends who bought there never really saw much appreciation unless they had a very unique place. i think what may change the area, possibly, is if people buy land and place eco friendly homes and build up local community. northwest ct already has a nice community/services.

Well my sister has a place up there & it's nice, but...

Really far away if you live in Manhattan.

"The logic follows that if NYC RE is overvalued, why not add to your ownership with a less expensive alternative?"

There's really no logic to that.

"This area has potential especially if the monticello raceway goes full-fledged casino."

The Feds already said no to the Indians, and it would require a change in NYS's constitution.

i am not looking at an upstate place as an investment. I have some cash sitting around and want to buy a nice peice of land 20+ acres and eventually build a weekend home there. Probably a passive solar off the grid place.

Curious do you know of any big peices of land?

perfitz--have you looke din the Accord, NY area? There is land around Mohonk Mt that is beautiful and a small but, hopefully growing, community of people putting up Glidehouses and I think huf haus.

petrfitz- How is your chauffeur going to feel about driving the Prius all the way upstate? At least you won't have to stop for gas, however how are you going to get all those models in that little car. I know they are shinny but I assume they have long legs. HAHAHAH.... Enjoy the trip and know you are helping the environment with all your real estate wealth.

eah - My wife and I spent some time building off the grid homes in New Mexico ( as volunteers just to learn how to do it)

We worked on several of these www.earthship.net

When finished these are some of the most beautiful homes you have ever been in.

Will check them out. Thanks...

How many of these beautiful homes did you buy and what is the rent VS buy ratio in the dessert? HAHA>..

Didnt buy any but the market in Taos is very good.

dco - you should put forth a little effort and know something before you attack.

perfits--do the properties typically get built in clusters to share septic/utility lines/driveways and so on? that is what i foresee being marketable to NYers. homes that are eco-friendly, low maintenance because the plowing/mowing/etc are shared by a group. the work of a second household can really become a drag.

no they are built separately and are zero emission. They collect their own water, and electricity and process their own waste - no septic effluent. The design is amazing.

Water is collected from rain, stored, and filtered. Goes through shower, drinking, and then is diverted through planters in the house that clean the water. It is then used in toilets for flushing. Toilet water goes into a biological septic that treats water. No septic discharge.

With this design there is no reason to cluster them. They are all self sufficient.

Interesting. I'll have to read more about it.

perfitz,

If you are going to commute back and forth between the city and upstate, you might wan to upgrade form your Prius. Trade the Prius in for a Lexus RX Hybrid SUV. It can be uncomfortable being in a small car for a long time, even when it is driven by a chaffeur.

I agree with what someone on another thread said. The "ignore this person" really works well. The dialogue between petrfitz and eah was interesting and far easier on my nerves than it might have otherwise been.