Impact of Obama tax plan

Stakan - please explain why you are saying that Obama is not a good person. Do you think that McCain is a good person? and why?

At least we aren't choosing between Howard Dean and Mike Huckabee. Is that a nightmare or what?

I don't know what kind of person McCain is while I'm forced to know what kind of person Obama is and what company he keeps. I believe that people who are not power-hungry. back-stabbing, principle-less don't go into politics. Clinton has a dubious distinction of standing out even in this pile. Obama has not track record. He's a nobody who filled the vacuum. He's not the first, not the last on in doing so.

its good to see how non-partisan you are petrfitz. what a joke.

ccdevi - at points in my life I was a registered Republican, voted for Republicans, and donated to Republicans. I have also been a registered Independent. I am now a registered Democrat. In the past 4 years, I have voted for a select few Republicans who I agreed with and supported. I have voted for more Democrats in the past 10 years.

How about you? Have you always been registered to the same party? Have you ever voted across party lines?

I have actually been appointed to a position that was nominated by Spitzer and appointed by Bush. Is that partisan?

Petrfitz, are people allowed to like someone other than your candidate? Not everyone has to fall in line with the "Obama is the only man who can save America" nonsense. Is it not alright with you if someone has an unfavorable view of Obama? The beefs that people may have (like the company he keeps) are not ones concocted by Republicans or racists, they were people Obama himself chose to keep around. Is that not a legitimate issue? I think it is legit that you bring up McCain's involvement of the S&L scandal, and if that is enough of a reason for you not to want to vote for him, then it's totally your prerogative. I just don't get why anyone who says the slightest thing unfavorable about your candidate must then be forced to explain themselves in entirety.

petrfitz, You are a fake.

and if you want to try the bi-partisan line...McCain is going to win over Obama everytime. McCain-Feingold, McCain-Kennedy, McCain-Lieberman...

Obama-------.........

The argument started with "Obama's tax plan will ruin our country" I responded with "how could anyone ruin it more than the Bush Republicans did?"

I am behind Obama because McCain is the same policy, direction, tone as Bush.

Obama was not my candidate of first choice. I do think that anyone leaning McCains way has no clue and is just repeating the same damn mistake you guys made with Bush.

"I do think that anyone leaning McCains way has no clue and is just repeating the same damn mistake you guys made with Bush."

you don't think that is a bit of an absurd generalization?

Was it acceptable for a Presidential Candidate to joke about bombing another country? Is it acceptable to you for a leader of a foreign country to joke about bombing the US?

"Was it acceptable when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?"

petrfitz IS A FAKE.

Sizzlack - other McCain combos "McCain - Keating" "McCain - Bush"

Why does the Straight Talk Express have 54 lobbiests running his campaign? Hmm against off shore drilling/for off shore drilling.

McCain is now saying that he would vote against his OWN immigration bill. Talk about an opportunist flip flopper.

petrfitz IS A FAKE.

"Was it acceptable when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?"

Ah, quoting the classics! Now I have to see it again.

Yes, McCain has legislation sponsored by his own party. And he also has bi-partisan legislation. That is how it should be. I'm not gonna tell you its fantastic legislation, but at least he is trying. And for every McCain flip-flop there is one for Obama, like I said, they make mistakes (they are human).

Yes, McCain has legislation sponsored by his own party. And he also has bi-partisan legislation. That is how it should be. I'm not gonna tell you its fantastic legislation, but at least he is trying. And for every McCain flip-flop there is one for Obama, like I said, they make mistakes (they are human).

inquirer - i admit it I am a FAKE. You got me.

I am a Fake, and McCain is not a Bush third term, and Obama's tax policy is going to ruin the country more than Bush already did, the war in iraq was worthwhile and for a good cause, and W is the gretest president ever.

I dont know why McCain has 54 lobbiests running his campaign. Would you like to tell us? (I can sense you badly would)

For every McCain flipflop there is an Obama one too.

sorry for the double post

"Bush did give corporate tax breaks and middle class jobs were not created. If you havent noticed those tax breaks (McCain is speaking the same as Bush) got us into the worst employment and economic environment since the Great Depression."

Seems to me it lines up better with when Congress went to the Democrats...everything was going fine for 6 years until that blunder happened...

I dont know why McCain has 54 lobbiest running his campaign. For some one who says he fights against lobbiest influence in government, he sure does have a lot of them around. Another example of the Straight Talk Express with its wheels falling off.

the thing that blows my mind the most is that for all the nonsense, Pertfitz truly believes that McCain is inherently flawed in every aspect, while Obama is a glowing angel incapable of doing any wrong. Vote for whomever you like, but at least join reality.

sizzleack, are you Stakan?

Garelj - "everything was going fine for 6 years until that blunder happened..."

Hmm going fine? Lending practices were deregulated, Republicans said industry would regulate itself, the Bush Fed lower interest rates to artificially prop up the economy. During those 6 years pretty much the entire homeowner equity in the US was siphoned away by the unregulated banks, personal bankruptcies at an all time high, two wars waged poorly, hundreds of thousands of people killed, major disaster in New Orleans which was poorly handled and people died (Oh Yeah on the day people were drowning what were McCain and Bush doing? Having Birthday cake together)

During those 6 years we had 9/11, the entire world in support of us, then all that support was shat on, dissappeared, and turned against the US. Havent caught Osama "Dead or Alive", lost our entire manufacturing base, became more dependent on foreign oil (remember the Bush tax incentives to buy Hummers?), Our govt insulted the entire would (Old Europe), committed war crimes, and siphoned off the waelth of the middle class into the hands of uber wealthy oil men and defense contractors while pretty much bankrupting the US Govt. Oh yeah our military is also at a breaking point.

Yeah I guess a pretty good 6 years under the Republicans.

Obama was raised by his fairly wealthy grandparents and went to exclusive schools as a child. The Democrat candidates were very weak this year. Hillary is another person who has accomplished nothing.
Tell me what significant legislation has been introduced by Obama in the Senate?
Obama - spent 20 years closely aligned with a high-profile community figure as his pastor and Obama did not know, supposedly, that the pastor was a racist and flame-throwing anti-American. Obama refused to "disown" the pastor when the pastor's comments became public, then two weeks later Obama "disowned" him anyway because of the negative press. Obama was closely tied and involved in a shady real estate deal with Tony Rezko, a corrupt and convicted felon. He also has been closely involved and participated in fundraisers with a man, William Ayers, who in the past set off bombs against American targets and committed other domestic terrorist acts, and years later publicly stated that he wished he had set off more bombs. Obama - pledged unequivocally just months ago that he would use public financing for his campaign and then flip-flopped because he believes he will bring in more money otherwise, being a total hypocrite.

oh i foget to mention that during those 6 years - the Vice President shot someone in the face, and earned more money from Halliburton than he did as VP.

There was a gay hooker in the White House given press creditials and favored by the President to ask questions, a CIA operative was outed by the President and VP then they lied about it. As a result of the outing a top secret under cover entity tracking down weapons of mass destruction was blown and people were killed.

And John McCain was at Bush's side the entire time. He voted with Bush 95% of the time. Real Maverick!

It's a monologue with petrifitz. Conversation with him is impossible. Let him rant in peace.

petrfitz also likes to ignore facts that he doesn't like, such as the fact that Obama votes with his party to a far, far greater extent than McCain votes with his party.

Democratic Candidates were weak? Hillary and Obama got more votes than all the Republican candidates combined. The Democratic candidates were perhaps the strongest and most diverse group ever in history.

The first african american candidate who ran one of the most amazing campaigns ever, versus the first woman candidate who received more votes than McCain or any other candidate previously.

The only field that was weak was the pitiful Republican showing - a bunch of white men who tried to out Bush each other.

LIComment says "likes to ignore facts that he doesn't like, such as the fact that Obama votes with his party to a far, far greater extent than McCain votes with his party"

Please prove that. Also I have never said that Obama didnt vote with his party. That to me is a bonus. It means he was voting against the disasterous Bush policies.

I cant believe you are trying to defend what the republicans have done to this country.

I don't care what you've been registered as or who you've voted for. You called me a partisan republican because I said I hoped Obama would lose and that I didn't want higher taxes. You have ranted against the Republicans all day in this thread. Again who is the partisan?

I am not registered as a Republican. I did vote for Bush but I did it holding my nose. Until now, the democrats have nominated boring candidates who haven't inspired a lick, and I'm simply not prepared to vote for anyone who acts like I'm the bad guy (as Kerry did and as Obama seems to be doing). Its class warfare, blame the rich so the poor/middle will vote for you. I guess you have enough money now to feel guilty about your wealth, I'm not there yet.

petrfitz, where are you now?

no I am not stakan...sorry to disappoint

Petrfitz -
"Bush Fed lower interest rates to artificially prop up the economy." - You do know the Fed is independent and makes its own choices...OK, well at least now you do

"During those 6 years pretty much the entire homeowner equity in the US was siphoned away by the unregulated banks, personal bankruptcies at an all time high, two wars waged poorly, hundreds of thousands of people killed, major disaster in New Orleans which was poorly handled and people died (Oh Yeah on the day people were drowning what were McCain and Bush doing? Having Birthday cake together)" - Not sure what you mean, guy....homeowner equity went up in that time (it has only gone down in..get this...the last 2 years...when your Demos took charge)...did you not get the memo?

"The first african american candidate who ran one of the most amazing campaigns ever, versus the first woman candidate who received more votes than McCain or any other candidate previously. The only field that was weak was the pitiful Republican showing - a bunch of white men who tried to out Bush each other." - Funny last time i checked Obama is a "white man" just as much as the others...he is a great candiate, but to completly ignore his "european american" side is racist and does not do him justice

"The first african american candidate who ran one of the most amazing campaigns ever"

Pertfitz...was it the "Yes We Can!" or the "Chane We Can Believe In" that was the most amazing ever?

doh! Change

It was the Democrats who blocked the free market fixes to the Social Security system and who blocked increasing our oil production. Both the Republicans and the Democrats are guilty of tremendous government overspending. You should throw the blame around fairly if you are going to do it.

Obama ran such a great campaign that he stumbled to the finish line, losing more of last 14 primaries than he won.

The U.S. economy was in recession that began and was well underway when Bill Clinton was still in office. The Bush tax cuts helped keep that recession mild and pulled us out of it, helped the economy recover after 9/11, and even with the current slowdown, the U.S. economy is still growing. If Obama is elected, get ready for a disaster to the U.S. economy from higher taxes and anti-business policies.

Funny how everything that happened during the Republicans time and as a result of the Republican policies are the democrats fault. If it is not the dems fault it is the gays, the mexicans, the french, everyone but the guys who thought up and passed the disasterous legislation.

LICComment says "If Obama is elected, get ready for a disaster to the U.S. economy from higher taxes and anti-business policies."

Kind of like when Clinton was in office and we had a balanced budget, prosperity, low unemployment, and we actually won the wars we faught.

it truly is amazing how you can honestly believe that Republicans are the root of all evil and everything they touch turns to ash, while the poor helpless Democrats are the champions of all that is good and just in this world....I know thats what Daily Kos tries to push down peoples throats, and you seem to have fallen victim to BDS too (Bush Derangement Syndrome, and if you are unaware, it is when one's hatred for GWB is SO great, it clouds their judgment and makes them think anyone with an R before their name is Satan incarnate, and anything proposed by a (R) will do nothing but destroy the country).

Both parties have done good things and bad things for the country. But for someone who claims to be bi-partisan, your scale sure does lean to the left.

Sizzlack - maybe because the last 8 years have been about the Republicans wiping out our country, alienating the rest of the world, lying the country into wars, etc. That stuff kind of digs at me.

Remember when it was an impeachable offense to cheat on your wife? What happened to the party that impeached a president who cheted on his wife but then allowed a President from their own party to lie us into War and pilfer our economy?

The only thing I will say in response is that Clinton was impeached for lying under oath, not cheating on his wife. I think the impeachment was nonsense, but it was legitimate. For all of GWB's horrendous faults, I for one believe there is a difference between lying your way into war and believing faulty intelligence that was later proven to be wrong. It wasn't as if GWB was all alone here, many of your precious Dems voted with him in 2002 and 03.

Clinton was a moderate politically, and the country was in the middle of a recession when he left office. petrfitz, it is funny that you can't even see how your extreme wacked-out views make you look like a nutjob.

Reading this thread reminds me of what Lewis Black once said in his comedy stand-up

"Republicans are a party with bad ideas and Democrats are a party with no ideas."

They both stink. In the end both parties are controlled by lobbyists and special interest groups.

The Surge is working!

From the GAO today:

"The administration lacks an updated and comprehensive Iraq strategy to move beyond the "surge" of combat troops President Bush launched in January 2007 as an 18-month effort to curtail violence and build Iraqi democracy, government investigators said yesterday.

The report, after a bleak GAO assessment last summer, cited little improvement in the ability of the Iraqi security forces to act independently of the U.S. military, and noted that key legislation passed by the Iraqi parliament had not been implemented while other crucial laws had not been passed. The report also judged that key Iraqi ministries spent less of their allocated budgets last year than in previous years, and said that oil and electricity production had repeatedly not met U.S. targets."

You guys are right - things are goin gwell in Iraq. We are "winning!"

Thanks for showing us all the light!

Im voting Obama/Petrfitz '08!

YES WE CAN!

I think that it is Obama's "Yes we can" versus McCain's " I will live long enought to serve 4 years!"

The more you talk the more I think you are a disgruntled junior at UC Berkeley.

HMM - seems that Surge is NOT working. Deaths are up this month against last month:

" Three U.S. soldiers and an interpreter were killed by a roadside bomb in Ninewa Province on Tuesday night in the second large explosion to strike the Mosul region in a day and further evidence that Sunni Arab guerrillas remain very active in the northern city despite recent Iraqi military operations.

Few details of the attack were released by the American military, which said that an improvised explosive device killed the soldiers and interpreter about 10:45 p.m. At least 25 American service members have been killed in Iraq this month"

I am finished after this post because it is clear you selectively read what suits your warped positions and ignore anything else. You say deaths are up this month over last. Are you aware that last month (May) was the lowest death toll for U.S. Troops since the war began 5 years ago. Having it increase is a. not shocking and b. not proof that the surge is a failure. Iraq is a war zone and there are individuals trying to kill our troops on a daily basis. We all get it...you despise McCain and think Obama is the next Messiah. But try, for the sake of humanity, to open your eyes every once and a while.

the reverse logic you claim "because 1 month deaths were down that means the surge is working" I am just pointing out your flawed logic with 2 data points 1 - deaths are on the way back up over last month, 2 - the GAO report that basically said none of the goals of the surge have been achieved. Even more interesting the surge was supposed to last 6 months. We aare now 18 months into it and none of the golas have been achieved.

Who is cherry picking data to fit their warped position?

I am inherently flawed, unlike yourself...who is a golden god. Oh and who makes 250K a year, sometimes double, sometimes triple!

I think you should be the commander of Centcom too, you are clearly way more qualified than Petraeus or Odierno. Heck you have to GAO report!

the...doh

good day sir or madam, cant quite figure out what you are