The South Star

Anybody buy in this place?

Yes. Good per sq-ft price, nice layout, low maint but have to wait for at least 5-month for the conversion to complete.

Are the apartments tiny? The two bedroom layouts look nice but the square footage is small

crappy neighborhood good luck finding a grocery store or anything open after 5; super small layouts in an old rental building . . . 2nd class all the way . . .

I think there is a 24-hr Jubilee Marketplace nearby.

Yes, but John St is one of the most dull and gloomy streets in Manhattan. Good school dist though

Comment #5 about open grocery stores is clueless. Having lived down here for the past 8 months, I can tell you there are plenty of restaurants and grocery stores that are open in the area. While not as active as where we used to live in Union Square, finding open stores isn't an issue.

And even Zen Palate is opening up right there too! Not to mention Zeytuna Foods being a block up the road..

"I have a theory," says hotelier André Balazs, a 25-year resident of Soho whose Mercer Hotel was a milestone in the emergence of sophisto-chic hospitality in that once gritty quarter.

"There's a shift in the center of gravity of commercial, business and social life in Manhattan," he says. "The location of the advertising, fashion and film industries has come Downtown. I believe Houston Street is the new 57th Street and what's happening in Soho culturally and from a residential point of view is just beginning further Downtown.

"If Soho is the young, hip Midtown, then Wall Street is the new Soho. I see the same kind of movement there that I saw in Soho 18 years ago," says Balazs, who's still involved with old Soho, most recently by designing an ultra-luxury condominium at 40 Mercer Street.

"There's clearly a momentum," says Balazs, "a brotherhood amongst these buildings, which I think will add a lot to the neighborhood."

I saw the model apartments and they are very nice. May not be super class but definitely not second class - nicer than the Cocoa Exchange.

Must be selling well. Wasn't permitted access to open house during the advertised hours because I didn't have an appointment - but the NYTimes ad didn't specify appointment necessary. It was 12 degrees and colder with the wind on Super Bowl Sunday. Even the doorman seemed surprised that we weren't granted an audience with the sales center.

Next Sunday's ad did have an appointment request in it.

Hey Corcoran and Barrie Mandel - glad you can be so independent.

zeytuna and jubilee are not grocery stores. overpriced, oversized korean markets. (see the amish market in tribeca . . .same crappy overpriced pseudo grmet market) until the neighborhood gets a decent market and more than Stone Street's 5 great, yet identical pubs, it is going to be a long haul . .

Just because they wouldn't hire you to collect grocery carts is no reason to disparage these fine stores. It'd be pretty stupid to base a house purchase decison on a perceived lack of nice grocery stores in a growing area. As the area grows, I'm sure you'll be able to fulfill your destiny in the grocery business.

Growth of the nbhd will not make John St bright and sunny. Grocery stores matter to many people and it will be a long long wait before something nice opens there

I agreed with #14.The new Fulton St station and WTC development projects will improve downtown area. Anyway, John St is not that bad - it has Zen Palate and Jubilee Marketplace!

Close to century 21, JR electronics store -it rocks

guys -- this place is close to neither the Fulton St hub, J&R or Century 21. This is waaay down on John in the dark armpit before the seaport and away from most of the development of the FD (Starck, Beaver, Cirpriani) . .. will be a very lonely existance here for a while.

plus those markets really suck. really. I would take a good old korean deli rip-off any day. At least they let me slide when I am short a nickle . ..

number 18 this is number 17-my comment was sarcastic. This area sucks IMO. Only good if you have a 17hr/day job in that area. No resale prospects of any sort

looking to buy an apt in the fd area.good info about john st.but will still check out south star as it is selling very well.

What's this "need an appointment to attend the open house'? I can see that on Park or Fifth or Sutton, but apparently this is not that fancy. Go figure. You're right, they apparently don't need the business - and they shan't get mine. I can give attitude, too!

Starck, Beaver, Cirpriani are even further away from any sort of grocery stores. Ever walk by those streets on weekends and nights? John St gets alot of foot traffic from the Seaport and the NYU dorm.

"This place is close to neither the Fulton St hub, J&R or Century 21"
Where do you get your info from? This is one block from the Fulton St entrance. Much,much closer to J&R or Century 21 than any of the other major developments.

I saw the South Star apartments recently and did not recall open house.It is very close to the Fulton St station - specially if you get out from the John St exit - just a block away.It is definitely not the worse street in NYC.In fact, you can see the FD area is developing.

Between living at 99 John & now at 2 Gold, I've rented in this area for 5 years now and am currently looking to buy. 80 John - nice building, easy access to multiple train lines, multiple stores/restaurants open late or 24 hour. The trashy Fulton street corridor is slowly getting a major facelift with 2 million dollar condos going up right and left. Low end retail is getting pushed out in anticipation of tourist traffic that will go from the new Freedom Tower to the Seaport, which is also undergoing a major facelift. If multiple trains choices don't work for you, quick cab up the FDR or West Side Hwy will get you wherever you want to go quickly. There is a feeling of isolation though it's easy to get anywhere in Manhattan. There is also a high rental demand in this area if you don't stay long term. I love it down here but my friends think I live on Staten Island. With condo conversions going up on every corner, the upside is strong. 5 years ago, there wasn't even a diner open on Saturday - all of that has changed and continually getting better.

Oh...one more thing. If Zeytuna or Jubilee aren't good enough for you, there is an Associated on the NE corner of Fulton and Gold, one block away. I think it's tragic and don't shop there...but that's a 3rd choice for general grocery shopping all within one block from your address.

is anyone nervous about buying so close to wall street...in case of another terrorist attack??

"is anyone nervous about buying so close to wall street…in case of another terrorist attack??" If I lived in 15 Broad or any of the buildings on Wall St, possibly.

There will be an amazing new 75 storey apartment tower built just three blocks north:

Bruce Ratner's Beekman Street project, architected by none other than Frank Gehry.

Work is already well under way and its going to be spectacular!

all these crazy comments about no grocery ... Fresh direct is a great primary store with Jubille (a very busy well run extremely efficient store 24-7) Zeytuna (a little more gourmet-type) and lastly Associated (kind of icky) all providing efficient convienient food purchasing - far closer better options than MANY areas of NYC - lived w/in blocks for 4y

Its not two blocks from the first entrance to the subway (yes the John street entrance to the developing Fulton station - to be the largest subway hub in NYC) allowing you to be on the E or W side or 3 other boroughs on ONE train

By the way about 10 mo ago the fulton street redevelopment project was funded for 38 mill to redevelop from WTC to Seaport - bringin all storefronts to origional, widening sidewalks, benches, trees, and promoting new - better commercial options. This will definately improve the value of the area

It is in PS234 for those who care

All that in mind I think their current price point is on the high side - >1K/ft should be closer to 900/ft IMO

Re: grocery stores, there's also supposed to be a Gristedes coming in at 90 Maiden Lane (Gold and Maiden Lane)

I purchased one unit for ~$800/ft.>$1000/ft are on the high floors.

re: the subway: there are entrances to the fulton street station (think 4,5,2,3) all along the area, especially on john st, not to mention that the r/w, j/m/z and the 6 are an 8 minute walk away at city hall. also, the wtc path station is a 10 minute (not even) walk away for those who need to go to newark airport ever.

re: restaurants/things closing early: not true at all, in fact. not only is there the well known stone street maybe a 10 minute walk away (think ulysses, adrienne's pizza bar- amazing- smorgas chef, irish pubs, charming atmosphere, etc) but the developing neighborhood just north of the seaport (front street, peck slip, that area) is becoming a very fun, adorable, lively destination, even on the weekends (and yes, late at night.) you can go to the bridge cafe (they serve food until midnight and are open at the bar until very late,) a restaurant that has been around since the 1790's (amazing, consistent food,) il brigante, salud (live cuban jazz every thursday night,) jack's (BEST coffee in nyc,) bin 220 (an amazing wine bar, great for dates,) acqua, mark joseph (one of the best even if very pricey steakhouses in nyc,)- also, there is a new 24/7 diner that opened at 2 gold st just last week (very cute, not very diner-ish.) also, right on john st is a great satellite of the uptown french restaurant les halles- very charming, excellent steak frites. jubilee is diagonal from 80 john (yes, pricey, but what isn't in manhattan? very, very convenient since it's open 24/7.) there is a gym right in the building (this includes a steam room and personal trainers, masseuse, etc,) and a dry cleaner right next door to the building. also, keep in mind that this neighborhood is within 10 minutes of tribeca yet is much more affordable. come down to this area on a saturday afternoon and see just what a ghost town it is (only the people who have never been here ever say that.) ...and i didn't even mention the seaport, really.

Any thoughts on future resell value of 80 John compared to the other buildings in the neighborhood. Will the lack of amenities be a plus (lower maintenance) or a negative?

80 john st has garage, dry cleaning service and gym.59 john st apartments with about the same prices are smaller and have higher maintenance.i personally would buy larger apartment with lower maintenance-i.e.better per sq ft value.

Actually only two 1 year memberships are included.

As the maint is pretty low, the buyers could use the savings to join their own choice of gym.if they don't exercise, even more savings!

Give me a break about no grocery stores in the FD.

Jubilee, ZeyTuna, Associated, Any of you uptowners use Fresh Direct??? And now Gristedes is opening on Maiden Lane. I dont think they would open another grocery store if they didnt see any progress.

Oh and how about progress? They are opening a Tiffany's, Prada, Chanel, Hermes all along Wall St. Stop by in another year and wish you understood what investing in an area that has alot of growth opportunity means. Not to mention the $40 billion that is getting pumped into the neighborhood right now with a ton of improvement projects. I challenge you to find anywhere in the U.S. that that kind of money is getting injected into improvements within a 2 mile radius.

Yeah. I have to agree with #41, at least as far as grocery stores go. Other very popular neighborhoods are in some cases in worse shape for grocery stores...

Is anyone nervous about being so close to Wall Street in case of another attack?

I would be more nervous if i had to take the subway to work everyday. At least living on wall st i walk to work.

I dont think anywhere in Manhattan is protected from another terrorist attack. So if you live in Manhattan and are nervous about it then move. In the meantime the rest of us will enjoy living here and not live in fear.

Grocery shopping was resolved for us downtown when Fresh Direct came on the scene! Fabulous company that we all love! Fresh Direct is great since you don't have to carry heavy items and they have many varied organics now and very cost effective for Manhattan.

Any buyers of Southstar experiencing problems with the floors?

quality or installation problem?

Installation.

I did have slight installation problem where the floors did not have enough glue - it was fixed immediately.I do find it quite easily scratched though.Otherwise,very happy with the apartment.

How did you get it fixed so fast? I've been waiting over 3 weeks for the floor guys.

I tipped the super when I first moved in :-)

Interesting and positive article on the FD. Just bought at 80 John and believe it was a good decision. Time will tell though...

http://www.observer.com/2007/love-nests-repopulate-financial-district

# 53, did you also see other units - e.g 59 John St, 90 Williams, 15 Broad, etc? Why 80 John St? I'm also buying and appreciate you input. Thanks!

Ultimately, the deciding factor was the layout of the apt - split 2 bdrm, open kitchen. Looked at Cocoa Exchange, Armani Casa, 20 Pine, William Beaver, Nassau, multiple listings in BPC. 90 William wasn't showing yet. Too nervous to seriously consider the pre-con bldgs - needed to actually see the finished product and seemed like too much of a leap of faith, as first time buyers, to buy pre-con. 80 John seemed to have a casualness about it, that was appealing. Some of the other bldgs seemed intent on being splashy and hotel-like. Also, 80 John, at the time, was the only place in the FD/DT where purchasing a 2 bd/2 bth for under $1,000/sq ft was possible. An added bonus, but certainly not a decision maker was the 1 year gym membership next door and 3 yr rooftop/pool access at the Gansevoort. Many friends have been discouraging of the purchase in the FD, but we work in the FD and looking forward to being a part of the new wave of pioneers, helping to revitalize lower Manhattan. Could be a bad decision, but I believe in the neighborhood. Good luck!

I agree with #55. Those amenities aren't free at the other buildings. I was worried that these buildings with all the spa/hotel like amenities are pricing the maintenance low but will substantially raise them in the near future. With 80 John there are no amenities except the Gansevoort access and the 1yr Gym so that should not be a problem.
I had a friend who looked at 90 William last week and commented the finishes were not a nice as 80 John as well as they were using cheaper appliances.

#55, #56, appreciate your feedback! I also cheked out The District - very modern, nice amenities, cables/speakers pre-wired + remote control.But the kitchen is not functional - except for 2 BB apartments. What's up with the new trend where people puts microwave underneath the counter - I use it almost everyday!Studios and 1 BB bathrooms are very large but do not have bathtab and not enough storage space.I think you are right about 80 John St, it seems to have the best quality, cheapest in psf and maintenance.

i'm in contract at 59 john, and i just wanted to say that i am very glad to see other potential FD "pioneers" on this board! i saw 80 john, and liked some units there as well, but ultimately i decided i wanted more space. good luck with your choice-

Anyone at 80 John get there property tax bill yet?

Anyone at 80 John get there property tax bill yet?

Yes, the 421G was not reflected! I'm going to call the sales office as the sponsor should take care of it. #59, do you have the same issue?

question--they still have the old washer dryer units from when it was a rental---the cheapness is why I looked elsewhere.

I think so but this is the first I've heard of someone turned down an apt for washer/dryer that are not located in the apt. The factors are usually location, condition, layout, ceiling height, view, light, etc. Anyway, I heard that they will install additional washer/dryer per floor.

How can you tell if it was properly reflected. I received my bill and it seems slightly high.
Although there is a section in the tax bill that says Resid-Conv Low Manh.

Do you take the amount in Projected Monthly Re Taxes Assuming Exemption Under Section 421-G and multiply by four?

#63--For a purportedly gut rehab, for them to have been so cheap as to not replace the 7 yr old washer dryer units, smacks of cheapness in other areas. The place just looked cheaply done. I'm sure you'll get some schmuck to buy once you decide to sell, but you'll have to live there in the interim. enjoy.

I checked out 80 John cause the price seemed relatively low for the area but as soon as I stepped into the bldg I knew why. Definitely not "luxury" as other new developments and conversions, but I know some ppl don't care for it. Some units in this bldg are ridiculous though. Windows facing into interior walls and weird shaped layouts didn't do it for me. But those who got the better units, I'm sure they're great for the price.

I was told the residential conv lower manhattan credit is the 421g credit? My hope is that is not correct and we are due another credit.... I have sent all this information to my Attorney/Accountant to review.

I was told the residential conv lower manhattan credit is the 421g credit? My hope is that is not correct and we are due another credit.... I have sent all this information to my Attorney/Accountant to review.

#68, I have seen worst and 80 JS actually did a pretty good job. They have good psf price (paid ~$720 psf), high end appliances, low maintenance, nice layout (except for the one mentioned by #69), nice staff. Yes, it is not 'luxury' but I don't really care. Lived in luxury buildings for years, paid very high maintenance and large sum of holiday tips - I now can save more for retirement or future investments! At the end of the day, it really depends on that is more important to you. Good luck with your search! I'm very happy with 80 JS!!

Well the management office is of no help, as usual. I really hate dealing with you know who in that office. She basically told me to talk to the city and said she never heard of 421G, abatements or anything related. She claimed the city raised the taxes, when I told her the discrepancy from the taxes in the offering plan and my tax bill.

Who should I contact to get this resolved?

I don't think mgmt office is responsible for the tax. Did you try the sales office? I'm going this weekend to get them to get the sponsor to 'fix' the problem.

I have been told the 421g is "current and active" by the sales office. When I called WSA management they told me the residential conversion lower mannhattan credit (which is on my property taxes) is the 421g. WSA management are the ones responsible for the tax and they confirmed that the tax is in place. They also said the estimates on the Southstar materials are from May 2006. My actual taxes are almost double of the figures they gave!

It appears our tax bills are correct! I'm hearing the company line is please refer to pages 132 & 133 in the offering plan, and that your Attorney should have reviewed this with you before purchase. Waiting to hear back from my Attorney about possible next steps, but not sure what can be done?

We looked at the South Star and weren't impressed. Tiny bedrooms opening right off the living room, VERY dark, views into the Holiday Inn across the street or brick walls from the bedrooms and in the case of the I line, awkward, pie-shaped rooms. The finishes in the kitchen were not as deluxe as advertised, either. The school zone is great, but at nearly $900k, we didn't think it was worth the price despite the split beds and two baths.

I don't like the I line either. Some 2 BBs (high floor) are very nice but they are out of my limit. However, I do like the kitchen except I prefer the gas cooker.

The i line is great if you have kids because of the separation between the the kitchen/living area and the bedrooms. ...Also the i line price per sq ft was hard to beat anywhere in Manhattan...But i do understand that they are not for everyone....

Except that the room with the master bath is the one furthest from the living area (it's actually the home office--odd that it's the one with the master bath, but I guess they figured the parents wouldn't want to be in a bedroom that is 8 feet wide).

Re: taxes, it's possible that the 421-G abatement just hasn't kicked in yet. Had the same issue at another downtown conversion. Depending on when the filings were made, the abatement may not kick in until July (now) or next January. So you'd have to pay until then but then you get a few more months on the back end (i.e. the full 12 or 14 years).

Shouldn't the 421-G have kicked in long ago since this was a rental conversion to condo?

On the Southstar website they took off the estimated taxes for each available unit, and left them blank.

They have now adjusted them to reflect the higher taxes!

Some of those taxes they list don't seem to make sense. Why are some units larger and more expensive but have the same taxes than smaller cheaper units.

Sounds sketchy. We reluctantly decided not to buy there and I had some regrets. Maybe my gut was right.

properties were re-appraised this year and taxes adjusted accordingly. many nyc property owners are getting some surprising upward adjustments in their city tax statements. apparently the management company can contest the increase - and most likely already has as they are also getting hit by the increased taxes on unsold units. any adjustment by the city in response to a contested increase - however unlikely - would be retroactive. the originally posted taxes were accurate estimates at the time they were published.

. . . . thus saith our attorney.

would hate to be a in a building where the common charges are already high for unwanted amenities *and* the taxes are higher now due to a re-appraisal.

Pretty much the same story we got from our Attorney.

the slick direct from central casting sales guy in that place turned me off. dude was confrontational, the "are you good/rich enough to live here" sales pitch. huge turn off. that and the indescribably small/awkward "patio" in the clumsily shaped apartments they showed us. There was one on the 23rd floor which looked ok but that and the old ratty washer/dryers which they conveniently skipped on the tour did it for me. oh, that and the "gym" which isn't even in the building but is appended thereto. the one up the block, think its 51 John looked much better, but we just didn't like the block and definitely didn't like 80 John.

not very nice of you Ki

So will the taxes 7 years from now be around triple the new tax rates?

should be more like double. I am also hearing unconfirmed news that the real estate taxes may go down significantly due to an error made by the department of finance regarding the application of the 421-G. The correction will be retroactive if/when it is confirmed...

any updates on the property taxes?

I'm also interested to know if there are updates on the property tax. BTW, update to the posts about 'old' washers/dryers, 80 John St just installed new washers/dryers.

Cara should get her SCAM off this broad

Three units all put on the market within a week of one another - can anyone who lives here comment on if there is an issue with the building? I am thinking maybe the tax abatement has just run out?

Of the six for sale, all but one (#15E) are asking more than they paid in 2007. Recent resales have been for much less than 2007 prices, so those five must not be in any rush.

I feel bad for most of the owners there because they purchased at the very peak of the market.

It's not a bad bldg., but there is nothing special about it to justify those prices. Also, I personally find that stretch of John St. to be a bit chaotic, with the heavy pedestrian traffic (tourists, NYC workers, & those kids living @ 99 John).

Does anyone living in 80 John know the annual property management fee(shown as a line item in the year-end financial statment sent to unit owners) for this building or similar buildings in the Financial District?

Are you happy with the managing agent's services?

Thank you for you help or suggestions on where to obtain.

The doormen are not friendly (with the exception of one). Man must be rough for them come the holidays...sheesh!

thinking of purchasing an apt at 80 john street. can anyone tell me how much the gym and garage fees are? what about the washer/dryer - there's only one set per floor it appears, and it looks pretty old. does anyone have a problem with that?

Looking at this condo too. Vanna, you mean gym fees are not part of the condo fees? Has the tax abatement run out?

The gym is separate but not very expensive. Compared to other buildings, the condo fees are relatively low though the tax abatement has run out.

Building is well managed and well maintained and the staff is great. Some of the earlier posts reflect mostly on the previous management company which was awful.

Most owners seem very happy here. Overall would recommend.

Why are the taxes much higher than say, 99 John Street? Is there still tax abatement in 99 John?

This might be the best run building downtown. They had a generator and 24/7 service from the doormen and janitors throughout the Sandy blackout. Amazing!