Sale at 340 West 57th Street #8I

Nothing wrong with unit that I can see - nice layout, good location (although maybe not for some), reasonable common charges, decent amenities. Price psf seems on the low side (especially compared to The Sheffield next door) but its a pretty big total price for a one-bedroom that probably cannot be changed into a two.

Is it just another "aspirational" listing or is it a sign of the times that the mid-tier Manhattan sales market is getting softer?

Building is planning some additional amenities such as a gym, additional storage space and new roof deck features that will probably mean higher maintenance of 5-10%. Ae these new amenities cost affective and/or needed?

Definitely well into aspirational price. The building has single pane windows. Window ac units and inability to convert this into 2 bed room. The area continues to get nicer with more restaurants in hell's kitchen and development of Billionaire's row. I think $1.3-$1.5mm could probably move if the renovation is nice. If it were to be a real 2 bed room (it certainly has the space for it), it would have sold more easily. This type of product and pricing does not tell you much about the market.

Similar apartment but with nicer reno sold for $1.63mm recently. So probably $1.5mm is the right price.

BTW, I think the location is great. 57th/58th around 9th ave are somewhat underrated given proximity to the Park, Lincoln center, Time Warner and subways but that is changing fast with the West side development and the wealthiest people moving close by which will continue to bring more restaurants and amenities.

Ximon, I do not see that many apartments in Sheffield in low floors? Are lower floors rentals or commercial space? Also, window ac and single pane windows get a big discount as you can not change that easily. I would think at least 10 precent if not 15 percent.

Don't remember exactly what is on lower floors but don't think there are rentals other than rent regulated tenants in residence before developer Kent Swig tried to convert at the height of the last boom. There is some commercial space and maybe community space. Lower floor views are partially blocked by the Hearst building on 8th Ave. I looked at Sheffield when developer was shopping for financing and you may know it became a nightmare when the conversion plan was held up for a long time due to litigation from holdover tenants. What a fiasco. Building deserved better as its a nice project.

So you value window a/c's and single panes at a 10-15% discount?

10-15% at least if you can not fix it without building wide changes. That is one of the reasons for new development premium as windows are always upto the latest standards (and uniform across the building) and there is central ac leading better to better aesthetics as well. No one wants to pay $1500-$2000 per sq ft with window acs hanging and dripping from the windows unless you are one of those prestigious coops in a prime area and you are willing to sacrifice a window in the maids room for central ac.

BTW, the building is beautiful with central courtyard and the board should do something about this issue.

Thanks 300. Yes, new builds offer some better athletics but so does prewar. Wasn't there always a pre-war premium based on ceiling heights, larger room sizes, etc?

340W57 board should do something with garden? Looks pretty nice.

board should something about the single pane windows and acs.

There are pre-war conversions. For example 426 West 58th with Cetra Rudy of Walker Fame as the conversion architect. Much higher quality but more expensive maintenance due to fewer units with doorman. Back units suffer from a lack of light.

Let me weigh in, since I'm an owner in the Parc Vendome (though on the 56th street side). The building was historically the first nice building in Midtown west of Eighth Avenue, and its prewar aesthetics (as well as the garden, which Sheffield residents get to look at for free) were a large draw for me, as well as for many owners. Changing over the windows would cost a fortune, because the existing windows aren't set in modern frames, but the steel actually goes into the brick (which was the technology at the time). I'm not sure that anyone wants to do it, or that Landmarks would approve it even if the desire were there.

Regardless, the kind of person who wants a 600-unit building with a full-service staff (and an extraordinary board and management team -- that building runs like a Swiss watch) is probably not the same buyer who wants a double-height loft in a prewar shell in a boutique doorman building. The two may be situated near each other, and they're each terrific in their own way, but I don't think they're good comparables for each other.

Good point Ali. I was not comparing 426 to Parc Vendome but simply pointing out that there are pre-war buildings which have been updated with double plan window and do not have window acs. Re Parc Vendome, I believe it is possible to line frames from inside (without doing into the brick) and replace the moving part of the window with double pane. Skyline windows in Bronx is a good resource to provide recommendation. They have done several historical replacements for energy efficiency and sound proofing.

Thanks for the window rec, 300 ... I have a separate project that I might call them about.

Skyline is expensive. If you do not need matching historical replacement, I would just go to Barbara at Dykes in Harlem. They represent most manufacturers.

Swapping out the windows may be beneficial in some ways but it definitely hurts the pre-war charm of these units.

My old coop on CPW swapped out their old steel casements for new aluminum double-hungs in order to refinance the underlying mortgage back in the 1980's. Everyone now thinks that was a big mistake. And I have seen high-end replacements in other pre-wars that look OK from a distance but cheap up close.

You can get very nice looking replacements from Skyline. Depends on what you are willing to spend.

https://www.steinereastvillage.com/

This is the Rolls-Royce and there are many other alternatives where you can not tell the difference.

http://www.steelwindowsanddoors.com/products/hot-rolled-steel/

Some of those hot rolled windows look nice. I replaced a small kitchen window with a custom steel casement for $8,500. Happy about the result but could never afford to do whole apt. My building chucked the lot of the originals.

You can do the Steiner east village look for a lot cheaper than the number you mention. Plenty of expensive townhouses in ny replacing their front windows with historic casement windows with squares ( subsections). The frame of the windows which holds the glass is slightly thicker with non steel but you get the same look. Landmarks approves due to energy efficiency. I am guessing you live in the building. If you want connect with me directly 300streeteasy@gmail.com.

I used to own at unit at 340W57 but flipped it a couple of years ago. I am looking to trade down to a smaller one bedroom but prices at Parc Vendome has gone up a lot and I wonder if there is any upside in these prices which although lower psf than Sheffield, maybe make sense based on your thoughts.

Economics leads most Coops & Condos doing building wide replacements to use Windows which are aesthetically inferior to what is being replaced.

So Vendome won't allow for any internal wall to be built? (to convert to 2nd "bedroom") What's the reasoning behind this, aside from not wanting kids/families in the building :)

From the floor plan of 8I, you cannot construct an interior wall to create a legal 2nd bedroom. You could create an enormous walk in closet, or office, or storage, but this is the sort of witless modification that I would want to discourage, were I a board member.

Aaron2, I assume you mean partitioning at the street side of the living room? I saw a unit for sale in the PV about a year ago that did exactly that. Problem is that it subdivides the best part of the living room and leaves the LR with only two windows.

Best place for a 2nd bedroom IMO is at the living room area near the foyer as there is already a closet and possible a doorway off the foyer. Only problem is that it would be considered a study not a legal bedroom. Also not sure if the board would approve.

Other possibilities include partitioning a legal bedroom at the kitchen and moving the kitchen to the dining area. This may not be legal though as kitchen windows at the PV are usually pretty small.

If adding a 2nd bedroom lowers the value of the apt., I would agree that the board may not want to allow it. But if there is no negative impact on value, board should stay out of it IMO, especially since this project is a condo not a coop.

tower_talk, I am not sure but have been told board may not allow partitioning. Reasoning may be that building code may not allow or it may be a fire hazard if no means of egress.

The only reason the for the board disallowing renovations should be matters of legality. Condo boards should stay out of making judgements based on what they think the impact on value will be.

I was thinking of partitioning off the dining/den area (though illegal 'bedroom': no window), but yes, if the plumbing and gas line configuration and window situation was amenable you could rearrange the dining/kitchen area and get a 2nd bedroom out of it. Though that seems like a pricey renovation on top of 1.8m ask, and it's a dinky window for a bedroom.

I forgot it was a condo. I generally agree that condo owners should be allowed to destroy value in their unit if they so choose.

This unit added the illegal bedroom and expanded their kitchen by taking over a bedroom closet. Very tasteful but only moderate reno. Sold for $1.63 about four months ago or $1,399 psf.
https://streeteasy.com/sale/1274121

This unit did the same thing plus added a washer/dryer closet but had the benefit of a window to make the added bedroom legal. Sold for $1.975 in Oct. 2015 or $1,651 psf.
https://streeteasy.com/sale/1147532

Very good data point for additional bedroom with window as the space is sufficient.

Did 8B actually sell for that? The last deed transfer I see is from 2011.

I double checked it on Acris. Yes, $1,975,000 on 10/7/15. Seems hard to fully understand but suggests that an extra legal bedroom is worth a great premium. Maybe even an illegal (windowless) one.

Nice layout for 8B and clever configuration. Advantage of a corner unit, I suppose.

The listing was apparently pulled in the last month.

Looking for a closed sale, I found that this unit which was offered at $1,850,000, last sold in April 2012 for $865,0000. I assume moderate reno was done after this 2012 sale. I am guessing no one offered the seller's bottom line price.

That kitchen is a real problem for anyone who actually wants to cook. There is nowhere near enough clearance around between the stove and the cabinetry opposite. Looks impossible to open the stove properly, especially if you're trying to maneuver a large pan into the stove. What a dumb layout.

That kitchen is a real problem for anyone who actually wants to cook. There is nowhere near enough clearance around between the stove and the cabinetry opposite. Looks impossible to open the stove properly, especially if you're trying to maneuver a large pan into the stove. What a dumb layout.

apologies for the double post...

Yes, Squid. I think they cut some corners on the reno. Kitchen was expanded but not enough. Still a bit claustrophobic as well as somewhat disfunctional as you said. Seems a lot of owners either to too much work or too little. I start with trying to improve the basic layout and work from there.

One thing which drives me nuts but you see all the time even in kitchens designed by so-called professionals is having the stove right up against a wall or refrigerator.