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How many Sq Ft???

Started by Ethan129
almost 8 years ago
Posts: 157
Member since: Sep 2007
Discussion about 201 West 72nd Street #17C
I love condo listings which "neglect" to list their square footage. We all know why this happens......it's because the apt is really, really small. This apt seems to fit the bill. It is a 2 bedroom, 2 bath place but adding up the sq ft, excluding the terrace, gets me to around 900 or so sq ft. For $2.6 million??? Dream on, baby. Price has got to come down to around $2 million in order to sell.
Response by 30yrs_RE_20_in_REO
almost 8 years ago
Posts: 9877
Member since: Mar 2009

I would rather have them leave it off then list an overly inflated square footage.

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Response by john81
almost 8 years ago
Posts: 21
Member since: Mar 2018

If you look online you will find out that the gross sq ft is 1002..
I agree with 30yrs, at least in this case they simply avoid to provide the sq ft, but I really hate what they are doing here for example (list 8800 sq ft or $1,363 sq ft when they have 6500 sq ft, or $1,850 sq ft!!!)
https://streeteasy.com/talk/discussion/43614-townhouse-why-has-not-it-sold

How is the consumer protected when RE Broker can do that without any consequence? Not to talk about the dual agency scam.

Only SE seems to care, at least they allowed me to post.

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Response by urbandigs
almost 8 years ago
Posts: 3629
Member since: Jan 2006
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Response by john81
almost 8 years ago
Posts: 21
Member since: Mar 2018

$2,590 sq ft for this??

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Response by karanc
almost 8 years ago
Posts: 32
Member since: Jun 2012

My estimate is 1,070 sqft with 120 sq/ft of outdoor space. One common practice is including half of the outdoor square footage into the listing. That translates into 1,130 sqft or $2,296 PSF

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Response by CCL3
over 7 years ago
Posts: 430
Member since: Jul 2014

It's small and the finishes look dated by a decade, but how much of a premium is reasonable for desirable location?

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Response by ximon
over 7 years ago
Posts: 1196
Member since: Aug 2012

REBNY has no standards for measuring apartments as far as I know but there were standards used in the past. For units on multiple tenanted floors, we measured from the midpoint in demising walls and to the glass in exterior windows. For townhouses and full-floor lofts, we used exterior dimensions. Never gave credit to building amenities or other common areas. That only was permitted for office buildings. But however you measure, this would not be a problem if all offering plans would indicate (and listings would reflect) the usable SF in addition to the "official" SF. An appraiser's and a lender's job is all the harder when data is flawed and "elastic" measuring sticks make a mockery of the process and makes every professional involved look foolish or worse.

Here is a pretty detailed analysis of the problem from 2011:
http://www.warburgrealty.com/2011/12/measure-for-measure-part-2/

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Response by john81
over 7 years ago
Posts: 21
Member since: Mar 2018

Karnac: balcony cannot be added to the apt sq ft! The are rules about sq ft, may be not Rebny rules, but many others. Also, who really cares about your personal estimate when the sq ft is on the offering plan?

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Response by Ethan129
over 7 years ago
Posts: 157
Member since: Sep 2007

Most of the comments above are missing the point. The FACT is the the livable sq ft in the apt is +/- 800 sq ft. The terrace I would value at approx $100,000. Renovations will probably offset terrace value. So we're left with how to value 800 sq ft in a mediocre at-best, almost 30 year old building that's in increasing need of repairs. It is a 2BR/2BA so it's clearly worth more than one would pay for a 1BR/1BA even though this apt has the sq ft of a typical 1 BR/1BA. If anyone pays more than 1.75 million for this place, I say good luck. They won't be making any money on this place, irrespective of how long they hold it for.

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Response by ximon
over 7 years ago
Posts: 1196
Member since: Aug 2012

I think the terrace is worth much more than $833psf. Gone I believe are the days when outdoor space should be discounted 50% from indoor space. This terrace is narrow but looks accessible from both the living room and master bedroom, basically a wrap terrace adding much more spaciousness to the feel of the apt. not to mention more light, air and additional entertaining space.

I like the location as well and don't mind that the condition is not new. Certainly not "generously-proportioned" though. Best of all, Alex Fletcher and Sophie Fisher wrote "A Way Back Into Love" here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qrkapxFihM

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Response by 300_mercer
over 7 years ago
Posts: 10570
Member since: Feb 2007

Small well laid out 2 bed room apartments are at premium pre sq ft. I can see some one paying $7k in rent for this apartment and $2.2-2.4mm. It is nicely renovated and the supply is limited for 2 bedrooms at this price point on the upper west side. The rent for larger apartments (say 2000 sq ft 3 bed room) per sq ft is less. That is why Related always has the smallest possible apartments with the highest per sq ft rent.

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Response by 30yrs_RE_20_in_REO
over 7 years ago
Posts: 9877
Member since: Mar 2009

The idea that exterior square footage should be calculated at so fixed discount to exterior square footage is fallacious. Let's say you had two 500sf studios with some form of park view on high floor in a pre-war building. One of them also has a 10x15 setback terrace. I can easily see it going for up to twice as much as the one without the Terrace. So in this case, exterior square footage commands up to three times the price of interior square footage.

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Response by 30yrs_RE_20_in_REO
over 7 years ago
Posts: 9877
Member since: Mar 2009

Another example:
You have two apartments right next door to each other in the same building. One is a studio and one is an 8 room apartment. Adding a 100 square foot Terrace to both Apartments might increase the value of the studio by $400,000, but adding that same Terrace might increase the value of the 8 room apartment by close to $2 million.

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Response by ximon
over 7 years ago
Posts: 1196
Member since: Aug 2012

I think that's right 30. I remember years ago appraising a 2 bedroom on Sutton Place South that had direct river views. But the only comps I could find in the building were similarly configured apts. with completely obstructed views. The unit I was appraising was selling for $1 million more than the comps. I finally found it - a million dollar view!

With outdoor space, the value really depends on what you are getting that you don't have without the view. A beautiful terrace can turn a dump into a castle.

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