A little piece of history

It's been on the market at the same price since 2014. Good B&B conversion perhaps.

I do not know where it is landmarked. If it is not, some developer will do build extra square footage and turn it into condos.

A) I have a friend who lives on that block . He regularly hears gunshots at night. He pays $2,600/month for a 3br, 2 full floors plus basement plus a full garden.
B) How much do you think this sells for in $/SF AFTER doing a $400/SF renovation? Now add the costs of doing a condominium conversion, carrying (which will be at least double that of simply doing a renovation to move in yourself), marketing, and selling. What number do you think you have to buy at to make a decent profit?
C) This is exactly the king of property I think willed get hammered in the upcoming correction: marginal area where you couldn't give properties away, then rampant speculation and unjustifiable price inflation which could easily return to impossible to sell unless prices plummet in an extreme manner.
D) What is a realistic cash on cash return do you need to buy an investment property in such an area without assuming monstrous price appreciation? 6%? (which, BTW I would find to be moronically on the low side). What do you think after expense cash flow is going to be? $10,000 if you get extremely lucky? Even then you get a valuation of $2 million.

30, You have good points. It is clearly overpriced if being on the market for ever is any indication. What some one will pay for will depend on what they do with extra land. In this type of area, current cap rate is 4% like it or not. Manhattan is 2.5%-3% range for individual condo/coop, and probably low 3% for multi-family. So perhaps $3mm without alternate usage using your $10k number. I just do not know enough so can not say what value some one will put on extra land.

When you read about people buying in these areas at a 4% cap rate it can be misleading because often it is on the assumption that the buyer will be able to get rid of the current tenants and double or triple the rent roll. Anyone buying in this area with rents already at market at a 4% cap rate is getting laughed at.

An exceptional property no doubt. Certainly an over-improvement for the neighborhood but maybe in 10 years it will be quite valuable. Can't imagine a condo conversion making sense in this cycle but also can't imagine anyone using as a single family at least not long term. Condo conversion potential is also not feasible in this cycle IMO. Can't imagine what it is worth today but maybe converting the upper two floors to rental would make it financially feasible at some number.

What are the taxes? Could not find. Still, maybe an interesting play for a long-term buyer at the right number. Location will only get better.

BTW, I think gross returns in Manhattan coop/condo are 2% at best.

Example: asking 4.55% cap rate and not getting offers anywhere close to that with rents noted as "All units are grossly under market, collecting an average rent of less than $1300 on average, representing enormous upside in rents over time."

http://www.loopnet.com/Listing/304-Stuyvesant-Ave-Brooklyn-NY/13130393/

Looks like taxes are $6400?

30, 304 Stuy is purely a yield play at around $400 psf. Different animal to 247 Hancock, worse location. But yes, yields in Bed-Stuy should be around 2% higher than Manhattan.

30, Loopnet stated cap rates inflated by 50-75bps in most cases if not more. What is your experience? Let us say the one posted is $2.5mm. Where does this put Hancock st mansion. I think at least 1.5mm premium. There is a lot of land. Could some one build condos at the side? Say land cost 150 per buildable sq ft.

Best use for a while may be as offices for a charitable or educational organization that has strong connections to the neighborhood, and has a long-term view, rather than the 'investors' view. Hopefully they wouldn't make too much of a mess of the inside.

Makes sense.

Thoughts on price?

Pretty sure that's the R6B zoning, which means you can't build a lot more than is already there, but not exactly my area of expertise.

I have a feeling that a non-profit has much cheaper alternatives available to them for a facility except possibly for a museum or other public space.

Read that two developers offered over $7 million a few years ago but owner said no. Now area is landmarked so a tear down is not in the cards.

Problem is that it's just so freaking big and not in a prime area - at least not yet. I am willing to bet that the owner would listen to any reasonable offer that maintains the architectural integrity - both interior and exterior - intact.

Looks like the lots on either side are 20 footers. And there might have been buildings on those sites at some point given the plain side facades. So, I assume you could build new on either side but of course you would need Landmarks to approve.

From two years back.

http://observer.com/2016/05/sad-bed-stuy-mansion-cant-get-anyone-to-buy-it-for-6m/

So the landmarking screwed the woman owns it.

Landmarking may have screwed her but it depends. She seems to want to maintain the house as originally envisioned and landmarking will help insure that. She will make a TON of money either way and she does not appear to be greedy since she turned down offers well above the ask a few years ago.

If you think she got screwed then she did it to herself - she could have sold before the landmarking and chose not to. If she only wanted to sell to an owner occupant I'm not sure things changed much - but I also think it's about double what one of those would pay.

She indeed did it to herself. But landmarking does screw the property owners as they can not necessarily utilize their excess far. If landmarking in nyc allowed the use of excess far as a right if you keep historical context, it would be different.

30, I think the floor is 4mm if not 4.5mm. There is indeed excess FAR of 8000 sq ft which one can utilize at the back or build higher up.

Looks like even twenty footers are selling for close to $3mm.

https://streeteasy.com/building/36-claver-place-brooklyn#tab_building_detail=2

https://streeteasy.com/sale/1334607

Houses in the area are going for $800/SF renovated. So What discount do you want to put on this one for condition?

As far as building I think you're already height limited by the height ceiling, you're close to depth limited by the rear setback requirement and due to the extra wide alleys on both sides just about anything you build anywhere will be able to be seen from the street which will lead to problems with Landmarks.

This one finished deserves min 25 percent premium to other 20 foot finished. Call it 1000 per sq ft min. While I have not seen it, it does not seem to need extensive gut Reno work. Elevator is not really needed as it is only parlor plus two levels above. Subtract $300. $700 per sq ft for 7000 sq ft including garden level. $4.9mm. Subtract another $400k for unexpected structural work. $4.5mm. If everything is rotting inside, $4mm.

Facade work alone could easily cost you half a million.

Could be. However, hard to say without looking at it. From the pictures, the property does not look like a money pit.

BK single family facade cost is much lower than the high rise facade work as you do not need the same type of insurance and license as the high rise work and the pool of people who can do it is bigger.

https://ny.curbed.com/2018/9/7/17829214/bed-stuy-sales-record-john-kelley-mansion

If 6.3mm is true, we are all too bearish. Of course, one property does not set the tone of the market. I am happy that this beautiful historical home found a buyer.

Could be. However, hard to say without looking at it.

It's kind of odd that the SE listing shows it as no longer available as opposed to sold and that it is at $6,000,000. So someone came in and paid over ask when it had been on the market for 4 years, and went from contract to closing so fast that the listing couldn't even get updated as "in contract"? Something seems a bit odd here.

I found that strange too. That is why I will believe the $6.3mm price when I see the recorded sale.

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Speechless Ali!!

For the SE experts - I often have seen older and newer listings "unavailable" but not changed to "In contract". Any reason for this if it was sold for real? TIA

$6.275mm recorded sale.

What does it mean about the market?

I don't think it means anything about the market because I think there is more to the story than we know.

I think we do not know the final usage but the sale is real.

https://nypost.com/2022/01/13/these-lucky-artists-live-rent-free-in-a-6m-brooklyn-mansion/

Nice work if you can get it.

This actually makes me really happy.