Blast from the past!!

Lose the faux baroque decor and fussy chandeliers and you're halfway to ok. Though it wouldn't be my first choice, I don't necessarily mind the birdseye maple finish on the cabinetry. Polished marble floor a bit of a shame but could be remedied with some area rugs to warm it up.

I like birdseye maple a lot but not in this color and shape. This apartment can be cleaned up by changing the color scheme on the cabinetry at a very reasonable cost. Marble/limestone floors are actually fine with your suggestion of rugs. However, it does need a unique buyer.

Would look less awful if stripped down to the minimum of furniture and accessories, and will someone make that bed properly???

It is extremely rare that I would recommend virtual staging, but this might be one of those times.

Love the building and general location, but hate the specific block --58th is really the 'alley' for all buildings facing 57th and 59th.

Re:58th St, back when Condos we're 5-10% of the market so they were at a real premium this building was still a hard sale because of location.

A lot has changed in this location since 2007. It is much more residential than before with more casual restaurants. One Hotel on 58th and 6th also improved it by bringing younger people. After all, there is only one Central Park. Billionaire's are paying a lot of money to be on 58th Street which is where the entrance of some of the new buildings is (even 157 West 57th has a more private entrance). The changes are not that far what the Columbus circle area has seen. Now even 58th and Westend is completely transformed with Collegiate School moving there and other amenities due to new developments.

Imaging transformation from crappy commercial building with cheap retail to this.
https://www.1hotels.com/central-park

I don't disagree with that but much of it is transient in one way or another and doesn't really have any neighborhood feel, similar to high west 20's/low 30's.

It has become more of a neighborhood with more coffee shops, casual restaurants even though not in a manner you and I would describe neighborhood feel. There are many new residents in NYC. They do not care as much about old neighborhood feel. Also, it is much better than W20s and 30s. I tried find a coffee shop a few weeks back on 25th and 10th close to galleries and there is none. There are bars but no coffee shops. Had to go to a restaurant. I addition, there is a lot of concentration of private equity and hedge funds around 57th street area which makes it a convenient commute. Public school is still terrible. That is the biggest drawback.

While the prices in this area have gone up, I think West and South West of Time Warner center all the way to the West End will continue to go up due to proximity to both water front as well as central park. It just needed critical mass of amenities and they have improved dramatically.

There are definite improvements in the neighborhood (been walking through it for 20 years), but 58th (particularly btw 5th & 7th) will always be where the deliveries are made to many buildings on 59th & 57th, and the trash gets taken away, and so comes with the attendant noise and traffic. It is also one of the main crosstown driving streets if you're leaving Manhattan via the 59th St bridge -- lots of heavy truck traffic, and the road quality (particularly between 7th and Mad Aves at the moment) is particularly poor, so lots more banging & clanging.

It's one thing to say a certain area is better than it once was, it's another to say it's a good investment. I dare say a paired sales analysis of units at 58W58 would show worse appreciation over the last 10 years than most traditional residential neighborhoods in Manhattan. 58 may ride the coattails of newer high rises in the area but will never be comparable as totally different buyers.

Yes, 58th Street is a service street, soon to be hosting a 140-bed homeless shelter at the old Savoy Hotel at 158W58.

Ximon, Just look at 57 West 58th sales and how many people made a lot of money in the last 5 years.

Most recent sale at 58W58:

Sold Mar 2006 $945,000
Sold May 2018 $1,020,000

https://streeteasy.com/sale/1254297

Sorry, 300 but I said one should look at paired sales at 58W58 and then compare to other neighborhoods. 57W58 is not even a comparable property.

I'm not sure how much a single paired sale establishes. Let's try a different data point.

58W58, Apt. 16A:

Sold Oct 2017: $1.567M
Sold Aug 2006: $300K

Ali, you mean 6A - two beds, two baths, balcony - but are you sure the sale for $300,000 was market? You are right, of course. It's better to look at a number of paired sales to find a trend. But the comparison I am making is with other neighborhoods.

I think you will find that the 2005 sale of 6A was not a market transaction. At that time market transactions in this building were in the $1,000/SF range. In addition is seems clear the recent sale price included a moderately high end renovation.

Also looks like most recent sale of 6A may have included some seller costs. At least that is what I think of whenever I see odd sale prices.

Also looks like most recent sale of 6A may have included some seller costs. At least that is what I think of whenever I see odd sale prices.

https://streeteasy.com/sale/1279269
$540k in 2002 to $1.6mm in 2018.

14C
$863k in 2003
$1.475 in 2005
$2.3mm in 2014

oops, you're right, #6A. I don't see the old listing but now that you point it out, maybe a rent-stabilized tenant?

So tripling in 2002/3 time frame to now.

This is silly. I said " I dare say a paired sales analysis of units at 58W58 would show worse appreciation over the last 10 years than most traditional residential neighborhoods in Manhattan." And all you can find are sales that are 15-17 years ago without comparing them to other neighborhoods. Are you sure these 15-17 year old sales are at market?

Can you find ANY sales in past 5-10 years that have shown any significant appreciation?

It sure looks to me that values at 58W58 are flat to down over last 5 years and pretty flat over last 10 years. Clearly many other neighborhoods have done appreciably better for investment.

And speaking of 57W58, I don't see the paired sales you suggest exist so I wonder who "made a lot of money" there in the last 5 years. But maybe if you went back 20 years you could find a few....

Looks to me that the only time anyone made money in 58W58 was between 2000-2007.

Look harder Ximon on 57 west 58th. May be I am expecting too much logic from you.

I will even drop you a hint. Starts with #P.

300, please don't make me do your work for you. And it's not worth the effort for either of us if you are talking abou one sale. When you said "Just look at 57 West 58th sales and how many people made a lot of money in the last 5 years", I assume you meant a bunch of people made a "lot of money".

As I said, "I dare say a paired sales analysis of units at 58W58 would show worse appreciation over the last 10 years than most traditional residential neighborhoods in Manhattan." This is the entire point I am trying to make but you seem reluctant to respond directly to the question.

I am not trying to be a dick. Maybe we have a fundamental difference in how we look at investing. What happened in the past is meaningless unless it tells us something about the future. Can we agree on that?

"I will even drop you a hint. Starts with #P."

How much did they spend on the renovation?

Zero. Just look at the first sale pictures.

Ximon, My mistake to give much credence to what you say. I do not calculate price per sq ft after ignoring outdoor space completely.

30, I am sure you wouldn’t find any dob filings such a building will always may you do before any substantial work.

30,
May = make
Email Ali to introduce us.

To repeat what you said, "Just look at 57 West 58th sales and how MANY people made a lot of money in the last 5 years", I assume you meant a bunch of people made a "lot of money".

To repeat what I said, "I dare say a paired sales analysis of units at 58W58 would show worse appreciation over the last 10 years than most traditional residential neighborhoods in Manhattan. This is the entire point I am trying to make but you seem reluctant to respond directly to the question."

Please keep this dialogue professional. I mentioned once before that you should refrain from personal insults.

When people claiming former professional appraisers do not include outdoor square footage in their calculations, and do not acknowledge their oversight, there is very little credence to what they say. https://streeteasy.com/talk/discussion/44221-excuse-me

Please provide my quote where I say appraisers do not include outdoor square footage in their "calculations". As you see above, I always provide quotes when questioning someone's opinion.

Did your $2500 per sq ft price comment factor in outdoor square footage?

“They call it Gramercy Park? I called it Bedpan Alley when I lived at 25th between First and Second or Peter Cooper to be kind. Nice apt. but $2,500 psf?“

I think you may be having trouble finding a quote where I reference "appraisers "or "calculations"? I believe I stated just the opposite - that appraisers are forced to use such formulas but most buyers do not. $2,500 psf being too high was a sentiment expressed by many I believe. Do their opinions all have "little credence"? The quote above is a question not an opinion but the more I learned about the project, the more I believe the listing price is indeed overstated. What do you think?

The purpose of this forum is to discuss what we think of the resi market in NYC. All opinions deserve respect.

Just me but I call it Gramercy Park East.