How would you feel?

Marshalls on the LES might make sense as it traditionally has been a discount retail area.. Spending $3,000 psf with $3 psf in monthly carrying costs is a recipe for disaster in the current market. Reminds me of what a sad joke Soho has become. A far cry from the neighborhood that attracted people to it in the first place. This is gentrification at its worse. I miss the LES of the 1980's and 1990's when it was vibrant and yes maybe a little dangerous.

It's hard to imagine this wasn't much more than 20 years ago:
https://www.nytimes.com/1997/09/26/movies/the-new-bohemia-it-s-east-of-soho-and-still-unspoiled.html

https://therealdeal.com/2015/01/24/a-tour-of-ludlow-street-in-the-early-1990s-video/

The folly is expecting this area to become exclusive so quickly. Hot and trendy yes but the economy can't support high end retail everywhere.

Hey, a lot of folks with money shop at these places (TJ Max, Marshalls etc). I understand your point though $3, 000 sqft / Marshalls (; I'm sure some of the owners will appreciate it, they'll need to save some money based on those monthlies!

I'm showing my age, but I have such wonderful memories of going to Orchard street in the seventies with my family, it was a Lively packed scene filled with all kinds of discounters. I had a silk screen business in high school making Punk shirts. I wood trek to Eisner Brothers to buy shirts, the grandfather would be like 'look it's the little goyem from New Jersey, better be careful down here.'

You're correct ximon, even soho back then in the early 80s was a bit scary. Walking back to my apartment on Norfolk Street in 81 from the Mudd Club, you would not see a soul, and the ones you did see you avoided!

I had a 1500 square-foot Loft for 300 a month and shared it with for guys.

Enjoy your weekend everyone!

Keith Burkhardt
www.theburkhardtgroup.com

Apologies for all those typos!! Would, four....

I think it is not Marshall’s which is our of place, it is paying $3k per sq ft. Perhaps it should be closer to $2k per sq ft or even $1700-1800, if you are not on a high floor, for this location and I think some of the prices are indeed lower.

Given the current state of retail, I think the developer was very glad to have signed Marshalls. Whether they will still be there in 10 years is a big guess.

I think that barrier already fell -- what, ten years ago? -- once Best Buy was one of the big tenants at 15 CPW.

like a complete unknown; like a rolling stone

Tjx (parent of Marshalls) knocked it out of the park last quarter.

Ali,
While I understand your point, I don't think 15 CPW is exactly analogous. The retail space there isn't visible from the entrance side of the building so its impact isn't the same. The building's entrance side has zero retail and is prime CPW. The potential negatives of high volume businesses have zero impact on the residential entrance.

I think the reason why I perceive the choice of retail tenant matters in this project is because it already suffers from being on Houston St, so the choice of a "14th St style" tenant plays into the deficiency.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curb_appeal

I think the only problem with Marshalls on Houston is that the apt. building it's in is priced as luxury. Otherwise, I think it's a good fit and probably welcomed by most locals. They built a Marshalls on Columbus and 100th Street near my old building - along with a Whole Foods and a few other big boxes - and it was a godsend for the area. Never knew how many well off people lived in my neighborhood until they opened. Owner probably got decent decent rents.

Retail and residential are often a strange mix like TJ Maxx on W57th Street and Century 21 at Lincoln Center. But it's true I think that Best Buy only worked because it fronted on Broadway.

What I worry about is land values if retail, etc. can't be insured to make the numbers work for mixed-use development. One of the take-aways I learned from 2006 is that if some projects made no sense unless it included retail, hotel, and office, the market is overheated. If the last boom is any example, little will get built in Manhattan for quite a while until land prices correct. Some will say that's good for the market as it will shrink supply but that is a short term view as lower land prices will mean cheaper housing prices.

Keith, my mom used to take my to Orchard Street when I was a kid in the late 60's. For an Irish Catholic from Staten Island it was a fascinating place to see! In the late 1980's I lived in a Mitchell Lama at Avenue D and Delancey and took the J/Z to Queens every day for work. Made sure to pick up a coffee and cheese danish at Ratners. Had to walk the gauntlet of drug dealers and junkies at night to get home. The local Chinese restaurant had bulletproof glass and would only serve you through a small opening. I think some things have improved there but some things have not. I would not buy a luxury condo there for any price. So completely out of place to me.

"I think the only problem with Marshalls on Houston is that the apt. building it's in is priced as luxury. "
I'm sorry if I didn't make clear that was my point. If this was a mid-grade building full of studios and 1 BRs I wouldn't have posed the question which was "If you had plunked down a few million for a unit here" how would you feel? For example if you had just gone into contract for 10E at $5.5 million based on renderings which make it look like the entire first two floors are going to be an equinox, and now find this out instead.

A lot of the projects in the way East Village and LES are still quite dangerous and my guess is that their proximity is being underestimated. I think there is a decent chance that a reason sales at 1 Manhattan Square are doing poorly is that you almost HAVE to walk through projects to get there so people can't fool themselves.
I have probably told this story before but...
When an acquaintance was developing 222 Riverside Drive he had more than one occasion of suburbanites driving in, parking their Mercedes/BMW/whatever on 94th/95th St between West End Ave and RSD - not realizing that the reason there were spots available was that those two blocks where notorious for having some nasty SROs on them - signing contracts, going downstairs and finding their cars had been broken into, and then going right back upstairs and rescinding the contracts. Or the famous Clinton St "what are you going to do? Shoot us?" Case.

A Marshalls would be quieter than an Equinox.

But 30, there was a time in NYC when car break-ins were so rampant that I just started leaving my door open! This was mid-to-late 80s if I recall correctly. remember the guy that came up with the little placard that you put in your window that said 'nothing of value inside.'

Ximon-but those were good times indeed! I have a fond attachment to that neighborhood, I'd be happy to buy a multimillion-dollar condo there! But I remember my uncle pointing out they scraped and saved to get out of the Lower East Side! He thought I was nuts when I move there in 1982! He certainly felt the same way you do, would not be purchasing a condo for any price there :)

Keith

Yes Keith. Remember when car cassette players and radio heads were removable? I had four car break-in’s which are pretty easy ways for a junkie to get enough merchandise for at least one fix. But my broken glass coverage was very good so I didn’t worry so much when it happened. I used to keep my empty hatch open to view so thieves would not waste their time breaking in.

Keith,
Remember during the Sanitation Workers strike when someone joked you should giftwrap your garbage and leave it in your car with the doors unlocked?