How soon until McCains Tax increase?

"These payroll taxes and increased social security taxes"

You do know that these are the same (as there is no such thing as social security taxes) and not two different taxes as you make it sound

But anyway....

if McCain says that all options are on the table how do we know that he is only limiting tax increases to payroll taxes? and is he increasing all payroll taxes? Obama has stated that he will only add a pyroll tax to individuals making over $250K?

How do we know that McCain wont implement other non payroll taxes to support Social Security?

petrfitz, the sound of tax increases should have you jumping for joy.

Well, if McCain's plan would be a "disaster," I'm not sure that a word exists that could appropriately capture the catastrophe that Obama's tax hike plan would precipitate. Since you are a successful businessman, I presume you read the Journal. So you must have seen the inside last page of section A from yesterday's edition. There on the page, in perfectly clear tabular form, is Obama's tax plan. For the "rich" (i.e. the double earner middle class), take-home pay declines by a third under Obamanomics. Yes, you read that right: take-home pay declines by one third. Why? Oh, right. So we can reduce the tax "burden" of below median earners. And how much of the aggregate personal income tax is paid by those below the median wage in our country? Any guesses? 25%? 15%? 10%? Try 2%. So I'm supposed to bend over backwards and give up 1/3 of my take home pay so that the people shouldering 2% of our country's tax bill can pay an even smaller amount? Not likely, pal.

Whatever tax increases John McCain will impose will be small compared with B. Obama. McCain also intends to end pork spending which is in the billions while Obama won't. I

you guys are all fools thinking that anyone can be President and not have to raise taxes. The govts books are a disaster. If you believe that McCain wont raise your taxes you are a fool.

at least Obama is honest about it and tells you what he will do. McCain lies to your face - then flips flops - no new taxes under any circumstance - then "nothing is off the table"

He will run promising tax cuts and spending cuts - like Bush - then do neither.

The difference being that McCain is reluctant to raise taxes, while Obama is eager.

Maybe Senator Obama should try this zinger in the debates:

"Let's tell the truth. Mr. McCain will raise taxes, and so will I. He won't tell you. I just did."

It's a great line. Look how well it worked for Mondale.

east_cider: Focusing on the personal income tax is a neat trick. Add in payroll taxes, sales taxes, energy taxes, "sin" taxes, communications surcharges, use fees, business taxes that are passed on to consumers and other revenue-raisers that are borne more broadly than personal income tax, and you get a fuller picture of the burden. Then present the revenue as a percentage of the earner's income, rather than a percentage of total government receipts, and you have the "liberal" spin on the same data.

It's always funny to see dittoheads from either end of the political spectrum parroting the arguments of their respective "teams". Are you really that gullible?

Actually, replace "earner's income" with "earner's wealth" in the denominator of that calculation and you have the REAL liberal spin.

east cider - McCains "reluctance" is a lie. He will have to raise taxes period. The reason that he will have to raise taxes is due to the irresponsible economic and tax policy instituted by the Bush andministration and Republican party. So when you whine about high taxes in the future you can blame yourself and your party for the irresponsible tax cuts during war time that produced a historic deficit and a debt burden that the next several generations will have to pay off.

Ah yes, the old "regressive tax" argument. But here's the issue: taxes you mention are regressive simply because there's no other way to levy them. You can't charge higher sales tax to a rich guy, nor can you charge him more for cigarettes. So it's not like there's some big underlying scheme to bilk the poor and middle class - it's just that logistically, these taxes *must* be regressive in practice. But I suppose that the never ending tale of regressive tax woes (cue the violins) sells more papers.

Sorry - not buying it.

And if by "a fuller picture of the burden" you mean to imply that these items even things out somehow, I respectfully disagree.

Not now, Pete. The grown ups are talking.

east cider - why did Bush's tax cuts not work? He cut taxes more than any other President in decades yet we have the worst economic conditions since the great depression?

Let me guess - its the fault of either Clinton or the illegals?

you never get tired of projecting daily kos level stereotypes on people who don't think like you do you eh?

you never get tired of projecting daily kos level stereotypes on people who don't think like you do you eh?

Sizzlack then why did Bush's tax cuts create this "worst economy since the Depression?"

Shouldnt we ne seeing increased tax revenues and the rich trckling all over us? Why is not happening?

Can you not answer the question without attacking me?

attacking you? Are you for real? When someone disagrees with you you automatically assume a. they are a republican b. that they believe illegal immigration is to blame or c. that they think everything is Bill Clinton's fault.
When did I defend anything that Bush said or did? Please show me.
My only problem with you is that as soon as someone disagrees with you, you begin to trash them because they dont think like you. People are allowed to have differing opinions on things. If you had all the answers to the worlds problems you would not be here posting on Streeteasy.

We are indeed experiencing a weak economy, and the primary culprit is the credit hangover. If you've been in business long enough, I'm sure you've seen the downslope of a credit cycle before. If not, I hope you learn from this one. Rapid credit expansion in good times is mostly a function of good old fashioned animal spirits - not the President, not Congress, not the Fed and not the IRS. So while it's tempting to blame Bush, this sort of thing could have happened under just about any administration. Since you dragged Clinton into this, I should point out that a massive capital expenditure bubble occured during his administration. Was it his fault? Of course not. Again, it was just animal spirits (aka the business cycle).

east_cider: As I said, the argument about all those "regressive" taxes is the liberal spin on the same data. I'm not taking sides, just pointing out that the data can be spun either way. As for certain taxes being inherently regressive, a country can choose a progressive system by reducing those taxes and increasing progressive ones, among other methods. I'm not saying we should do that, but it's not very difficult.

"These payroll taxes and increased social security taxes McCain is considering would be a disaster to the NY middle class."

"Obama has stated that he will only add a pyroll tax to individuals making over $250K?"

Let me get this straight. McCain's raising SS withholding (which he won't in fact do) would be somehow different than Obama's first proposing eliminating the SS withholding cap and then instituting a "doughnut"? Please allow me to laugh. Secondly, Obama's 250 applies alike to married filing jointly, thus would absolutely unequivocally hurt New York's middle class.

Thirdly, if you read the WSJ op ed piece today, you'd have seen that McCain misspoke when referred to everything being on the table and of course the AP runs with that, much like MSNBC ran with McClellan claiming the Whitehouse gave talking points to FNC without first confirming it.

I am beginning to believe you are an absolute fraud. I've been wondering why someone with a supposed business posts so goddamn much on this site. Its pitiful really.

I am a fraud and you are theone saying that you actually believe McCain can cut taxes while being faced with 2 maybe 3 wars, and disaster of an economy, and a massive deficit with crushing debt.

Yeah I am the fraud.

Seems to me the economy went into the crapper about the same time the Democrats took over congress...

But your right, let's just blame Bush...the 9% Congress (yes - that's their approval rating) has nothing to do with it...

Did you figure out the difference between "payroll taxes and social security taxes" yet as you stated? Would love to hear the answer...

But I digress...

McCain isn't raising taxes