Oro Condo delays...

There's a lot of inexperience speaking on this thread. Plan on closing at the numbers for which you are in contract. You need to negotiate transfer tax (and other) cost concessions before you sign the contract, not after. Re price fluctuations - these are the breaks - if prices were up from your contract price, the sponsor wouldn't charge you more; so why would a buyer realistically expect to float down if prices come down? just focus on doing what you need to close and finance, and then ride these next few years out - in your beautiful new home. 5 years from now the current tumult won't be much more than cocktail chatter.

"In conclusion I would hate to be the first one to close. I would love to close once I can confirm that I did not overpay for my unit."

this statement doesn't make much sense. in order to judge whether or not one paid a fair price, one must examine market valuations at the time the contract was signed, not at the time of closing.

I agree with BrooklynLove. Investing on real estate is like buying into NY Stock markets shares. You buy when you think the price is low and can make a profit but sometimes you may be wrong and you have to be responsible to your action. Just count it as bad luck if you paid too much and the present price is lower then what you paid due to market climate change. Oro developer wouldn't want to loose money too if they can help it. If Oro does give a discount to keep you. Take it an run. They do not have to do that unless they are desperate or just being very nice.Just be realistic and look forward to enjoy living in this beautiful building.

Mandy, when if we already moved in ORo, sure we need to take current market. but, we couldn't close the contract and the closing dates(most recent one, i heard, is end of sept. they are saying 'next month' always) has been delayed for 7months. for now. no one knows how long we need to wait.

some say, this kind of 'delay' is 'usual'. IMO, as an architect, someone need to take the responsibility for 'delay'. I don't think I have it. I've been over-paid rent.....

I think most people are happy with their decision. If you thought you were going to buy in this area and be able to flip it overnight for a profit, you were smoking something. Here’s the thing that gets me. It’s not the delays, it’s the horrible job of managing expectations. I am in the client service business and rule #1 is always manage your clients expectations. Oro was very aggressive with their closing dates early on. The building was ahead of schedule, etc, etc. Then the market started to go down and soon they were referring people to have their lawyers contact the developer’s lawyer. Can BS speech from their attorneys that they were planning on making the offering plan effective towards the end of the spring, blah, blah. And then suddenly in May or so, the delays were because of the new regulations imposed by the DOB. I’m not saying that isn’t the case but why not say that in the 1st place. Why not be transparent in the process? Let us know when there are inspections and what came out of the inspections. Also the worse thing you can do in managing expectations is move your “expected” close date a month at a time. One second it’s March, then March comes and now probably by the end of April and so on. I would rather hear that there is little chance it will happen for another 6 months or a year or 2 freaking years so that I can at least move on and not feel like I am in limbo land which has now lasted 7 months.

So here’s what I want to know – are they hedging their bets trying to determine if it makes more financial sense (be more profitable) to turn the entire building into rentals. They wouldn’t be the 1st condo to do so. I don’t want this to happen because I am pleased with my unit and I think in 5 years the area will be completely different. But if it does, I would rather it happen sooner than later. How pissed would you be if after another 6 months they decide to go to rentals?

Does anyone know the outcome of the latest inspections?

Evidently, there are still 58 items required to pass inspection. There is no future inspection date yet, but I would think it would be AT LEAST a month.

Fisher81 where did you get this infor?

If Oro is listening. I suggest Oro put up a web site for people of interest to keep us inform what's going on such as items found to hamper the inspection approval, date of next inspection etc. This would be very useful to calm buyers nerves down. Just be truth and frank. Oro can build a 40 storey condo but cannot be upfront to us? Also let us know if they are going rental or not.

Zinka posted this link three weeks ago.

http://a810-bisweb.nyc.gov/bisweb/COApplicationSummaryServlet?requestid=2&passjobnumber=301968440&passdocnumber=01&allisn=0000989164&allbin=3000247

It's updated...as best DOB knows how.

http://a810-bisweb.nyc.gov/bisweb/InspectionHistoryServlet?requestid=3&passjobnumber=301968440&allbin=3000247

I might be going crazy but does that page say the DOB signed off on a Temporary CO on 4/30/08?

They haven't passed a sprinkler or fire alram test yet, so I wouldn't get too excited. Here's the complete list.

http://a810-bisweb.nyc.gov/bisweb/BScanItemsRequiredServlet?rqidpriortoa=on&rqiditemstatus=all&rqidpriortop=on&rqidpriortos=on&passjobnumber=301968440&allisn=&allbin=3000247&requestid=4

you have to know what you're talking about when you say stuff.
there are 6 outstanding objections that prevent the issue of co.

http://a810-bisweb.nyc.gov/bisweb/OutstandingObjectionsServlet?requestid=3&passjobnumber=301968440&allbin=3000247&allinquirytype=BXS2C630

and they're filing plan amendments as those objections require.

http://a810-bisweb.nyc.gov/bisweb/OutstandingObjectionsServlet?requestid=3&passjobnumber=301968440&allbin=3000247&allinquirytype=BXS2C630

sop confusing the cattle. dumbass.

http://a810-bisweb.nyc.gov/bisweb/JobsQueryByNumberServlet?requestid=3&passjobnumber=301968440&passdocnumber=06

I bought at Oro and am very frustrated because of the delay and its impact on me financially and emotionally. I would like to take an action - anyone want to join me? I have taken actions already but there is strength in numbers especially when you are dealing with big money developers. Let me know.

so much mean stuff guys, i too bought at the Oro and I see no reason why other oro buyers are bashing their own building, the sales staff, going so far as to call the women there a twat for being nice to you, taking you on a tour, we too bought from this women and believe this is a terrible way to describe her. What a horrible immature way to speak about a person who at this point we see as just the messenger. My husband and I are thrilled with our purchase there and want the building and neighborhood to be successful. So i say to all other Oro buyers, why are you trying to ruin the success of your own building? We bought a long time ago too and was told they would hopefully start closing Q1 08, are we that far off? Is there any other building there days that is closing on time. do i want to close now oh heck yes!!!
I'm just saying investments take strength and time and balls basically and it sounds like most of you have lost yours. Getting your money back for delays is just a silly first time buyer argument. If that were the case half of NYC would be trying to do just that.

Hang tight relax, seems to us things are on their way and they are doing their best to make it happen. Oh and rental, just dumb. The developer would never make any money that way at this point. I think you can consider them committed to the sales kids.

Nobody wants to ruin their future home. We are very frustrated. I followed their words - secure the mortgage, sold my old home ...etc. Now I am paying HUGE amount of mortgage extension every 15 days and living out of a suitcase and am on an anti-depresssant. How's your situation? Why do I have to suffer financially and emotionally while Oro developers don't give a damn? And who's bashing sales people at the office? There are some people who are just plain RUDE but it's not even a news. They are aware of that themselves. maybe you just bought a unit and don't have any problems. then just shut it

#1 risk in buying new developments is lack of certainity around closing dates. Why do people continually forget about this risk, and then when there are delays get all frustrated over it??? I don't care if you are buying at Oro, Toren, etc - you should all know that estimated closing dates are meaningless. if you can't deal with this possbility, then you shouldn't have purchased a new dev.

Yes. I called her a twat. As much as I understand that she has to make a living and push her commodity, she shouldn't treat her customers like marks. Sure, she took us on tours...of a partially finished building...and told us how "soon" it would be completed. But the fact remains that back in December when I was rushed into making drastic life changes by HER, I was doing so under the concrete impression that my wife and I would be happily living in our unit by "no later than February." I thought she was trying to help us out. She smiled the entire time, but not until now do I realize how transparent that facade was. Yes, personally, I am a very different situation than all of you, but why is that there is a common theme running through this discussion? I'm obviously not the only one that's upset and I never would have heard from these people if I hadn't found this on streeteasy. I've lost my interim apartment, my wife lost her job, we've inadvertantly displaced others. All we want to do is settle down once and for all. To be left in the lurch for over a year is nothing short of demoralizing. My apologies if I've angered some of you.

fisher81- I'm sorry to hear about your ordeal. All I can say, is try and hang in there. Your apology is accepted and your frustration is understood. I actually think that you are right. I understand the "it's your responsibility" line, by others. However I truly understand your points. I actually laugh when people say "well every new construction project has delays". That's great, then the developer and sales staff should not provide unrealistic completion dates. It's clearly done as a sales pitch with zero regard for you. It's all about the sale. Good luck and hope things workout for you and your wife.

I still think taking some collective action is the way to go. Not to ruin our future home, but to let the developer know that they are responsible to us. Delays in construction is what it is, but giving us a reasonable time-line so that we can plan around it is necessary as well. Many of us have changed our living situations in anticipation of the move, begun acquiring mortgages, and made other financial choices based on the information they are giving us. We just want honest information, not feeding us information thru the sales office that strings us along. Have anyone had their lawyers make any suggestions as to what options we have?

ga_yi, if the developer is not doing the correct thing and giving you all those stress from false promises. Why don't you plan a move in date say by end of summer 2009 instead? That will give you plenty of time for the prep. I think that date is highly unlikely but should the closing be earlier it will be a bonus. That will help you to stress out less. Going through lawyers are expensive and more stressful. Just be more patient is my advice.

Asking someone to be patient is easier said than done. People obviously are frustrated because some of them have made major decisions such as sell houses, move out of their apartments, etc. And buying a new home is a huge investment. For most people it's pretty much banking your whole life savings.

The reason why someone would get stressed out because of false promises is because they may have nothing to fall back on. It's so much easier to sit on the sidelines and become a spectator but unless you're in their shoes, I think it's wrong for people to trivialize the situation.

right. I agree with you,cleanslate. they,sales, need to stop saying 'next month'.

we have to close within 30days after 'closing notice', right? if our patient is a must, then we can also ask 'extension' for close. as much as our patient, like 8 months?

Thank you jsmith9005. This is new construction and dates are never guaranteed. We knew that and bashing the staff is just not nice, i don't think they mean anyone any harm whatsoever. Stavo I did buy a long time ago April of 07 to be exact, so no need to be so nasty. We have had to make all kinds of changes and sacrifices and now living in interim home in NJ and commuting, so i get it. Fisher you are just plain gross and offensive, who uses language like that. IS this who I have to live with now? You people make me more nervous then the building being delayed.

Thanks alot.

toomeanguys, you should find an article about 'rental' from the contract book. I found one just few days ago. if you are not 'a silly first time buyer', you already knew it.

fisher81, I happened to have the so call "twat" serving me as well but unlike your bad experience I have all praises for her. She's nothing but an angel to deal with. Always with a sweet smile and she is very professional about the closing date and never at anyone time promised any closing date to lead me on. All she told me was that if everything went well the closing date could be this, this or this...

I understand what's like to have the city thorough inspections before any CO are issued. These things cannot be rushed. The consolation is that the inspection will be thorough with safety in mind first. You don't want to move in if the sprinkler system or the elevator is not working properly would you?

Check your contract and I think Oro can only string you along so much and they have to give you a full refund if by a certain date they cannot closed. My advise is that if you cannot wait don't buy new deevliopment. Ask Toren if they can guarantee a move in date and the answer will be the same. Just be realistic about your expectation. I won't be surprised if Toren will have the same issue next year too. Mark my words.

jsmith9005, toomeanguys

You have a valid point. But with Oro, they have been giving out disinformation. In March they had TCO and said it was DEFINITE that the closing would be in May and that's why I secured the mortgage and now I am paying for the extension. People including myself just acted in good faith. That's the problem. So for people who have acted in good faith and followed the information they were given, it is ALL their fault? 3-4 months delays I would say yes it is common thing in new development. But not like this. And Oro has not given its buyers a single word. Not a single word why the delays have been happening (except for all those CITY excuses) and it's been almost 7 months now. If you remember until a few weeks ago they said it was DEFINITE (again) that the closing will happen either at the end of Aug or early Sep. Now it will be end of Sep or early Oct. Honestly do you trust them at this point? They portray themselves as 'bastards' who don't care because they got your money. BUYERS ARE NOT HOSTAGES! If you say it's too much to ask for from new developments because that's not the way it's been done, you know what I think you are forfeiting your own right. I believe we can do something as a group. At least we can report to BBB. My mortgage extension payment will reach in 5 digits in no time. Why? And you would still say it's my fault and it's a common thing so I should just suck it? While Oro is dropping its prices they are not doing anything who are going through ordeals because of their delays. Still sounds like a common thing and fair?

fisher81 & ga_yi and anyone who's frustrated enough,
If you want to report to the BBB and AG's office as a group I am in and I have AG's office forms and address. Let me know.

stavo, I am a little puzzled by what you say. we have been asking to the sales person about closing time since two months ago and she always said that she does not know and she does not want to say anything specific. she seems to be pretty honest about it. that could be just our experience.

I have been talking to the office since I bought it in May 07. At that time the closing date give was Jan/Feb 08 as all of you know already. I sold my property and started subletting because according to the office the closing seemed to happen in a few months. I couldn't sign a lease because I can't afford to lose a security deposit. In March the office said the closing would be in May FOR SURE so I secured the mortgage. But the closing time got delayed over and over again and I still am living out of a suitcase from one sublet to another. How do I know that they had TCO in March? I saw it on the builindg dept website, the office didn't say it. The last time I talked to the office was 2 weeks ago - end of Aug of early Sep closing time DEFINITELY. Yesterday a friend of mine who also bought at Oro said now they are saying Sep/Oct closing time. And he also told me about this website. But it looks like my experience is not unique here. I am not agry at the office people - except for those who are rude. They are just messengers. It's the developers whom I am angry at. At least they should be honest about what's causing the delays.

I went to see the unit I am in contract on earlier in the week, and got a look @ the common areas - gym, pool, etc. The place looks amazing (no, I'm not on the Oro sales staff) and the unit is, essentially, complete. Beautiful work - great quality fit and finishes, all that I had hoped for, with nothing to complain about. It's a beautiful apartment.

The sales person was hoping that the closings would start late Sept., and understood my skepticism. The back up, according to them, is a function, among other things, of the DOB being in a state of chaos after the shake up with building inspectors after the crane accidents...lots of firings, back log of inspections waiting to happen, etc. etc. I'm inclined to believe it. That being said, the lack of communication on the part of the developer is outrageous, and self defeating. What they've done is fuel all the rumor and speculation on the boards, damaging the buildings reputation and certainly costing them sales, not to mention subjecting the sales team to all kinds of abuse. Why the hell the knuckleheads @ United Homes weren't updating contract holders is beyond me. Also, any one who wants to chastise us for posting our complaints, concerns, fears, etc., especially if they're not contract holders themselves, should zip it. Try sitting around wondering if your new home was ever going to happen as long as some of these folks have.

One last thing - and then I'll "shut up". Re: price drops : yeah, it sucks, but it's part of life. The apartment I bought in '91 dropped a whole lot by '93, and sold this year for 8 times the purchase price. So if you thought Oro (or any other development in the area) was a gonna make you a fast buck, you're screwed. But if you want to live in the area, watch it grow, and it will given time, you can come back on line and laugh @ EW, and all the other doom and gloom merchants, who flamed you for buying in downtown Brooklyn.

I am a huge fan of this building and downtown brooklyn in general, and you are all going to be a-ok down the road, but I have to say that the whining in this thread is doing nothing positive for your situation. The building is progressing at an entirely reasonable pace and if the market had been going up since 2007 people wouldn't be complaining. Instead of working yourselves into a hizzie over something which: (1) you cannot control - the DOB and market fluctuations, and (2) something which you should've anticipated - delays, and theorizing about silly buyer revolts and lawsuits, you'd be better off working with the sponsor to get some realistic ideas about closing timing given the present set of circumstances. Venting is fine, but many comments in this thread are way over the top and, to put it bluntly, retarded. If people can't help themselves then you'd be wise to set up a private yahoo group for contract holders.

Ok - maybe we can pull this discussion back to a constructive dialog among contract holders and let all the Blog surfers go elsewhere. I received a letter last night from the Oro's attorneys... it said that the offering plan was declared effective. It also stated that as of now there were 117 units in contract which equates to 38% of the units. Not sure what this all means in terms of closing, but thats what i know. I am not happy with the percent in contract as most of our mortgages will require at least 50% in contract. They still do not have a certificate of occupancy until the NY State Dept of Law accepts the filing.

I am seeing my attorney at 3pm today just to chat about all of this and get his thoughts on how things are going.... will let you all know what he says.

Get a grip not even the best lawyer can do anything. Threats of lawyers against developer will create more negativity. Oro is working hard to get the CO as soon as possible as I find them working even till the wee hrs of the night(I can see lights from my apartment every evening). What more do they want? Get a gun and point at the CO inspectors. Get real. Had the market been strong and prices went up these complainants would have been quiet. Some of them are trying to wriggle out of their contract since they are aware that they are loosing monies because they book early. These people has no principals. By Feb if CO is still not available they can have their stinking 10% back as I was told.

In other countries. Buyers who get loans from the banks, have to pay interest according to the completion or status of the condo construction. In Oro case the bank would have at least release 90% to the developer. Buyers pay the interest to the bank accordingly. People in this country only pay 5 or 10% until closing. They should count themselves lucky not having to pay interest while waiting. I have known people paying interest for years when the developer foiled. Meanwhile the building is completed and guess who is paying the interest? Yes Oro developer. The longer they delay the longer they will get paid for the rest of the monies owed to them. Commonsense will tell you that Oro should be more eager to hand over the condo so they can get the bank to release the rest of the 90 or 95% due. There are situation that no body can be in control. They can only try their best.

Mandy - get a clue. Your so far the least savy of any of the buyers posting on here. In the current mmarket environment you need to be a bit smarter - so maybe you should be a bit worried or at least have some concern.

And having tears for a large NY realestate developer is not exactly high on my list of priorities. So you continue to be ignorant of the situation and fain contentment, but in the mean time let the rest of us have our dialog. No more cheerleading for the developers, we have heard your position.

Justwaiting, your remark about me is demeaning. I may not be savy but I am not stupid. And you lots are just wasting your time over something no one can control... eg. During inspections anything can happened and I am sure the developer do not want to see that. Get a life, get real and don't buy into future new development if you continue to show ignorance. Are you a first time buyer(new development- you sounded like one)?

no i am not a first time buyer and i honestly do not care to argue with you. It is concerning that a property i am in contract to buy has depriciated by so much at the developers hand (not to mention what the market will do to it) as they are not able to sell the units. Try getting this appraised now (which the bank will do) and the fact that less than 50% are in contract and the bank that is financing you will not be very receptive. They also have yet to fill the commercial space in the base...another financing issue. That is a problem. And i am glad you found my comment demeaning.... maybe you are smarter than I thought because that is exactly what i intended it to communicate. You are obviously only tied into on of the less expensive studio models, which isnt a problem - but there are others that have quite a bit to lose in all of this. Thanks - but i think the dialog between us is done. Lets move on to using this for what it was intended and sharing information as we all get it.

Geez, Mandy, did you actually buy in this development or are you a girlfriend of one of the real estate agents? Hmm, you can see from your apartment. Is that the Toy Factory or something where one of the agents live?

Justwaiting, I am not sure I understand your goals/complaints.

1. you are upset because there are delays in closing time. understood. does it translate in loss in value of your apt? I do not think so. if your apt is losing value (and not as many units are sold as expected) is because of current market conditions. too bad you bought at the wrong time but I do not see why blaming it on other people rather than yourself. I am also a buyer and on the same boat but I like the apt and whatever, I am sure that such a nice building will gain value over time.

2. I do not give a damn about the developer and definitely do not feel sorry for them. I care about by apt. So I am not sure how you can consider 'smart' trashing your investment choice on this board where lots of people are trying to decide what to buy. A minimum of self interest should tell you that this is not the right place for this. you know, at first I thought that most of these posting were from people working from competing builidings, trying to scare away buyers, but it looks like you guys are for real!

bottom line, if you feel you are so smart and want to do something perhaps you can use other ways.

1 - the loss in value comes from the Developer reducing prices of similar apt lines on higher floors - thus putting me in negative equity. There is an apt 4 floors above mine that is the same line and is significantly cheaper - not cool. I am in contract (have not purchased) - can always walk away.

2 - not trashing my investment if you would take time to read my post... thought i was quite clear (aside from the useless banter that Mandy initiated). I actually really like the building and the apt - its just that this project is falling apart. I gave an update to everyone who is still waiting with what i know and intend to keep informing people as I find out more... i would hope others would do the same.

Dear Oro owners:

I'm sure you are all good and intelligent individuals. I'm a purchaser of the Toren and even I worry about the collateral damage you guys are causing by this very negative discussion.

Any lawyer would tell you to keep it in house since you are undoubtedly creating a hesitancy in a potential purchaser by comments on this discussion group. Justwaiting, I have no doubt you mean to be constructive but surely you can understand your comments may create trepidation on the part of a potential purchaser. Basically, you are making matters worse for yourself and others who have purchased.

I believe a fellow Toren buyer named ap307, provided a yahoo discussion group so you can keep discussions in house. If someone can provide this internet address it would be helpful.

Good luck and God Bless.

I found it.

ap307

The name of the discussion group is "Oro1", and the e-mail address is oro1@googlegroups.com

Wise suggestion, Junkman. Some idiotic buyers here just think thrashing the developer will help but obviously is not. On the contrary producing negative result like these means no new buyers will want to take up the other 50%. Banks will not give a mortgage and every one got screwed because of these idiots.

Or they can vent their frustrations and help potential buyers make a better informed decision...

Such negative feed backs will only deter new buyers to commit. Not having over 50% sales means no mortgage as simple as that. It's quite clear these sore loosers wants to get out and get their pittance 5% or 10% back. Very selfish action on their part.

Exactly, Dlau. It helps other pothential buyers too to know the real score. I do not think all potential buyers are just put off. It cannot be that around 30+% bought because more than 50% potential buyers got put off. Gimme a break! What are the chances that 60% of the potential buyers are here? How many potential buyers are we actually talking about?

The developers themselves are the ones putting themselves in a predicament. They're the ones who cannot sell, etc. Don't blame the buyers. Blame the economy, blame the developers, but seriously, trying to withhold information is just silly because you'd like to trap other people to buy and be in the same predicament. Yeah, the alternative is to have the same agenda as the Toren buyers where they talk about all the positive in their thread and keep withholding facts. I am more put off by that, cuz I know that's NOT the real score. Then they go underground and have their own discussion groups where they talk more realistically or whatever.

cleanslate you crack me up. I remember having a mature discussion with you once about what our actual real estate conclusions were and for that short period of time you came across as a reasonable guy. Even when you make idiotic statements like above, I'm still convinced you have a very good knowledge base on what is happening in Brooklyn as a whole. Why an intelligent guy like yourself resorts to such fantasy at times about what Toren buyers are doing as if we have some sort of conspiracy is so silly and immature. You are welcome to come to the Toren group at any time and read the posts. Nothing to hide. Most are about the development of the area and friendly conversation. Granted, we have all drunk the kool-aid which makes for a better and more informative discussion. as opposed to charges of "conspiracies of positivity".

By the way, since you know the "real score", please educate us all on the Toren discussion board.. I'm sure all of us at the Toren would love to hear your kernels of wisdom about how you visited the Toren and hated it. Please provide the "REAL Score". I was starting to miss Eddie Wilson, and you apparently will serve as an able substitute.

Can't wait.

Drinking Toren's kool-aid doesn't lead to more informative discussions. Just more biased...

Very true, Diau, I realized after writing informative I really meant harmonious.

Sentence should have read, "drinking the same kool-aid makes for a better and more harmonious discussion."

Thanks for the correction.

Hey Junkman, I've already decided not to join the Toren group because even when the stock market plunges 500 points, that is the only thread where you will find positive news. LOL! It's like being in Utopia...except you realize it's seriously boring and you don't really wanna be there. And the reason why things appear to be perfect is because people just keep spinning positive things that it sounds so unreal sometimes. Take this thread for example with your open letter to Oro condo owners. You want people to refrain from posting the reality...because the reality happens to be negative, unfortunately. And you wonder why I am suspicious about the Toren discussion. It's fine you say all positive things but to request other folks to withhold facts? How do I know what's the real deal or not? How can I not doubt or question your intentions?

The real score is that you want to withhold facts and spin positive info only. That's all I know. That's all I'm put off about because it sounds so unreal and sounds like I am getting duped. Yeah, let me know if Toren will make the Spring debut, and if the Flatbush Avenue project is underway. I actually stopped following that...cuz you know, we decided to search in a more established areas instead. And that's a decision way before this thread was even started. :) So obviously, something else put me off in the whole downtown area which has nothing to do with this thread but my decision was obviously justified.

Done! sales start to send 'closing letter'.

I have seen the Toren. I personnaly feel that it is over priced and the views sucks as compared to Oro. The only positive thing is the 25 years tax abatement. I will also anticipate around the same time next year Toren buyers will be complaining like Oro buyers are doing now for Oro with the closing date issue. Prices would go down and everyone who bought it now will have buyers remorse. Just my prediction.

JustWaiting- I received the same letter last night as well. I spoke to my attorney and he told me it doesn’t represent anything important other then the fact that they officially declared this a "condo" project.

I signed my contract May 2007. I am frustrated with the level of bullshit i have been dealing with from the sales staff and the developer’s lawyers. Since January of 2008 I have been hearing I will be closing in 30 days. I was really supposed to close in May and that obviously never occurred. I have asked for them to pay for the transfer tax which most developers do anyway. I believe all Oro buyers should get some type of discount on closing costs due to such a long and frustrating wait.

Mandy is Samantha from the sales office. Bo is John. They are both Douche Bags! Not only are they rude, they also lie. Someone can smile in your face and then still stab you in your back. I feel we have all been lied to one way or another. I was told they are having some major electrical issues and that’s what’s holding back the Temp CofO. Who knows? I don’t trust a word any of these people are saying.
You should all check your drop dead dates people. Legally you can exit as soon as 6 months after the date of your supposed closing. Mine passed and I’m thinking of getting out. I love the building, I actually like the area and see all of its potential. This is just a bump in the economic cycle. The truth is the economy will rebound.

I wouldn’t mind getting together with "real owners" to discuss our problems and see what we can collectively get.

Anyone who said they only put 5% down is lying. If that’s the case I want 5% back and if i find out this to be true I am going to the Attorney Generals office. We'll see how Mandy and Bo will feel about that.

I dont even know if we really are getting the abatement 100%. If we dont just another way to sue the developer and Prudential. Most places hedge their risk and show monthly charges with the tax abatment and without. Prudential only showed with the abatement. They have to be 10000% sure that they are going to get it or their fucked. Nuff said.

One more thing- no one will close till November/December. Thats reality. Units have not dropped by $60K. more like $5K-$10K

Mandy, based on that prediction, you will not be invited into the Torenian world of Shangri-La. Toren is the place where all prices go up and all closing dates are on time. Toren is the place where "all the women are strong, all the men are good looking, and all the children are above average."

After a difficult day in the "naked city" there is nothing like having a cocktail, putting your feet back and reading fellow Torenians pure unadulterated glee at signing the dotted line that made them proud members of the "Torenian Fan Club".

Cleanslate, I have the fullest confidence, and I mean it, that will will find a great situation in the coming months. Both your real estate knowledge and the current economic conditions are a powerful facts in your favor. Don't get greedy and wait too long. GNP numbers today weren't bad "Gross domestic product, or GDP, grew at a 3.3 percent annual rate in the April-June quarter, its fastest pace in nearly a year, the Commerce Department reported Thursday. The revised reading was much better than the government's initial estimate of a 1.9 percent pace and exceeded economists' expectations for a 2.7 percent growth rate."

Many expect this is just temporary but one never knows for sure does one?

Take care and I'll be sure to keep you posted on events in Downtown Brooklyn, the next Battery Park, Exchange Place in the Metropolitan area. :.)

OroBuyer you are wrong I am not Samantha or John. Also The bigger more expensive units pay 5% and the smaller cheaper units pay 5%. Price drops varies from $10K to $60K depending on the price of the units to my knowledge. The abatement is for sure don't worry.

That's funny. One place we went back like a few weeks ago told us the developer does not like to negotiate the price because he feels the units are already market price. When we left, we were like, fine, then we won't offer. LOL!

Then we finally visited Crest. I kinda liked the place but the agents are just rude. First time we visited, and there were other folks also, the guy just basically told the doorman that he's pretty much done showing the place for that day. He did not even talk to us. He basically ignored us and went ahead and told the doorman he was done showing and did not even acknowledge us. We even encountered someone who as she put it "he just basically told them to leave." LOL! So we tried again a few weeks after because I really wanna see the place and I kinda like the location. We were on a tour and I was getting interested, and then I asked to see one unit and she basically told us she could not show it to us because she has other people waiting. And we were just so put off after that...like why should I buy there and give you the commission, lady? And it's annoying because if they're more accommodating, then we would seriously look to buy there, esp that they said up front that the units are negotiable.

Is it true that the Oro is located in what is called the "New Manhattan?"

If so, then me and my box of wine are so there!

Sorry my mistake it should read The bigger and more expensive units pay 10% and the smaller cheaper units pay 5%.

By the way OroBuyer7 are obne of the typical crown here who thinks they know everything but are actually wrong. A good example is assuming me as Samantha. What a joker!

As for not being invited to Toren. I am happy where I will be Oro. The Oasis of serenity boasting better views then the over priced or hyped Toren.

orobuyer, if you want to call me jon you are welcome (I am not really sure what made you so mad about my post anyway). just one question: "I was really supposed to close in May": what does this mean?
"Legally you can exit as soon as 6 months after the date of your supposed closing.": how does this work?

Oh, damn! Who let Cindee in?!?! She's usually drunk, and always half crazy!

BO3- If you are in contract and you dont close on the date set within 6 months that should be your drop dead date. Check your contract and speak with you lawyer.

Mandy- Your a moron, period. No one can close in todays market with 5% or 10% down. No one i know only put down 5%. NO where does it say that you can put minimum 5% down for smaller units. Get your facts right. I do know everything and you do know nothing. 20% is what it takes to close maybe more with the market that we have. This is not an FHA building and you wont get more then 80% from conventional financing. If your not Samantha you sure act like her. The fact is the staff has lied this whole entire time about dates. No one can deny that. If someone signed a contract and 2007 their unit is not $60K cheaper today. you show me proof and i will pay you $1,000. Deal?

Show me a unit that dropped $60k in price? please.

Orobuyer7, I don't want to cause a riot! It's strictly between a trade secret between individual new buyers and Oro.

OroBuyer you are always jumping to conclusion. I meant 5% or 10% to secure a unit as booking fee. Not closing, you idiot.!

Wow you guys get worse. I just got a letter and i understand closing notices will be coming shortly after, we'll see if thats the case, but its a step in the right way. Didn't someone say that up there somewhere? Uhmm Orobuyer7, if you can't tell that Mandy's first lanquage is not english then i just get more and more frightened about someone you. Thank God it is a large building. That person is clearly not someone from the Sales staff, thats really silly. You are clearly extremely bitter and i would say not thinking super clearly, reaching even. There have been many sane people here trying to explain how these things can happen. And i think a bunch of you know quite well, that you were never been given an exact date, when do RE people ever do that? And thats why we want to hate them. But this is not going to help you, this is only making you crazy and the funny thing is that we know know the rental rumor was of course bogus and closing seem to be on the horizon. Do we love to hate and damage people or entities, etc. There is a bigger problem here and again, thank goodness its not all of you here.

tomeandguys- Look the bottom line is I was told since January you are going to be closed in 30 days by Samantha the broker, that was a clear statement from her and some other staff. I am not bitter. I love the building, I know what kind of potential this neighborhood has. The tallest building in BK (City Spire) will be built 3 blocks away. Avalon (rental) will be built a block away, Toren topped out, and Apple is building another tower. This area is going to be awesome. I am just pissed about the timing and the way that the developer and staff have been treating the buyers.Telling lies such as closing in 30 days since January and there are things wrong with the electrical grid in the building so we can get a cofo wink wink.It is frustrating. I also cannot understand how some of the posts here clearly state that the some units in the building have lost value of around $60K, I cannot find any info stating that units purchased a year ago were purchased for more than units purchased today (by $60K).The only thing i want to be reach into is my fully constructed apartment. That i do not have. If you cant understand that then i give up. I never mentioned Oro is going rental that statement is nonsense.

As someone who bought last April and was never told anything like, i gotta say i don't buy it. Sorry. That's my gut. And i'm entitled to it.
And good bye to this blog, this stuff is just too much for me. I know I have better things to be doing with myself. Thanks to some of you and thank goodness i won't ever know the identity of some others. Deleted login and Good Night.

How in the world toomeanguys were never been told about 30 day closing date from January? Everyone who bought at Oro heard it. Over and over and over again. Ha!

OroBuyer7 - your note is killing me. Nobody is closing Nov/Dec time? Are you sure about this? What happened to Sep/Oct closing? I am going to report to BBB. My loss is going to be more than $10 in mortgage extension fee alone. Plus valule drop, plus all the money I have lost in rush sales of my old home (sold at below market price thanks to Oro), temporary housing, storage fee...etc.

Orobuyer, Mandy does have a hint of S.B.

As for your comment regarding the discounts, just looks at the listing for 26C and 24C. 26C was "listed" not contracted at 920G and 24C is now asking for 854G. That is a 66G difference, just add the price difference per floor and you will get an idea of the price drop. FYI, 26C could have been in contract under 920G.

Hope that helped.

The price drop may not be the only incentive. If the developer agrees to pay the fees, then the reduction is that much more significant. A $60,000 reduction on the asking, may actually be much higher, if you also negotiate the closing fees. My guess is if you signed over a year or even 6 months ago, I doubt you were able to negotiate those high fees. Just something to think about.

If you bought to stay for a while, I think you will enjoy your place. If you bought for an investment, its going to be hard to say this was a good buy, at least for the next several years. Especially since rents are falling.

I have a perfect example of the price dop... I 24c 854k offer price.... 21c 870k contract price. Billshit!

so lets say you get your closing notice now but the number of units under contract is less than 50%, there is a chance that no lender still would approve the mortgage for the project, correct?

I spoke to my lawyer and Mtg guy yesterday... the broker said that some banks will still finance it, but in current conditions a lot wont. Plus they will expect 25-30% down. My lwayer said that the letter is good and bad - good in that they have to declare it effective to close, bad in that if they go rental there is nothing you can do about it now.... you will just be the proud owner of an overpriced apt in a rental building.

We can finance at less than 51% pre-sale. It will be analyzed by seeing how many contracts are out and the length of the sales period.

So all that is talked about, what are you going to do Oro buyers who purchased before the price drops? With all the hardship you are going through (if you are ) and price drops and closing fee negotiation are offered to new potential buyers, are you going to just sit and pay? Wouldn't you want to negotiate for your share? I tried alone - Oro developers didn't even reply. But as a group there may be a better chance to get some kind of answer. No?

"nothing you can do about it now.... you will just be the proud owner of an overpriced apt in a rental building. "

In other words, he told you and all the other whiners to stop bitching about it - which is basically what everyone is saving on this thread.

I just got call from my lawyer who FINALLY received the first instance of communique . Pending amendment approval, closing letters will be coming out in the next couple of months. Additionally, attempts at acquiring closing discounts will not be easy to come by.

"closing letters will be coming out in the next couple of months." .... THANKS. very informative =)

exactly.

I have to be out of my current place on November 5th.... things are about to get even more interesting for me. At lease it is a long weekend and we all have liquor to get us through it! Hope you all have a good holiday - we can pick this up again on Tuesday!

next couple of month?!? that translate into thousands of dollars more from my pocket for nothing and I will have to find another sublet. What happened to Sep/Oct closing time that just came out? Do developers even communicate with the sales office? I would like to suggest that the real Oro buyers here who want to get together for a discussion for a meeting. Maybe after this long weekend. I need to chill a bit and seriously think about what I will need to do.

Mandy, I got your message in response to my RSVP for the box of wine party at my apt.

But I'm not clear if you drink Merlot or Cab? Please e-mail me privately. And thanks for the offer of bringing the Cheetos, but I'm well stocked!

To everyone else, Mandy is one of my best friends so don't be mean to her. She have a LOT of power at Oro so be nice to her.

tarzan and cheetah!

oops sorry, maybe Jand and cheetah?

My two cents:

I like the Oro, think it has a lot going for it, think it's attractive and well appointed, but can't help but notice how it stagnates while other buildings nearby, namely Toren, capitalizes on any minor accomplishment (topping off, asian buyers, etc.), getting tons of great free press, while the Oro, its direct competitor sits vacant, months after occupancy was promised, getting dusty and less appealing to potential buyers by the day. The lack of a effective response to these turmoils by the developer suggests to me that there are deeper problems/issues being dealt with. If the problems really are just a series of unfortunate building code issues, timing mistakes, etc., then the developer looks that much more incompetent.

My advice to those frustrated with what's going on would be to take the planning for your collective action off this board. There is too much trolling and competition going on, too much anonymity and muddled motives. Get a good understanding of your standing vis a vis the contracts you've signed, and collectively approach the developer. Not to make empty threats, but to request reasonable accomodations (transfer tax allowance?). Offer to make any deal confidential so that the developer has confidence that a deal with you won't set a bad precendent with other buyers. Before you make this offer, you need to determine what you'll do if they refuse to negotiate. On the one hand, if you plan to close despite these problems, you may have to suck it up, however, if you in fact have a contractual out and are willing to use them, then how hard are you willing to play? Perhaps you or somebody you know has a contact at a major paper who might be interested in a story about how the housing crisis is hitting close to home, how buying new construction is riskier than is acknowledged, or about shady business practices of this particular developer (if true). The point being without a consequence to playing ball - contract voiding or bad p.r., etc. - the developer is unlikely to budge.

Some on this board have rightfully said that you took the risk of many of these problems, particularly the falling market, when you went into contract on a preconstruction unit. You can't avoid responsibility for those decisions, you may have taken a bad gamble. At the same time if beyond the state of the market, other things have been said or done in a dishonest or misleading way, then by all means you have every right to respond.

Good luck!

Yes, collective negotiation is the way to go. But before negotiating everyone must come to an agreed min. incentive for the settlement eg 5% or 15% discount to original prices. Be nice but firm. All can be worked out with a smile, truthfulnes and sincerity. We are all civilized people. Threats and meanest won't yield result except negativeness.

Mandy has a lot of power in Oro? Why and how? Who exactly is she? She does sound like she's got a vested interest in the building and not for a mere owner.

I already said that there is something fishy about "Mandy" Mr.Slate. Mandy cannot have any power in Oro, there is no Condo Board and no one lives there, unless she really is Samantha or the developer's minion? The only "power" she has is the same "power" we all have (the people in contract) and that Power is collective bargaining. I actually want to meet with "real" Oro buyers and discuss our issues in order to propose a reasonable collective bargaining tool. I have a friend at the NY Times who would love to publish a story "close to home" regarding the way we have been affected. If anyone is interested in speaking with me about ways to get a discount on closing costs or on their units please email me at Orobuyer1@yahoo.com. I really want to meet people in my building and develop a sense of community, this might be the start for all of us to get what we want.

Also, I'm sure i'm not the only person told that i was supposed to close in 30 days since Janauary.

I am very mad when you people think that I am Samantha. No I am not Samantha or spy from the developer. I am far prettier and more sophisticate then Samantha for sure!

Lets get down to real business. We need this thorn removed regarding the delay compensation if we could get one. I thinks a 5% discount on original price would be realistic for the inconveniences caused.

Oro needed the 50% quota and if we walk out they cannot get loans for other buyers and that will be detrimental to them. So collective negotiation is sensible. The way to go.

Mandy, are you going to join the collective force? As far as I remember nobody suggested threats. Venting frustration on this thread doesn't equal to empty threats to the developers. I think we all are intelligent enough to know that much. If you truly are a buyer at Oro and truly have lots of power in Oro (won't ask how and why) then maybe you should lead all these frustrated buyers including myself instead of portraying yourself as an Oro defense team.

Orobuyer7, I am in, I will email you. Glad to know that there ARE some people who won't succumb to 'that's the way it's been, suck it' mentality. I believe that there is a power in numbers. Also I have heard some cases who won against big developers with huge defense team.

Mandy, but you can confirm that you are Jonathan's girlfriend living in Toy Factory. Correct? LOL!

Did anyone hear tha Oro started sending out closing letters today and the closing will start from mid-sep? Sounded like it came out from the office today.

Why are you all picking on Mandy?

(Cleanslate, be CAREFUL with her!)

BTW, she is NOT Samantha, but she WAS able to get me in at the Oro for 3%.

Who would pay 5%??? Are you kidding me?

It might be the "New Manhattan" but no way is it worth 5%!

Stavo, I heard the same thing about the closing letters going out today. Funny that those schmucks are working today, the start of a three-day weekend.

And--as always--Mandy's right: "Threats and meanest won't yield result except negativeness."

But a box of wine will always yield a blackout. (wink wink, Mandy!)

Cindee you mean you put 3% down? I put 10% down as I was told. If I can get 7% back from what I put down I would walk away than keep paying the ridiculous amount for the mortgage extension. Can Mandy help???

Are people really paying rate lock extensions? I mean unless you locked in at a rate in the 5s it might even make sense to cancel the lock and relock again and pay to buydown. Youre essentially paying points again and this time you wont have to keep paying to extend. Just a thought.