Hi guys, New homeowners here, We closed on our first house in Brooklyn on January 22, and moved in two weeks ago. Last Saturday we noticed some water dripping from the chandelier in the dining room below the bathroom. A plumber came and assessed that the water was leaking from the bathtub above (damaged caulking no busted pipe thanks God !). His finger went through the ceiling drywall like butter... [more]
Hi guys,
New homeowners here, We closed on our first house in Brooklyn on January 22, and moved in two weeks ago. Last Saturday we noticed some water dripping from the chandelier in the dining room below the bathroom. A plumber came and assessed that the water was leaking from the bathtub above (damaged caulking no busted pipe thanks God !). His finger went through the ceiling drywall like butter and he noticed presence of mold.
An inspection report and an assessment report were done and none of them identified this problem. The previous owner never mentioned previous water damages to us.
A remediation contractor noticed that the water marks were covered-up with paint and plaster. He noticed traces of rust and built-up of calcification (we have hard water) on the chandelier.
What are my options ? soft and Hardcore
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Response by 300_mercer
almost 7 years ago
Posts: 10553
Member since: Feb 2007
What is the $ cost to fix it vs property price and your insurance deductible? Looks like a new leak as otherwise you would have noticed before. Watermarks does not mean there was mold before.
If he did (rare), then perhaps there's some remedy.
If not, then hate to say it but you may be SOL. I.e. contact your insurance company.
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Response by herbert73
almost 7 years ago
Posts: 14
Member since: Jan 2012
No, it's not a new leak, it coming from old and defective grout around the bathtub.
The contractor/remediator confirmed that they have grossly patched several areas of the ceiling up (different paint color, mastic) to hide the stains and the damages. You can even notice that they pierced some holes to drain the water of the ceiling.
My deductible is $1,000 and no, they did not signed the PD form, but just got a cost estimate and it's well above $5,000.
Should I asked my inspector why he did not look at it ?
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Response by 300_mercer
almost 7 years ago
Posts: 10553
Member since: Feb 2007
My suggestion is to file a claim with your insurance and they will figure out who is to blame - including previous owner. $1000 is very reasonable deductible. You legal cost to enforce anything on the previous owner will be much higher. By all means check with your inspector as well. I wonder what the closing lawyer representing you in this transaction has to say.
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Response by flarf
almost 7 years ago
Posts: 515
Member since: Jan 2011
Welcome to home ownership. Your insurance premiums will be sky high if you file a claim for every problem you encounter. Tread wisely.
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Response by truthskr10
almost 7 years ago
Posts: 4088
Member since: Jul 2009
Given the lengths the seller went to cosmetically disguise the issue, Im sure your contract of sale has the term "as is" somewhere in there. I would def give your inspector some grief. In the grand scheme of things, if its the only substantial repair you have, its not a lot considering your buying a used house for several hundred thousand dollars. Save the insurance claims for the bigger stuff.
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Response by front_porch
almost 7 years ago
Posts: 5315
Member since: Mar 2008
I'd turn my sights on my attorney if I were you -- it's a pretty common purchaser's rider clause to ask seller to represent that they haven't had any leaks in the last X amount of time.
ali r. (broker, not attorney)
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Response by front_porch
almost 7 years ago
Posts: 5315
Member since: Mar 2008
^^ and I don't know if what the seller did reaches a level where it's fraud -- let's go ahead and point out that seller is a bad actor here -- but I would think that your attorney should at least walk you through that possibility, and explain what the legal standards are and whether they've been violated, without charging you for the conversation.
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Response by 300_mercer
almost 7 years ago
Posts: 10553
Member since: Feb 2007
If I were to be the seller, I would say
"It is an old house, which may have leaked even before their ownership and may have been painted over several times. It is irrelevant that I may have had a leak during my ownership, which was properly fixed. Also, to my knowledge there were no leaks at the time of closing and you had the home inspected. That is the only relevant point worth discussion. The onus of proof that I sold you a leaking house is on you."
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Response by 300_mercer
almost 7 years ago
Posts: 10553
Member since: Feb 2007
I have a story to share. I was selling a condo converted unit (less than 10y old conversion) in a pre-war I owned and the buyer’s lawyer wanted me to representations about asbestos, units leaks, bed bugs in the whole building etc. I told them to check the unit at their cost, and to fk off as it a 100y old building and these issues would have existed at some point of time, and they signed the contract. The buyers needs to take some responsibility for what they are buying.
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Response by herbert73
almost 7 years ago
Posts: 14
Member since: Jan 2012
Ok , Good point about the buyer's responsibilities. Got a revised costs estimate still above $ 3K. This is only for the work dealing with the remediation. I will need to get a painter as well.
My insurance (Merchants Flexible Home Choice) does not allow me to submit claims within the first 2 months. They can apparently cancel my coverage if I do so.
I will take Ali'R's recommendation and will ask my lawyer to walk me through the possibilities. No "as is" in the contract. I still wonder why the seller saw nothing
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What is the $ cost to fix it vs property price and your insurance deductible? Looks like a new leak as otherwise you would have noticed before. Watermarks does not mean there was mold before.
Did the seller sign one of these: https://www.hauseit.com/seller-property-disclosure-form-ny-explained/
If he did (rare), then perhaps there's some remedy.
If not, then hate to say it but you may be SOL. I.e. contact your insurance company.
No, it's not a new leak, it coming from old and defective grout around the bathtub.
The contractor/remediator confirmed that they have grossly patched several areas of the ceiling up (different paint color, mastic) to hide the stains and the damages. You can even notice that they pierced some holes to drain the water of the ceiling.
My deductible is $1,000 and no, they did not signed the PD form, but just got a cost estimate and it's well above $5,000.
Should I asked my inspector why he did not look at it ?
My suggestion is to file a claim with your insurance and they will figure out who is to blame - including previous owner. $1000 is very reasonable deductible. You legal cost to enforce anything on the previous owner will be much higher. By all means check with your inspector as well. I wonder what the closing lawyer representing you in this transaction has to say.
Welcome to home ownership. Your insurance premiums will be sky high if you file a claim for every problem you encounter. Tread wisely.
Given the lengths the seller went to cosmetically disguise the issue, Im sure your contract of sale has the term "as is" somewhere in there. I would def give your inspector some grief. In the grand scheme of things, if its the only substantial repair you have, its not a lot considering your buying a used house for several hundred thousand dollars. Save the insurance claims for the bigger stuff.
I'd turn my sights on my attorney if I were you -- it's a pretty common purchaser's rider clause to ask seller to represent that they haven't had any leaks in the last X amount of time.
ali r. (broker, not attorney)
^^ and I don't know if what the seller did reaches a level where it's fraud -- let's go ahead and point out that seller is a bad actor here -- but I would think that your attorney should at least walk you through that possibility, and explain what the legal standards are and whether they've been violated, without charging you for the conversation.
If I were to be the seller, I would say
"It is an old house, which may have leaked even before their ownership and may have been painted over several times. It is irrelevant that I may have had a leak during my ownership, which was properly fixed. Also, to my knowledge there were no leaks at the time of closing and you had the home inspected. That is the only relevant point worth discussion. The onus of proof that I sold you a leaking house is on you."
I have a story to share. I was selling a condo converted unit (less than 10y old conversion) in a pre-war I owned and the buyer’s lawyer wanted me to representations about asbestos, units leaks, bed bugs in the whole building etc. I told them to check the unit at their cost, and to fk off as it a 100y old building and these issues would have existed at some point of time, and they signed the contract. The buyers needs to take some responsibility for what they are buying.
Ok , Good point about the buyer's responsibilities. Got a revised costs estimate still above $ 3K. This is only for the work dealing with the remediation. I will need to get a painter as well.
My insurance (Merchants Flexible Home Choice) does not allow me to submit claims within the first 2 months. They can apparently cancel my coverage if I do so.
I will take Ali'R's recommendation and will ask my lawyer to walk me through the possibilities. No "as is" in the contract. I still wonder why the seller saw nothing