leaving rent stabilized apt

Why don’t you move to your condo and let the landlord reclaim the property or rent it to some one else at subsidized rent? Morally, it shouldn’t be a hard decision as you have enjoyed subsided rent for long enough.

300_mercer are you a realtor?

No.

Seriously, since you have another apartment, why not give up a subsidy meant for the people who really need it.

ok thanks i am just really interested to hear from anybody who has lived in a place and called it home for a really long time and then find themselves a bit displaced. I have lived in one neighbourhood for a long time but could not afford to buy here which is why i had to consider a completely different area. I have many friends here who also moved here a very long time ago in similar situations.. Also because i am rent stabilized doesn't mean the rent is affordable regardless i have been a good tenant which is why i also was able to live here for as long as i did and that the landlord actually wanted to keep me here.

I lived on 9th St for 20 years and for almost a decade on Thompson St before that. By the time I left Greenwich Village almost all the reasons I moved there for in the first place no longer existed.

pinpin: I've also wondered if 300_Mercer and 30yrs_RE_20_in_REO are realtors working for Streeteasy. They monopolize almost every thread and seem to think they know every iota about New York real estate and seem to look down on anyone who might disagree with their ideas. That's fine if they are realtors who work for Streeteasy, but to be rude to those of us who are new to the site or to the city makes me very uncomfortable. Just thought I'd let you know my thoughts. I feel for you because your quandry is a difficult one. I'd be interested to hear how you finally figure this out.

pinpin, you should negotiate with your landlord for a buy-out.

the going rate for such a buy-out should be between $100K to $200K

pinpin this is old territory that I posted in your earlier thread. Essentially it's like the old Ann Landers question: better off to leave him or stay? Make two lists pro and con. How old are you? You will reach a point where you can no longer do the five flights. Your condo is sitting across the river, make some $ off of it. Are you doing AirBNB? Make sure you want to leave. Once you're out of that place it's ciao Manhattan.

>>>>>pinpin, you should negotiate with your landlord for a buy-out.

the going rate for such a buy-out should be between $100K to $200K<<<

He should consult an attorney first. He's in a challenging position given that he already owns another residential property. If LL were to find out about that other property, which he may if he decides to go digging during a buy-out negotiation, it could backfire if OP ultimately decides to stay in the stabilized rental. LL would have valid complaint and could seek eviction if OP has another 'home' somewhere else.

^^^^^ I should amend that to say that OP should be ok as long as he can prove the rental unit is his primary residence. But owning the other apartment does have the potential to add a layer of complexity to the matter.

Davenezia, I am simply expressing my opinion about what I believe is morally right thing to do. Other people are similarly entitled to their opinion. If you are looking for “safe space”, internet chat room is not the place. And I do not work for Streeteasy.

I don't see how my post was at all rude to pinpin, but if people feel my posts are looking down on everyone I'll just stop posting.

Davenezia, 300 merc is expressing a valid point which I agree with. I also find his posts informative and
useful. Rent stabilization is not meant to be a real estate investment. It was meant to insure affordable housing.

30, Nothing wrong in you expressing your opinion even though I disagree with you frequently.

300 and 30yrs - I love your individual posts and the back and forth between the two of you. Please keep posting.

hi, i welcome everyones opinion, i do not think of my rent stabilized situation as a real estate investment, for me it is where i have been living for 20 years, where i called home, i think real estate professionals which i am sure there are a few here on this site are looking at things from a more monetary and transactional value but moving is difficult and emotional as a renter or first time buyer. So i guess thats what i was trying to explain. Also again, there are many variables so where i am is not public housing, i am still paying rent and that rent for what i make is becoming unaffordable and so is the area. A lot of my friends who moved here in the 90's or early 2000's are either moving upstate, out of state or to another country altogether, so not many options out there for buying for someone in my situation either and what you find doesn't compare. About buy out- i never thought about this. My landlord is in his late 60's and he always said there are people calling him about his building. I have known him since i was in college. He may retire and sell the building i don't know. There are many senior citizens and families here. I am in my late 30's. I have a feeling this is not something he would want to do (buy out) but how does one even ask?

Can you even be bought out any more with the new laws in place? Don't see how...

You said your landlord has been good to you, no? If so, asking him to buy you out is disingenuous. Make your decision on the merits and don’t publicly take positions that undermine the public policy underlying rent stabilization if you really care. If you are just out for yourself and want to maximize your wealth without regard to the public policy from which you personally benefitted for 20 years, carry on with the buyout research.

ok is there anyone that reads this thread that is in a similar situation as me?
Thank you to everyone who sounds like they spend time between contracts and court.
Can i hear out from any renters or first time buyers please? Thank you!

also what is this shaming on people "benefitting from public policy" ? Do you just hate people who live in rent stabilized buildings?

Nobody is shaming rent-stabilized tenants. I personally support the public policy, which is why I am offended by those who game the system and affirmatively seek buyouts from their landlords. It is a different matter if a landlord approaches the tenant, but the situation you describe is an entitled first-world dilemma for which you are not likely to find much sympathy in a public forum.

Thank you 300 and MCR.

Something that Rent Stabilized tenants should be aware of is that Statewide Housing Security and Tenant Protection Act of 2019 effective killed most buyouts because you can no longer substantially increase rents on vacancy:
- 20% vacancy increase - gone
- Vacancy Decontrol - gone
- $2,700 rent cap for RS - gone
- Individual Apartment Improvement (IAI) rent increase - capped at $15,000 and monthly increase lowered from 1/40 to 1/168

So if you buy out a RS tenant as opposed to being able to totally renovate the apartment and raise the rent thousands of dollars a month, you can do a $15,000 renovation and raise the rent $89 a month. Hardly worth what it used to be to buy out (or even harass out) tenants. In addition most of the guys who were calling landlords like yours aren't throwing crazy numbers at them like they were as recently as a month ago.

mutlicity resident - i offended you because i just bought a house and live in a rent stabilized unit?
My landlord didn't buy me my house, nor my parents, nor my partner, nor credit or mortgage. I started working at 13 yrs and thats how i made it. I came to this country at age 19 on a full scholarship and was sponsored for employment and worked my butt off and made a career and earned money. Never had a loan, never had debt. How old were you when you started working? I paid my rent, kept the place clean and mind my own business and been a good tenant. I bought a house because i worked all my life and saved for it not because i lived rent stabilized. So go find yourself another situation to get offended by.

You offended me because you were exploring asking your landlord to buy you out. Think about it - you would be asking him to give you money for something you already want/are considering doing. You would be taking money directly from him and he has been nothing but good to you by your own admission. Rent stabilization is meant to give people who need it a stable place to live; if you want to stay in your neighborhood in the same apartment, by all means do that, but do not ask for something to which you have no legal right and would be an abuse of the public policy from which you have benefitted. Re-read your posts and my responses and this should make sense. It also rings a bit hollow when you say that you can no longer afford one of the most expensive neighborhoods on the planet and lament that you may be forced to move to a location where a large swatch of the world’s population would literally risk life and limb to live. Just not sure what reaction you are looking for from your post. I apologize if this sounds harsh; tone never translates well electronically. I really am just having a conversation.

You offended me because you were exploring asking your landlord to buy you out. Think about it - you would be asking him to give you money for something you already want/are considering doing. You would be taking money directly from him and he has been nothing but good to you by your own admission. Rent stabilization is meant to give people who need it a stable place to live; if you want to stay in your neighborhood in the same apartment, by all means do that, but do not ask for something to which you have no legal right and would be an abuse of the public policy from which you have benefitted. Re-read your posts and my responses and this should make sense. It also rings a bit hollow when you say that you can no longer afford one of the most expensive neighborhoods on the planet and lament that you may be forced to move to a location where a large swatch of the world’s population would literally risk life and limb to live. Just not sure what reaction you are looking for from your post. I apologize if this sounds harsh; tone never translates well electronically. I really am just having a conversation.

people mentioned the buy out so i asked about it, what is wrong with that? You have no idea where i live now, how much i pay, where i am moving, no clue, so i don't know why you are personally offended but honestly you are not the person to judge if i am worthy of living in a rent stabilized place or not and i started the thread to hear from others in similar situations. If you are not in a similar situation thats understood and sorry i offended you!

pinpin--I think the reason posts on this thread may come across as a tad hostile is because traditionally the RS and RC laws have been directed towards folks who are otherwise unable to afford to rent a home. When RS/RC tenants go out and purchase condos, weekend houses, investment properties and the like, it flies in the face of the original intention of the law.

Keep in mind that landlords effectively subsidize RS/RC tenants and when those tenants take advantage of the program for their own financial gain it is certainly not appreciated. One would question why someone in your position (able to afford to purchase a condo) would continue to maintain lease of a RS unit.

ok how am i using my apartment for financial gain?

Um, now I am beginning to think those of us who responded were taken in by a fake post. Or there is a language barrier. Something does not seem right here.

also no large swatch of the world’s population is interested in risking life and limb to live in NY's or NJ's worse ghettos. They just want the money and opportunities. A mother was beaten and bullied by a school kid and was told to go back to her country in NJ the other day.. She is in the hospital with several injuries. When i first moved here, two people got shot and killed in front of my building in BK, there was a kid thrown out of his mothers house, he dealt drugs, his face was slashed and he walked around with white bandages covering his face for months. The guy upstairs beat his girlfriend every night. I am privileged because i don't want to live in such a place ever? No body deserves to live in such violence. Nobody will give an arm and limb for that. I am not the one responsible for the housing crisis and the segregation of neighbourhoods in this country.

mcr/Bramstar, I do not think pinpin wants to understand that his current rent stabilized apartment can go to another needy person (to another pinpin who is in the same situation today as pinpin was 15 years back) who does not and can not afford a condo.

who does not OWN

because this sounds like somebody saying to me get the F out of your apartment - why don't you guys get the F out of yours, someone can always use someone's apt.

Just to nitpick, but technically both MCR and 300 are subsidizing pinpin's Rent Stabilized apartment:
The below market rent in pinpin's building leads to lower Real Estate taxes. Those taxes must be made up for somewhere and because of the way NYC calculates Real Estate taxes part of where it gets made up for is in increased taxes in the Coops where MCR and 300 are shareholders (NB if you asked me to come up with the exact number each of MCR and 300 were specifically subsidizing pinpin, it doesn't work like that, but in the aggregate Coop/Condo owners are paying higher taxes to make up for the lower taxes being paid by the owners of Rent Stabilized buildings who are being given a tax break because they are collecting below market rents).

pinpin,

The difference is that we own our apartment and you do not own your rental apartment, which is being subsidized by other tax payers (thank you 30 for bringing it up), and is misuse of the original intent of the rent stabilization program. You may well have legal rights not to leave your rental.

We just have different moral values. We expressed ours and you expressed yours. All a part of internet discussion board.

i am interested to hear from people in my situation or similar`, i am not interested in hearing from someone who owns his place and wants to judge other people - i really do not want to hear from you if you don't mind.

I doubt you are going to hear from anyone in your situation, but it will certainly be interesting if we do. I have done pro bono legal work for both intending immigrants and for one rent-stabilized tenant (a long time ago), and it distresses me when someone who falls into both categories gives fuel to those who want to shut the door to this country because they fear immigrants will abuse public welfare programs.

thanks for trolling

my experience is you are a troll and a bully and i don't care what you do nor what you think - i don't know why you insist on posting here, trying to prove yourself right, go to Facebook and troll someone over there about Trump or something. Go get offended by the border situation. I want to hear from someone who is in my shoes, who reads and understands what this original thread is about not some realtor/ lawyer/broker/ investor guy what part of this do you not understand.

@davenetzia i think you were right. I don't know what it is about this site and the people who have 5K+ comments on every single thing. It HAS to be a full time job. Why would anyone other than someone who gets paid for it would go out of their way to comment on every single sentence. I won't post here again ever if its just three guys and their back and forth with you. The more you try to explain your situation, the more they divert the topic and personally target you. What is this about

pinpin,
I grew up in the housing projects on the LES. After graduating college, I found a good job, applied for a mortgage and with the help of my parents savings bot a house. We vacated our apt for another family.
Your in a rent stabilized apt, which usually is better then the housing projects. I had friends who did the same but kept their housing project apt as a low cost place in the city to stay. I do not know how they morally justified that.
The basic point is, why not give someone else who is starting out as you once did a shot at a decent lower rent. You no doubt benefited, why not pass that on vs getting something more out of it ?
I would not take these comments personally. I do sense you know your on questionable grounds.

Sounds like someone was looking for someone to tell him it was ok to keep the Rent Stabilized apartment and Airbnb it to pay for it and use both apartments.

where can i complain about harassment on this site?

So you started a previous thread without disclosing till late in the thread that you were in contract and kept looking for someone to validate your buy decision. Just because we are not validating your point of view, we are not harassing you.

https://streeteasy.com/talk/discussion/44929

you guys are truly trolls. you don't read nor understand what i was originally posting about. and i am posting this for someone who may be in my position incase they ever come here. To my fellow first time home buyer / renter reading this: I find some of the threads here helpful. It is terrible when 3 dudes take over and argue laudly over you like they are drunk at some irish bar. I am asking people's experiences from transitioning to being in a long term rental situation to a first time home ownership in a completely different area and living situation and how they make the transition. Do they feel displaced? How do they feel about leaving a neighborhood they have been in so long, where they knew their neighbours and had a community to being a transplant somewhere else. How do they even begin looking with a small budget and where do they end up?I had several terrible experiences from coop to condos as when you are working with a small budget as a first time buyer you have so few buildings to choose from. You have crazy, racist boards and bad financials and corrupt managements. It is extremely tricky and you end up with not always what you want or wished for. What one does in that situation? To RE trolls here: if this doesn't ring a bell to you, don't post here, go and rant about whatever subject somewhere else and rant amongst yourselves, where you can all agree with each other and be happy. Go fight with your coop boards. leave me alone!

and if anyone has contacted streeteasy support about trolls and how to contact them please drop a line, i feel this is very serious.It is a shame because this site can really be useful for people like myself but these guys again i don't know who they are just keep harrassing you and target you and thin k this is their facebook page

My first apartment out of grad school was rent stabilized in SF; I moved out when my income exceeded the statutorily prescribed limit.

If a referendum came up in New Jersey to regulate the rental of Condominiums and severely cap the rents, force owners to renew leases, etc I wonder how pinpin would want to vote on it? (Of course he can't legally vote on such a matter because he doesn't live there.)

300,
I've owned a forum on another subject for 20 years (it's older than Facebook, YouTube, Instagram, etc) and my experience is that there are some people who come on and post questions asking for advice but in reality are only looking for validation of what they have already decided and get offended when anyone presents facts or opinions which go against their foregone conclusions.

I know. That is why i remembered the old post. I am glad that people can feel free to disagree on this forum and continue free dialogue - not just on July 4th. Happy 4th!!

BTW for those of you whose delicate sensibilities are so offended by my posts you can easily ignore me by clicking on this little flag icon ^

300 you nailed it on the head. In pinpin's earlier thread (s)he posted a lot of questions about buying without revealing (s)he was already in contract. I was going to call her on it but the thread died. Now this. pinpin is the troll. I did a lot of explaining in the earlier thread about my similar situation and referred to it here and yet she's still asking for 'people like her' to chime in. She's not worth it. 30, thanks for the tip on flag/ignore. Nobody needs this crap.

I am glad that I am not the only one who noticed that on the previous thread.

bramstar, I agree with your scenario analysis. But please note such buy-outs are very usual in NYC even during the bubble years. By peaceful leaving, pinpin is doing the landlord a big favor. You never know how many condos are suffering just because one rent stabilized apartment is not giving up. I am not always with the landlord though, if the landlord is good, the buy-out price should be lower, if not, it should be the way to punish the slumlord. As you said, the landlord can fight, but there is cost too, so negotiating a reasonable buy-out amount is a win-win situation.

I do believe housing should be affordable, but absolutely not the way they are doing in NYC.

davenezia, I think you misunderstood MC and RE, even though I personally don't feel they are too friendly to me, but they provided a lot of useful information here. I was told by an old member that during the bubble years, tons of experts including these 2 posted on this discussing board frequently. Then streeteasy shut down the board years ago.

Streeteasy quietly re-enabled the discussion board sometime back, old users slowly found out and returned. These 2 are the first to return, that's why you only see them posting everywhere. I am sure you will see some more "new" old users like them going forward, it might indicate the next bubble is not far from now.

When one's moral values coincide with one's financial profile then those "moral values" are not inherently true or moral.

These new rent laws will not benefit the poor but more likely benefit middle class people who are living in rent controlled or stabilized apartments for even much longer than twenty years. I know an attorney who grew up in a rent controlled apartment and he is about 80 years old.

To suggest to someone that he should move out of his home, rent stabilized or otherwise so a more needy person can move in is ridiculous.
My advice to pinpin is to stay in your apartment, it is your home and as far as the New Jersey apartment goes, sell it or rent it or whatever.
And yes I agree with pinpin about the trolls on this board.

>>>bramstar, I agree with your scenario analysis. But please note such buy-outs are very usual in NYC even during the bubble years. By peaceful leaving, pinpin is doing the landlord a big favor. You never know how many condos are suffering just because one rent stabilized apartment is not giving up<<<

Yes, agreed. My point was that if the landlord were to somehow want to push back against having to spend money for a buy-out he could use proof of renter's other residence to make a claim renter is not actually entitled to retain the RS unit. This does indeed happen, especially in situations where there are hold-out tenants (as in the scenario you described) and landlords go to lengths to investigate their rights to tenancy.

I think the landlord would have a difficult time questioning his tenancy. In view of the new laws, it would only make it more difficult for the landlord to win; he probably would be too nervous to start an action.

Pinpin is leaving his rent stabilized apartment of his own volition for all the reasons he noted in his original post. He was looking for camaraderie from someone who had left their longtime neighborhood due to change and he got exactly that from 30yrs, whom he then accused of being rude. Then he wanted more information about how he might shakedown his landlord (who had been nothing but good to him by his own admission and wanted him to stay) as he was voluntarily leaving. Then he started spewing non-sequiturs and mischaracterizing posts. In short, I don’t feel like I am reading the same thread as Streetsmart apparently is when she concurs in any of Pinpin’s troll characterizations, but to each her own.

Gens, pinpin did express worries about crazy, racist boards and bad financials and corrupt managements. Those are the worst nightmares most people here won't win in a fight. Very often, no one can find out such true status of a building until years after he/she moves into a new place. So even if not aiming an immediate buy-out, one should keep the RS/RC place for a while, otherwise there is no place to go if the new place turns out to be a sh1thole.

PS. Even condos are not safe, some of them are operating like a coop

Anton- thank you. My point exactly the building i bought in , i was told that the old board had the board members sign a confidentiality agreement so they couldn't speak about the building's situation which 6 years ago was very bad since then they replaced everything (the board, the management etc)
but many residents there were not aware of the actual financial situation of the building until years later when the assessments started coming in back to back because the board would not allow the residents in meetings and the management didn't say anything. These are things i never thought about when i was looking. I thought i have to save and found an apartment and that was it. I backed out on an apt in the location i wanted because of such a building and its financials. Now bought my current condo but the area and commute are issues for me even though the building is relatively in better shape to the previous one financially.

Stache’s advice in the “arrears” thread seemed spot on given your overall profile - stay in rent-stabilized apartment and stay away from ownership. Now that you have bought, you may well find out that owning is no picnic. At least if you live in the place you get that out if it; very hard to rent and make money as landlord unless you are in the business full-time.

I tried to buy a coop in the first place because i was not interested in becoming a landlord and i just want a quiet, clean place. I had a very bad experience with the first coop i applied. I went to the interview and the VP of the board was the only one i was able to meet because the board president just resigned and they just voted the entire board out. There was also no management company because the management declined to renew their contract with the building. So i met him and he started telling me about how horrible the previous board was whom all still live in the building. He said to me that the previous board harassed and made this one resident's life miserable, he was a person of color, and the only person of color in the building and he was eventually evicted. He said the old president got into a fight and punched another board member. He and the management were milking the building. So this was my first coop interview ever but i basically ran away! There was another coop and they said my income is an issue and i was rejected. So thats when i ended up looking at condos and my budget being 150K, i was either getting buildings with multiple investors or foreclosures or ended up in less desirable areas. So it has been quite a ride for me.

So after having issues trying to buy coops because you didn't do your due diligence you went ahead and signed a contract on a condo without looking at the financials.

reo - what is your problem? I am sharing my experience as a first time buyer here. Why are you so accusatory of everything? Did you know every single thing about home buying when you first started, are you going to pity everyone who is learning about this process especially in my budget? Is that why you are here commenting on this? You can not find about boards and inner workings of a building prior to contract, thats what anton is saying. The board president told me these things. About my current condo, i did look at the financials but ended up in a completely different area than where i was looking. You can't even read.

ps- in relation to the previous condo building i was in contract with, you are already in contract once you have an accepted offer according to the way NJ condo contracts are drafted. You have three days for attorney review then you are locked in. Should i ask the financials before making an offer, yes, that would be my advice to anyone who may be in the same situation because once you are in contract with all cash in 30 day closing the clock is ticking very fast. I got the financials all the ay after inspection and basically had a week do make a decision. Now, if anyone is buying a condo in NJ my advice is get the financials before making an offer. Did i make a mistake by not doing so. Absolutely. Is it ok to make a mistake. Yes because i never bought before. The moral of the story to me is how does one with a 150K go about home buying with so few options and what do you do if you want to move on from your rental situation. Again, everybody's budget is different. On this site listings are millions so probably thats what some people are used to and people like me don't even read Street easy forum and try to research things. So maybe no one here finds this experience valuable but someone in my situation may in the future.

It's interesting how you expect that someone else would learn from your experience when according to you, you keep doing the same thing over again and expecting the results to be different.

And you absolutely can find out tons of information about buildings before entering into a contract to buy a unit. But you have to try. My guess is that the reason you got "such a good deal" on the various units you attempted to purchase is that everyone else did their due diligence and begged off. As I said to you once before, when you sit down at the poker table and you can't figure out who the sucker is, then the sucker is you.

i just don't think you are capable of relating to this particular situation and i am OK with that.

and i still think you must get paid to be here all day

hope you reach 10K+ comments sooner than later

Pinpin - The sincere question remains why you did not take Stache’s advice on the “arrears” thread, or any of the cumulative advice of the experts on here. 30yrs has been consistent over the many years I have been following his posts on here about ownership not being for everyone. New York is a city where renting makes vastly more sense for the majority of residents; I just can’t understand why decided to purchase against the bulk of the advice from this forum?

i did not purchase that condo and went out of contract to go buy another one in a better situation financially . I already said this maybe four times above. It is OK if you missed it and it really is Ok if people don't relate to this at all.

*relate to this experience

Just because people disagree with you doesn't mean they don't understand the situation or can't relate. It's pretty easy to comprehend that your situation is that you keep making bad decisions and then regretting them.

i am not here for anyone to agree or disagree i am here to SHARE MY EXPERIENCE and see if anyone else is going through the same situation as someone who is NOT A REAL ESTATE PROFESSIONAL and as a FIRST TIME HOME BUYER. I think you are mistaking me for your wife or something. There is nothing here that can be argued about. If you this is what you make of this entire thread I accept that.

My question is not why did you buy the particular condo you bought, but rather why you bought at all given all the caveats against buying.

because my current apartment as i describe in the very beginning is not comfortable, it is live able. This winter it was about 50F inside. I saved this money and i wanted to move. I couldn't afford the rent elsewhere but also my rent here is also getting expensive for me.

Many first time home buyers made mistakes, so it is OK to try and fail. Sounds like Pinpin's condo is only 150K, so the impact won't be too big, just go ahead and try out.

But people should know, as an immigrant, pinpin has a much much higher chance of being bullied by managements and boards and retarded "original" neighbors. It is more reasonable for pinpin to worry about these than most of you guys here. And, not like most of you guys can even inherit at least one property, pinpin will lose the only home if god forbid things turn bad in few years (not financially, but especially harassment kind of hardship).

Maybe it is true that pinpin should not try the so-called american dream of owning a home. so sad that more and more immigrants would end up this route of being renters forever

People move all the time, sometimes because of expenses, sometimes because of loved ones, sometimes for jobs, sometimes just for new life experiences. They learn new places and make new friends. The key is to be open to new experiences. And if they move to a place that's really untenable, they move again. That's life. And it's like Tarzan swinging through the jungle. When you grab onto the next vine, you let go of the previous vine. With all of the information on the internet and sites like yelp and meet up.com, it's way easier to move and learn a new place than it used to be. It sounds like PinPin is already disenchanted with the old neighborhood; they "don't necessarily relate to hipsters eating lobsters on a Monday afternoon around the corner from me." Neighborhoods change. Now it's the hipsters' turn to enjoy the place. Their lifestyle may not be yours, but they are still people and have just as much right to live there. Fifty years ago someone might have been shocked at what PinPin pays for their apartment, or that they could afford to live in a whole apartment by themselves, or that they spend a whole dollar for a tiny bottle of water!

anton - thank you - i was sharing my experience with the coops with a friend who just finished law school and he was saying it is impossible to prove discrimination in court so it was really scary for me. To spend my lifetime savings in a home only to get evicted and be homeless. I was thinking about not buying altogether but i thought i have to start somewhere and that i should find a way and claim my "American dream" but i really was afraid that it would become my nightmare.

juxie - i am describing what is called gentrification which is different than inflation. Of course things change 50 years ago this neighbourhood didn't exist. 400 yrs ago this country didn't exist.

If 50 years ago the neighborhood didn't exist then how do you live in a prewar building?

hi troll! getting close to that 6K comments good for you!

FYI- majority of this neighbourhood was toxic land with barb wire around it and factories where now stand big condos where lobster eating hipsters live which i have no issue with.

Yeah we can see how much "no issue" you have with it.

the thread is not about me having an issue with them, i am using that as an example to explain to gentrification happening here.

pinpin, i have not read any of the previous discussion, but here are my thoughts on your first post:

1. Do you love your RS apartment? Can you see yourself living there for the next decade, happily, or at least with contentment? Do you feel "at home" when you are home? Or are you constantly trying to go places and spend the least amount of time possible at home because of all the negatives?

2. Is it possible for you to move within the building to an other unit that have the pros (RS + location) without the negatives that you describe? If you are a good tenant, you should ask the landlord, and such an opportunity might arise (every few years) and you can still stay where you are, maybe on the third instead of the fifth floor? Maybe facing a different directions? Maybe with sunlight and fresh air from the windows?

3. Do you love living in your n'hood? Does it have all the features that you appreciate and enjoy? It might have had them when you first moved it, but does it still now? How much does the n'hood (and your networks of local friends there) matter to you? Are you an introvert or an extrovert? Are you a homebody who is content with yourself on a Friday night? Or are you someone who needs a lot of friends to have a good social life to be happy? Everyone is different, so think about what you need.

4. Do you feel that your tastes, preferences, etc. have changed or evolved over the last two decades? What worked for me when I was in my 20s no longer worked for me when I reached my 40s? I wanted a different type of n'hood with a different set of amenities (i.e. more quiet). It is possible that you have outgrown your space (either emotionally or physically in that you need a more comfortable space to call home). If so, then moving to the home that you envision making you happy is the right move and you can create a new social life once you are there.

5. Do you work in the city or NJ? What is your commute? Or do you work from home? These are all important considerations, as you will regret that one-hour commute to and from work everyday if you move, and that is something to consider.

6. I have always thought of RS apartments as golden handcuffs, and some people stayed in there for too long and ended up compromising the rest of their life. As hard as it is to let go, sometimes, the best thing that can happen to you is letting go of a situation that no longer works for you. We only have one life to live, so live it happily and follow your gut feeling. Your initial post tells me that you are not entirely happy where you are, so I would seek a path forward to transition to what you need.

7. There is another option. You can consider renting another RS apartment somewhere else, in a NYC n'hood that you can afford. A larger space or a more comfortable space, with what you want and you can still stay in the city, perhaps a n'hood that is further out (Woodside, Jackson Heights, Inwood, etc.) These are all good places (depending on where you are) and you might be happier there than having to deal with the hipsters that you don't relate to. This can be a great option.

8. Your condo: do you see yourself living there for 5 years or for the rest of your life? People move up all the time, so perhaps that is where you start, with the goal of savings enough and also hopefully benefit from a profit when you sell it such that you can move closer to an apartment that you will be happy in for the rest of your life (or for a while). So, think of every move in terms of 5 years, and if you end up staying longer, that is fine, but you do NOT have to feel stuck there forever if you end up being unhappy there. Ask yourself, can I or will I be happy there for the next five years? If so, then it passes the bar (for me).

9. Do you have a partner or a family? Do you plan on having one? I don't make any assumptions and many people can be happily single. But if you do plan on starting a family and partnership, then it is important to plan ahead, as you will have to negotiate the preferences of *two* people, not one, and that might mean you can no longer afford to stay in a RS unit because of combined income limit or the space is simply too small for both, etc.

10. Think of *life as a journey* because we only live it once. I don't often post on this forum, but you seem to be torn between your old home (and life) and the new one that you envision if you move. Fundamentally, this is more than just about your apartment, so think about this in terms of your life. I know you have worked really hard to achieve what you have been able to achieve thus far over the last decades, and as you are reaching your 40, I would advise that you create or shape a life that is comfortable enough for you, so that you can enjoy the fruits of your labor during this next decade.

So, that is my reactions, for what it is worth. I raised more questions than providing answers, but I think addressing these questions - write them down, make lists of pros and cons, etc. - will help you with the rational part of your decision. As for the emotional part, I would simply say that you should trust your gut reaction - that inner voice that tells you what you need to do. Frankly, the fact that you bought a condo signals to me that you are not entirely *happy* where you are, and it is finally time for you to transition to a more comfortable and different stage of your life.

I wish you the best with this decision and while I might not always respond again after my posts (as I have a full-time job), I hope this is helpful to you. Take special care.

Way to ignore 90% of my comment! I am not talking inflation, I'm talking changes in neighborhood and lifestyle. Most tenement apartments originally housed entire families who all had to pitch in to afford the rent. It would amaze the previous tenants that a single person could afford the same space. And those "hipsters" you distain? Many of them are sharing apartments, all pitching in to afford the rent. Just like in years gone by! Neighborhoods change. The key is to be open to new experiences -- whether that means adapting to the changes in your current neighborhood or moving to a new place.

@hudsonhome thank you. This is helpful.

This thread is hilarious and pretty much sums it up with NY real estate.

To be fair, a small time landlord of RS units is getting rarer and rarer. Pinpin's old landlord who's friendly will eventually sell his building to an investor, who now own the vast majority of the RS units. Once several large investors own the majority of the RS units, the dynamics will change. RS units will become similar to HUD, and [large] RS landlords will receive direct govt contracts/subsidies.

Pinpin talks like a victim because to a certain extent they were a victim on many levels, but just because someone is a victim doesn't mean they can't also perpetuate the very same problems that they experienced. The fact of the matter is this is a tough tough place to live and stay even if you have an RS apartment. And people will judge you on or off this board.

People who design policies don't think about collaterals and unanticipated side effects.

Although I agree in general, a lot of the pressure is of due to the June 2019 RS changes. Not only from the end of purchasers no longer pulling the trigger because they can no longer turn buildings and vastly increase rents, but from owners who are a lot less likely to sell when they get offers 35% to 50% less than the number they were being thrown a couple of years ago.

30, my understanding is that RS units are largely owned by large landlords that are in turn owned by private equity firms. Similarly, poorly collateralized assets in the Midwest were sold to private equity during 2008 downturn which in turn made them into rentals. So, in effect, large private equity firms are now in the business of managing residential real estate for social welfare. Once they are fully consolidated, they'd have a very large leverage to become direct recipients of govt contracts, which would have to come eventually if RS units are not profitable. Correct?

Tenant rights activists dig their own graves. In particular, they will realize that they will end up negotiating with owners of the private equity firms, which are no other than the govt pension funds. If only grassroot legislators knew more about finance they'll be less of a "sucker" (as someone above said) at the poker table.

The Rent Stabilization Association, a landlord trade group, has long maintained that the majority of RS apartments in NYC are owned by small landlords. In my experience over the last 30 years it's rare to even get an inquiry from large private equity firms when marketing your typical 6 to 18 unit building unless there was substantial retail. There are many neighborhoods in the outer boroughs which you can walk thru and have difficulty finding any big private equity firm ownership (Jackson Heights, Corona, Woodside, Sheepshead Bay, Midwood, etc) outside of large commercial strips/shopping centers. Taking a look at how few properties are owned by the top 20 property owners might give some idea of how diversely held NYC property is:
https://therealdeal.com/issues_articles/who-owns-all-of-new-york/

Interesting---your article (which I read a while ago) is a good one. Here is another article which is a bit biased, but I think the factual information is correct:
https://psmag.com/social-justice/big-real-estate-peddles-the-myth-that-ny-rent-control-mainly-targets-small-landlords

It seems there are lots and lots of "large-ish" landlords who are not Vornado but who have 50+ buildings in NY. They probably own most of the RS units. I suppose these largish landlords are not large enough to be as protected as the top 10 because they aren't part of the holding portfolio of institutional investors, but yet aren't small and numerous enough to influence Democratic politics.

The problem I have with that article is that too many of their statistics are versions of "Rent-regulated buildings in the city account for just 9 percent of the total number of buildings owned by landlords with just one building."
This is misleading because most of those "landlords" who own one building own the building they live in i.e. their primary residence. Including those as if these people are the same types of "landlords" as even someone who owns one 6 unit building yields misleading numbers. Now, there are lots of guys who own between 5 and 30 buildings, but you'd probably be surprised how many of them have "day jobs" anywhere from law, to property management, to owning grocery stores or fast food, etc.

If you look at their chart "The Distribution of Housing Unit Ownership in New York City, 2018" it seems like what they seem "Very Large Landlords" don't own much more than 1/4 of all units, and "Very Large Landlords" plus "Large Landlords" own about 1/2 of all units. So if landlords who own 20 buildings or less own close to half of all units I think it's safe to say the majority of landlords are small landlords.