George: What you pay?

What= whatever

“whatever assumptions” I mean. Sorry.

HOA is just too high.

That is normal for a doorman large condo. Smaller condos even higher. Look at some new developments HOA.

I am so following this game and hoping George replies. I think George would be well-served looking by looking at Sutton/Beekman area because I am just like Mrs. George, whereas my husband is like George, who does not appear to assign a premium to control over decoration and management of one’s “home.”

Ha. We indeed are having some great discussion with bulls, bears and people with varied views primarily based on $ price per sq ft category. George does not like coop’s unfortunately.

At some point, the price differential might sway him. Coops are interesting because in theory they make sense. The problem is that the further you get from the founders, the more likely preferences and values diverge. The one we bought into operated for a few generations on word-of-mouth referrals. We are now in a transitional phase. It will be interesting to see where the building lands, but for our part, we bought to hold shares indefinitely because we like the building regardless of whether anyone else does.

There are many easy going coop’s as in 20-30 percent down and mortgage / maintenance payment of 1-2y in reserve, reasonable income from normal job / business to afford the place, and no obvious signs of questioning the existing status quo in the interview. I wish Streeteasy made it a standard field for all coops. That will put pressure on the boards who are outliers. Our non-doorman coop with oversize apartments has never rejected any one and a couple of listing in last two years sold relatively fast with one being an estate sale.

But only Mrs George wants to buy. She will win as the family accumulates a bit more savings from George’s investment prowess.

I think this unit is too obviously a combo with pretty bad architecture (that kitchen hurts my brain) which would probably sell for more decombined. As such I think it's hard to value either for sale or rent which makes a comparison not very meaningful.

300 - what would you pay?

It is in a fair condition with minor updates needed, will make a good home for value-oriented family needed many bedrooms, and I only like to buy horror shows for my hobby cum business.

If you need many bedrooms for many children, I'm not sure how this is superior to other 3-bedroom offerings. The "guest suite" is on the other side of the apartment from the rest of the bedrooms and shares a wall with the living room. I could see it working for somebody who needs two bedrooms for the kids and has an au pair or other live-in help.

But I'd also assume the updates required are more than just minor, since we have only a partial shot of the kitchen and no pictures from three of the bathrooms. What they do show looks dated.

Usually the old kid 8-10 year will take the guest room and many people have extended family visits from places like China. Home office is huger bonus and so is rev area close for the bedrooms. Finished are clearly oriented for a value oriented buyer. Bathroom seems perfectly clean and usable. Kitchen is fine too. One can spend $100k to do selective changes like repaint, put a coat of poly on the floors, change some bathroom gold finished faucets, upgrade/reface kitchen cabinets etc. This will become you mid-end luxury rental. Even retile a bathroom. Will I live with these finishes? No? But I put a premium on nice finishes like subzero vs Blomberg fridge. Place as itself is perfectly livable.

Just not a lot to love about this place for me. I think if you're going to purchase, you need to either love the home or the location. Personally I don't connect to either here. Perhaps with some negotiating and a commission rebate, you can get somewhere that makes sense for someone that's going to hold 10 + years. And if you're a family buying a large home like this, staying long-term should not be an issue.

Two of my kids were born in the city in the early 80s. Many of our friends owned their homes back then and still own their homes. These are people that like the idea of long-term stability, and the idea of a family home.

You could rent this: https://streeteasy.com/building/177-east-75-street-new_york/6a

Fair comparison / comment (if you are not looking at it purely from return on capital point of view). The floor and light is much higher/better for 460 East 79th.

Any you probably know, rental building square footage is inflated by 10-20 percent.

What's a "hobby cum business?"

I buy really crappy apartments and re-develop high end (new development eqt on the stuff which can be changed). Some value added multifamily nationally.

Gotcha

Keith, Also the rental listing has only 8 foot ceilings vs 460 E. At least 5-10 percent premium for that for a large apartment.

I ran this through my comps spreadsheet. It's comparable in total monthly cost to some brownstones with private gardens and much better locations, even when I take my 4% cost of capital charge for the cost of the extra downpayment.

The location here is absolutely terrible - remember, there's no 79th St 2nd ave subway.

It's also a lot more space than I need, which is why a 2-family or 3-family brownstone tends to perform better in my spreadsheet. If we really need the fourth bedroom, we can stop renting it out when it's a separate apartment.

I don't discount much for the headache of having tenants. Mrs. George's family has been in the landlord business for a century and they have the scars to prove it (including a gunshot wound).

I'd be a buyer of the $2M to $2.5M places in Beekman/Sutton before I'd be a buyer here, even at $2.5M.

BTW, the quality of the finishes etc is perfectly adequate for my taste. Without photos of the bathrooms, I probably wouldn't do a lot of reno.

Makes sense. If you have some expertise, right routine maintenance / repair / renovation contacts, and patience to manage rentals in your townhouse yourself and you do not account for cost of that time, you can get close to 4% for townhouses with owner duplex in good clean condition (without fancy reno) and the rest rentals with 1 or 2 two of them rent stabilized as no one will buy them for single family conversion with current rent laws.

I forgot to mention expertise in minimizing income taxes by somewhat creative expense accounting in a rental building.