Separating / Uncombining 2 units

Are there two kitchens as per DOB records? Usually DOB does not permit combining units without removing one of the kitchens. If there are two kitchens, my best guess is that you do not need to file anything and replace the door with wall. Tax records and utility bills have to be separate.

Technically, there needs to be fireproof wall when you replace the door but not sure DOB has any way to know if you still have two kitchens as per DOB.

There's something funny if someone got an Alt type 2 to combine 2 units with the only work done being a doorway between 2 units. Was more proposed to get the permit and then not executed?

with the new additional mansion taxes i'm surprised we're not seeing more of this

If the two units are being sold to the same buyer, mansion tax applies to the total amount. Hence, some people spread out the closing.

Each of the 2 units have a kitchen. DOB approved the work as is, just a door between the 2 units.
Yes, currently real estate taxes and utility bills are separate
So if a wall replaced the doorway, it can be sold as 2 units? The original DOB filing becomes irrelevant?
Who would one reach out to confirm this? An architect? An expediter? An online real estate message board? :)

If both apartments are sold to one buyer, what time frame is needed between sales to be considered seperate sales?
Thanks

Your lawyer. Some times, the buyer’s lawyer may go through old alt2s and force the seller to undo the merger - which will take an architect, Special Inspection for fire rating, and an expeditor. Can be done in 2 weeks at less than 10k cost.

Time between the sale is all dependent on the buyer’s title company’s interpretation. If you ask, they will always ask you pay more as they like to be very conservative.

300_Mercer, thanks for all your responses.
Just trying to get classification. In your original response, you write that closing up the wall would be all that is required.
Now more recently, you write, filling and reversing the alt 2 is the way to go.
So if I understand correctly, if for whatever reason, both buyers lawyers were lax, we could sell each without undoing the filing. But if we wanted to do it correctly, we should undo the filing with the DOB.
Is that correct?
Thanks

All depends on how savvy the buyer’s lawyers are and $ value. If it is $5mm property, you need to fix it properly as buyer will likely have good lawyers. $1mm property, who knows. If latter, I personally would wait till some one asks. It can be done in a couple of weeks and $10k Max.

From my not-a-lawyer don't-take-this-as-legal-advice perspective, the party most likely to be a stickler is buyer's lender. The bank is probably going to indicate what protections they want on the ... de-combination? separation? ... whatever the word is, as part of their commitment letter. If buyer is all-cash, then the party most likely to be a stickler is buyer's attorney.

Ali, Bank does not research DOB filings. Tax lots are already separate.

If we tried to rent or sell as 2 separate units, would the condo association/management company question anything as they are aware of the combination?

Unlikely. As a start, you put up a wall first instead of the door and separate the keys with the doorman etc.

And what about the title company? Would they have an issue?
Thanks

They are mostly too sloppy to research something like this as title is still clear but you need to talk to your lawyer and get a good one.

Was it ever financed as a combined unit? I think that might be the likely tipoff.

There is a mortgage on one of the apartments.
I've now spoken to some lawyers that say to sell the units, the process will need to be reversed with filing an Alt 2 permit to uncombine.
An architect told me the process should takes months, between condo approval, filing with the city, the contractor getting permits and the closing of the permits and the file sign off.
If you have thoughts as to why the process should be quicker, please let me know.
Thanks!

Is this the same architect who did the combination? Any one competent with good expeditor will get it done in less than 1 month. Also ask the same lawyers if they check for previous Alt2s or just for open permits. Most will only check open permits.

I will be very interested in what the lawyers say will be the hick-up and which party may say that there is an issue.

+1 on all 300_mercer comments, especially the last one. Here's the sad reality from my extremely limited and amateur perspective: Nothing in NYC works the way it should. In my limited experience, lenders, buyers, sellers, managing agents are not as diligent as the black letter of contracts, laws or regulations might otherwise prescribe. I am disgusted by the "let's see what we can get away with" attitude that has pervaded many aspects of my personal NYC real estate experience. Full disclosure: I am from the Midwest and have previously been openly mocked on this site (and likely appropriately so) for my Midwestern values.

I respect Midwestern values!!

@300_mercer - I am glad someone in NYC does. Seriously, every time I advocate doing things the “right” way on any front, all I get is pushback from those more experienced that I can have at it, but it is a waste of time, and with the most recent issue, they were indeed right! (had to do with a DOB issue)

NYC is too regulation heavy and the process to comply is very tedious and slow. Some of the regulations are unnecessary. These are the reasons many in NYC do not necessarily comply with all regulations. I try to comply as much as possible but when I know the regulation is silly, I am very tempted not to comply. In this case, DOB wants fire separation between apartments instead of the door which a contractor can do for $2k. So the regulation is right but the cost and time to comply is too onerous. So I can understand why someone may not want to go through the paperwork but fully meet the fire separation standards.

My experience is there are so many rules here because people keep coming up with scams that must be addressed. I am also former Midwesterner.

It is not just the abundance of rules but time consuming and costly process to comply. In mid-western smaller city or town, I imagine one can just go to DOB equivalent and get the separation sorted out in less than a week for a condo.

And then you have "self certification" and how DOB is relatively toothless when it comes to enforcement so it's left up to buyers in transactions.

@30yrs - Boom! The self-certification is the problem. What is a coop to do if there is an entire renovation crew led by an architect who flat out lies? Beware of “Starchitects.” If they have achieved a result that nobody thought possible, ask the tough questions.

Yes- the original architect is the one now who is quoting the 3-4 month time frame. Is there an architect you recommend?
If the papers are not filed now, can the new unit owner make some future claim on the 2nd apartment- or re-open the doorway, creating some major problems in the future?