Co-op owner here, left a tap on in the bathroom sink and it flooded our bathroom, which then leaked downstairs and damaged the downstairs neighbor's apartment (oops). Looks like they've filed a claim with their insurance company, and now they want to get in touch with my insurance company. I think there may be a degree of co-op building liability here, because it was an original building bathroom,... [more]
Co-op owner here, left a tap on in the bathroom sink and it flooded our bathroom, which then leaked downstairs and damaged the downstairs neighbor's apartment (oops). Looks like they've filed a claim with their insurance company, and now they want to get in touch with my insurance company.
I think there may be a degree of co-op building liability here, because it was an original building bathroom, the sink drain (which the co-op is supposed to maintain) was half blocked, and the sink had one of those holes at the back which is supposed to prevent this, possibly also blocked / ineffective... not the mention the question of whether the bathroom floor waterproofing was adequate, in good repair, etc.
As an aside, the building board and management have been spectacularly unhelpful and negligent for many years, so I'm not inclined to do any more than the minimum to help them out here.
My concern is that if I put them in touch with my insurance company, they'll just roll over and pay out the claim as the easiest thing to do, and then I end up with a claim history / increased rates.
Is the anything much I can do to defend this, or split the liability with the building itself if at all possible? Can I trust my insurance company to pursue those options, or are there things I can do to assist?
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Response by George
over 5 years ago
Posts: 1327
Member since: Jul 2017
This is an extraordinary post. OP is worried about his insurer doing the right thing and hopes they won't.
This accident is 100% your fault. You left the tap on. You were negligent in not turning it off. Your negligence is the "proximate cause" of your neighbor having suffered a loss. And your response is to be a d!ck.
If your neighbor were to be a d!ck like you, they would sue you and the building and let the courts sort it out, at great expense along the way. Then the costs will escalate quickly, possibly beyond your liability coverage if you're a cheapskate who buys minimal coverage, meaning that your neighbor could garnish your wages and bank accounts and even foreclose upon your shares in order to collect the judgment.
Be glad you have an insurer who will pay this very valid claim to keep your a$$ out of court. Whose rates will rise as a result? Mine and everyone else's whose premium dollars are pooled with yours to pay the claim for your negligence. You're in a good position; don't mess it up. Let your insurer pay, then send them a thank-you letter.
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Response by 300_mercer
over 5 years ago
Posts: 10570
Member since: Feb 2007
Bryant, Your insurance will sort it out and determine who pays. You have no choice but to provide the neighbors your insurance details. Otherwise their insurance company will come after you. These issues are dealt with much easier insurance to insurance as they have the expertise.
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Response by Aaron2
over 5 years ago
Posts: 1698
Member since: Mar 2012
" the sink drain (which the co-op is supposed to maintain)"
Unless there is some arrangement in your proprietary lease whereby the super is required to come by on a schedule to check the drains, you might also be negligent for failing to notify them that the drain was partially blocked. If this is the P or S trap under the sink, that's generally on you. Your failure to keep the drain in operable condition (or notify) would further indicate your culpability in the situation.
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Response by bramstar
over 5 years ago
Posts: 1909
Member since: May 2008
Also most proprietary leases dictate that anything within your unit is your responsibility. That means floor tiles, sinks, bathtubs, toilets, etc. So it does not matter whether the sink is 'original' or not. It is up to you to maintain it. If it breaks, or you do something dumb like leave the tap running and cause a flood the responsibility for damage is entirely yours.
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Response by davenezia
over 5 years ago
Posts: 132
Member since: Sep 2018
Of all the ignorant posts on this site I've read, this one takes the cake. If the owner had left the tap running because of an unannounced water shut-off and then inadvertently thought he had turned the tap off instead of on, I could understand this. But he (she) wants to blame everyone else for his stupidity/negligence. Who in God's name would expect a super to come up and inspect his/her drain other than a Park Avenue resident who pays $20K monthly for maintenance, and then even it would be ridiculous to make that assumption. This is a case of "it's everyone else's fault, not mine." He/she should apologize to the downstairs neighbor and bring a checkbook.
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Response by UptownSpecialist
over 5 years ago
Posts: 139
Member since: May 2013
This is a common misunderstanding by far too many owners in this town. The sink drain is your responsibility- not the co-op's. While accidential, damage done by leaving the tap on is also your responsibility. Get your insurance company to pay- pay the increased premium and realize you made a mistake.
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Response by steve123
over 5 years ago
Posts: 895
Member since: Feb 2009
Being on a condo board and reading posts like these make me question continuing to live in condo/coops where you are likely below/next to people like this.
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Response by instantkarma2011
over 5 years ago
Posts: 14
Member since: Nov 2013
Finally something we can all agree on... bryantpark is a real asshole
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This is an extraordinary post. OP is worried about his insurer doing the right thing and hopes they won't.
This accident is 100% your fault. You left the tap on. You were negligent in not turning it off. Your negligence is the "proximate cause" of your neighbor having suffered a loss. And your response is to be a d!ck.
If your neighbor were to be a d!ck like you, they would sue you and the building and let the courts sort it out, at great expense along the way. Then the costs will escalate quickly, possibly beyond your liability coverage if you're a cheapskate who buys minimal coverage, meaning that your neighbor could garnish your wages and bank accounts and even foreclose upon your shares in order to collect the judgment.
Be glad you have an insurer who will pay this very valid claim to keep your a$$ out of court. Whose rates will rise as a result? Mine and everyone else's whose premium dollars are pooled with yours to pay the claim for your negligence. You're in a good position; don't mess it up. Let your insurer pay, then send them a thank-you letter.
Bryant, Your insurance will sort it out and determine who pays. You have no choice but to provide the neighbors your insurance details. Otherwise their insurance company will come after you. These issues are dealt with much easier insurance to insurance as they have the expertise.
" the sink drain (which the co-op is supposed to maintain)"
Unless there is some arrangement in your proprietary lease whereby the super is required to come by on a schedule to check the drains, you might also be negligent for failing to notify them that the drain was partially blocked. If this is the P or S trap under the sink, that's generally on you. Your failure to keep the drain in operable condition (or notify) would further indicate your culpability in the situation.
Also most proprietary leases dictate that anything within your unit is your responsibility. That means floor tiles, sinks, bathtubs, toilets, etc. So it does not matter whether the sink is 'original' or not. It is up to you to maintain it. If it breaks, or you do something dumb like leave the tap running and cause a flood the responsibility for damage is entirely yours.
Of all the ignorant posts on this site I've read, this one takes the cake. If the owner had left the tap running because of an unannounced water shut-off and then inadvertently thought he had turned the tap off instead of on, I could understand this. But he (she) wants to blame everyone else for his stupidity/negligence. Who in God's name would expect a super to come up and inspect his/her drain other than a Park Avenue resident who pays $20K monthly for maintenance, and then even it would be ridiculous to make that assumption. This is a case of "it's everyone else's fault, not mine." He/she should apologize to the downstairs neighbor and bring a checkbook.
This is a common misunderstanding by far too many owners in this town. The sink drain is your responsibility- not the co-op's. While accidential, damage done by leaving the tap on is also your responsibility. Get your insurance company to pay- pay the increased premium and realize you made a mistake.
Being on a condo board and reading posts like these make me question continuing to live in condo/coops where you are likely below/next to people like this.
Finally something we can all agree on... bryantpark is a real asshole
Amen