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Potential Issues - Alterations

Started by Krolik
almost 5 years ago
Posts: 1370
Member since: Oct 2020
Discussion about
A house posted is posted for sale as a 3br, but turns out one of the bedrooms used to be a garage. No alteration was filed with the city. What are the possible issues? Is bank not going to finance it? Is the city going to prevent closing or fine the seller or the buyer?
Response by INTBuyer
almost 5 years ago
Posts: 150
Member since: Apr 2013

DOB is not going to get involved in your closing but you could be subject to a violation for the condition. You could be issued a violation for occupancy contrary to the Certificate of Occupancy (or Department records if no C/O) or even work without a permit, which would carry a hefty civil penalty when you file to legalize the condition (in addition to the OATH penalty). All of this notwithstanding any other code violations that existing because of the conversion or elsewhere on the property, for which additional violations could be issued.

If the violations get issued before closing, your bank may not want to lend, so then you'd have to pay cash or find another bank that cares less about the violations.

Best to have the seller legalize or restore to prior legal condition before closing.

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Response by Krolik
almost 5 years ago
Posts: 1370
Member since: Oct 2020

Thank you! What is the magnitude of these fines? few hundred dollars? tens of thousands?

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Response by INTBuyer
almost 5 years ago
Posts: 150
Member since: Apr 2013
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Response by Krolik
almost 5 years ago
Posts: 1370
Member since: Oct 2020

Thank you!
How does owner / bank / city find out about existence of a violation? Is a real estate attorney able to figure this out during diligence?

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Response by INTBuyer
almost 5 years ago
Posts: 150
Member since: Apr 2013

Violations can be identified by anyone by observation and inspection of records and the premises A violating condition exists regardless of whether a violation is issued or not. A prudent property owner does not rely on the AHJ to identify violating conditions. Perhaps considering hiring and engineer or architect to opine on the issues.

You should proceed with the transaction of a non-compliant property at your own peril.

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Response by Krolik
almost 5 years ago
Posts: 1370
Member since: Oct 2020

Got it - so an engineer should be able to compare existing premises and city paperwork. Thank you very much!

The real estate agents here don't seem to have information or are vague on purpose. For example, told me that there are "approved plans" to expand the house, but refused to send me these plans and could not tell me who approved them.

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Response by INTBuyer
almost 5 years ago
Posts: 150
Member since: Apr 2013

Why not start with checking with the DOB on what was approved and when? They have public website.

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Response by Krolik
almost 5 years ago
Posts: 1370
Member since: Oct 2020

Thanks - I have tried with mixed success. The house is old, and the records are old, so I am not sure what it is that I am looking at. Did not find permits issued in last 20 years. House has 3 "recent" complaints (1 for illegal br in the garage, and two for operating an illegal bed and breakfast) all resolved in favor of the owner.

Here is the house (sorry, it is not on SE) https://www.zillow.com/homes/3-hillcrest-court_rb/32322318_zpid/

Listed as a 3br, in reality, I think it might be a legal 1br. Conflicting data about number of square feet (looks like it is under 1k square feet without the garage and basement included, but listed as 1,170 Sq Ft).
There are some rooms added in the partially finished basement with separate entrances that they might have counted as bedrooms and bathrooms. There is also a garage that appears to be used as a room.

The house was purchased in 2002 for $330k, now asking almost $900k.

To mirror the other thread, what will this house sell for?

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Response by stache
almost 5 years ago
Posts: 1298
Member since: Jun 2017

Anyone correct me if I'm wrong but DOB frowns on illegal toilets in particular.

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